pld got overbuffed but the drk feel nerfed to hell ...

hi when i started playing stormblood my paladin was lvl 50 and my dark knight 42.

When i tried my paladin for the first time ive been amazed about how strong this class is now... i mean cover now protect from magical dmg and blocking too. shield bash now last 6 sec at every lvl wich is very fun since you can do super big pull in very low lvl dungeon and stun every monsters for 9 secs and also the new lvl 46 aoe is such a satisfying change.

now im lvl 67 with my paladin and im amazed about how much utility this tank have compared to others. Cover divine veil clemency invervention and the lvl 70 spell look pretty strong too

then i leveled my drk to lvl 52 and i feel like everything got nerfed on it

blood price got nerfed hard
unleash is nerfed hard
souleater got nerfed hard
no more stun until lvl 40 since provoke rampart and convalescence are mandatory
actually i also lost my dot and 3 meh defense buffs ( foresight awareness and dark dance ) but even thought they werent that great i think they were still useful during big pulls in low lvl content ...

honestly the drk was by far the most fun to play tank at low lvl but now i think this class is ridiculously weak compared to the pld wich has been really overbuffed while the drk and the warrior has been nerfed ...

DRK before Blackest Night is not a lot of fun.

But there are at least the toys of Salted Earth / C&S / Plunge / Sole Survivor / Abyssal Drain / @ lvl60 to keep you from absolute boredom.

But @ lvl 50 and below,

DRK is as enjoyable as chewing on a handful of buckshot.

It is ironic that the previously best Dungeon crawl tank is now the worst. 50/60 & leveling roulettes I am now running as PLD for the fear that I'll be thrown in a lvl50 or lower, which is just god awful as DRK compared to the other two tanks - both in performance and play experience.

WAR isn't as fun as it use to without Bloodbath, but that is short of what has become of DRK 50 and under.

The problem with PLD/DRK balance, is that while they rightfully fixed all of the core mechanical problems with PLD, they also drastically buffed its potencies/percentages across the board, which has proven to be overkill and has rendered DRK pretty much wholly behind PLD in every possible category. Had they tuned DRK's DPS to be slightly higher than PLD given its weaker raid utility and raid mitigation, things would look a lot better right now.

These numbers are arbitrary/just an example, but basically what we have now is -

PLD: 2900 DPS, best utility
WAR: 2900 DPS, worst utility
DRK: 2800 DPS, medium utility

What we should have is -

PLD: 2900 DPS, best utility
WAR: 3100 DPS, worst utility
DRK: 3000 DPS, medium utility

Leveling DRK so far really hasn't been that bad. Tanking is easy. Learning the dps rotation (minus the blood spenders which I haven't unlocked yet) has been fun.

Until you hit lvl 68, DRK is very lackluster.
At 68 it's better. When you reach 70 it's got a whole new mechanic involved which makes it a much better job.

Yoshida stated in an interview that balance was primarily based on level 70 so I'm not suprised that DRK feels so half-assed before level 70.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Fury

Until you hit lvl 68, DRK is very lackluster.
At 68 it's better. When you reach 70 it's got a whole new mechanic involved which makes it a much better job.

Yoshida stated in an interview that balance was primarily based on level 70 so I'm not suprised that DRK feels so half-assed before level 70.

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But how much time are we going to spend playing 70 content?

In ARR, you'd do your 50 dailies, maybe try your hand at Tower raid or coil, or hard primals, get roped into helping FC members with sub-50 content, do a leveling roulette (sub-50) for tomes or level an alt class.

In HW, you'd do your 60 dailies, maybe try your hand at the Mhach raid or Alexander or extreme primals, get roped into helping FC members with sub-60 content, do a leveling roulette (sub-60) for tomes or level an alt class.

In SB... I think we know how this is going to go.

Would it be so game breaking to scale down your weapon skills themselves, rather than outright remove them in low level content like most MMOs do?

DRK is very fun at 70 and I do believe that that is what matters. But I am leveling WAR as fast as I possibly can because I refuse to take DRK into any roulette that has a chance of putting me in content that is not lvl 70. The idea of queuing for 50/60 or leveling roulette on my DRK makes my skin crawl.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Daniel_Fury

Until you hit lvl 68, DRK is very lackluster.
At 68 it's better. When you reach 70 it's got a whole new mechanic involved which makes it a much better job.

Yoshida stated in an interview that balance was primarily based on level 70 so I'm not suprised that DRK feels so half-assed before level 70.

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Even at 70 it still feels half assed. It's like they realized at the last second they took away most of the mitigation, utility and DPS and threw it all into one ability with a short cooldown to make up for it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RyuujinZERO

But how much time are we going to spend playing 70 content?

In ARR, you'd do your 50 dailies, maybe try your hand at Tower raid or coil, or hard primals, get roped into helping FC members with sub-50 content, do a leveling roulette (sub-50) for tomes or level an alt class.

In HW, you'd do your 60 dailies, maybe try your hand at the Mhach raid or Alexander or extreme primals, get roped into helping FC members with sub-60 content, do a leveling roulette (sub-60) for tomes or level an alt class.

In SB... I think we know how this is going to go.

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I dont disagree with OP's statement.
The job is a mere empty shell of its former self before level 70.
I really dislike the feel of the job at these levels.

However, I really enjoy level 70 dark with strategic shield placement and dishing out tonnes of blood spillers for using the shield correctly. This a matter of opinion and there will be many who don't like this about DRK.

Humpty Dumpty was top heavy too.

Wanted to add though that I disagree with the topic Title: that PLD was overbuffed. Mostly they got just exactly what they had needed + some more flavor utility - much of which was a long time coming (tho the ease in which they can ranged Fell Cleave, and combo potencies up.. again), but the same necessities/needs didn't happen with DRK/WAR.

There may be a little bleed-over with PLD's current state, but I think their condition should be a threshold to raise DRK and WAR to, not a situation where PLD needs to be nerfed down. Especially with tank damage being reduced all-around,

I think there is a lot of exagerations and bad faith about pld dps and general balance on the official forum, if you go check fflogs you'll see that pld dps is basically the same has drk, and war is slightly ahead of both of the others. (I even still see people saying pld have 30% more dps than war/drk...ridiculous)
If all you need to do is buff drk and war dps by something like 5% to come to a good balance, then you can't call pld "overbuff". And like Xenosan said, SE have a lot of space to buff tanks dmg if they want after the overall reduced tank dmg in SB.

Even if it's clearly not perfect, at least there's no tanks in the same state pld was at the start of 3.0, that's a good thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xenosan

Humpty Dumpty was top heavy too.

Wanted to add though that I disagree with the topic Title: that PLD was overbuffed. Mostly they got just exactly what they had needed + some more flavor utility - much of which was a long time coming (tho the ease in which they can ranged Fell Cleave, and combo potencies up.. again), but the same necessities/needs didn't happen with DRK/WAR.

There may be a little bleed-over with PLD's current state, but I think their condition should be a threshold to raise DRK and WAR to, not a situation where PLD needs to be nerfed down. Especially with tank damage being reduced all-around,

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All of the new stuff from 60-70 was absolutely needed and fixed pretty much all of the problems with PLD. When I saw all these things from the media tour I was excited for them.

When I saw all the potency changes and recast time cuts, I kept thinking as I scrolled through the ability list "any time now I'm going to stop seeing higher numbers... surely the next tooltip won't be buffed... nope... +10 potency... +20 potency... +10 DoT potency... recast cut by 30s..."

I'm sure any WAR or DRK main that looked through these changes before looking at the changes to their own job were insanely let down. So much stuff was removed that the 60-70 stuff should have been *epicly* more powerful to make up for all those losses, but it really wasn't, and at best was a +/- 0/0 type of deal.

They did not need 10-20 potency added to literally every single weaponskill/DoT they had, or FoF's recast cut to 60 seconds. They also didn't lose a single damaging ability whereas WAR/DRK lost several and therefore were operating at a deficit at 60, whereas PLD still had everything.

Still, don't nerf, buff. Since all that stuff is here to say it shouldn't be surprising that DRK/WAR mains are asking for proper buffs to their DPS to even out the fact that they removed 90% of their raid utility and gave it to PLD instead.

Atm fflogs result is not real measure because all tanks stats all over place some parces use str acc some full fending. So when they do something about that fflogs results should be taken whit grain of salt.

The order in which DRK acquires skills is horrific. It ought to get TBN at level 50, if you wanted to make gameplay better.

i saw many replies who said that pld isnt overbuffed but the drk and warrior only need a dps buff . to be honest i think a dmg buff to others tanks is not enough since the pld is by far the most solid tank and have WAY MORE utility than the two other jobs and from what i heard the dps isnt weak anymore

also i dont want the pld to be nerfed but i want to see the warrior and the drk getting some serious buffs

the new paladin is really awesome but when i play the drk or the warrior i get frustrated because i actually feel like the pld is 10 times stronger than them at every lvls

DRK defensive kit needs to be adjusted. However leveling DRK is not fun at all until lvl 68. And any dungeon under lvl 60 is a nightmare of boredom

You have the right of it. It can work fine with Paladin staying the way it is, they just need to buff drk and war. It makes no sense for the other two to do the same damage with much less utility, so buff up their damage. Or alternatively buff up drk's and at least return War's utility.

Most DRK/WAR mains are simply asking for potency/percentage buffs to their DPS and in DRK's case, mitigation, instead of utility because this is what the devs are likely to respond to. Based on history, they are far more likely to buff our DPS and numbers than they are to reinstate old additional effects or add whole new effects/abilities mid-patch. Since our utility is likely to be set in stone the most reasonable thing to ask for is a (large) DPS buff.