Victory is based on the number of healer in the alliance.

Frontline:

One healer is weak, more than two is too powerfull.

Some alliances doesn't have a single healer where some others may have 7 or 8 in it, when that's happend you'll know from the start who will win.

Having more than 2 healer in your group almost garanties you access to adrenaline buff for your group (enhance attack and adrenaline boost) making it even more difficult to fight against thoses, it is not uncommon to see an army of ppl with that buff when they got to much healer in their group.

Either put a limit to how many can be healer in a group or try to Distribute properly the healer in both nations.

That also mean make it unable to switch job in the instance.

Would agree. Frustrating to be on a team that actually has too many healers as a healer when others are struggling. I want to say it's deliberate to entice people to swap on the fly since most people have a healing job at 30 (AST being a free 30 for a start) but yeah.

It would be nice if you could move people between groups in the alliance, a feature WoW had in PVP a good decade ago. But sometimes the raw damage of a DPS-heavy team can be very effective. I solo healed the other day and had more healing done than the multiple healers on the enemy teams by a long way (it helped that my team was great). We crushed them.

I imagine we will see some job balancing soon though.

That's something they should have expected when they added XP to PvP. But another idea to let people who need xp for one of their job switching to healer if needed would be to tie the reward to the job you entered FL. Because if you add another matchmaking to FL, be sure it will die immediately, even if XP was twice as how it is now.

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Originally Posted by Nexxus

Frontline:

One healer is weak, more than two is too powerfull.

Some alliances doesn't have a single healer where some others may have 7 or 8 in it, when that's happend you'll know from the start who will win.

Having more than 2 healer in your group almost garanties you access to adrenaline buff for your group (enhance attack and adrenaline boost) making it even more difficult to fight against thoses, it is not uncommon to see an army of ppl with that buff when they got to much healer in their group.

Either put a limit to how many can be healer in a group or try to Distribute properly the healer in both nations.

That also mean make it unable to switch job in the instance.

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If your logic is right, then by not queue'ing as a healer, you're contributing to your team's loss.

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Originally Posted by Dizhonor

If your logic is right, then by not queue'ing as a healer, you're contributing to your team's loss.

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Yes, you're totally right ! unless you have a really impressive team (won't happend most of the time).

I can recognize that i dont use healer, i mainly tank in FL, my "logic" isn't about people that dont play healer but the difference between having none or one to more than three in an alliance.
Usually there will be a nation with one or two heal for an alliance and the others can get over 7 or 8 in their, making the balancing of the PvP in favor of thoses that have the power to keep their mate alive, less downtime due to multiple death and so the timer get bigger to revive, more power to the DPS that can access the damage buff, etc...

In fact, being powerfull reward with more power.

It'd be cool if one of these days SE decided to reward me with something nice for actually bothering to heal in Frontlines when nobody else will. DPS get all these title-awarding achievements, and healers get spit on for basically enabling them to get the kills required for those achievements. A few ideas were tossed around to incentivize healers to queue up more for FLs, but they were basically shot down because people were convinced that bad healers only fishing for achievement ticks would somehow be worse than no healer at all (I'm not exactly convinced, but eh).

The new PVP gutted my class a bit too much for me to fool with it now, but even before I was actually enjoying working towards my Slaughterhouse achievement on PLD rather than actually healing YOLOers on WHM.

what sucks is playing a healer and not being able to use abilities on the other party .....protect and divine benison ect :(

but yeah number of healers = more chance to win ...ppl can go roll a healer if they want exp tho , u can change nearly the end to the job u want to level :)

Being a healer can be painful though. Especially when you're being attacked and no one comes to your aid.

No, healers are only OP if you don't bring the CC to kill them. Tanks can combo together and literally chain stun a healer so he never gets off a heal, BRD have Silence and SCH can burn their mana into dust.

But yes, if your alliance is 95% DPS, a team with a couple decent healers will dumpster yours (Which is normally what happens when people refuse to switch).

we had 2 healers in our alliance and just won today because the other two teams didnt focus crystals. It can be done but is hard

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Originally Posted by HyperSMB

No, healers are only OP if you don't bring the CC to kill them. Tanks can combo together and literally chain stun a healer so he never gets off a heal, BRD have Silence and SCH can burn their mana into dust.

But yes, if your alliance is 95% DPS, a team with a couple decent healers will dumpster yours (Which is normally what happens when people refuse to switch).

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I mainly tank in PvP, i always do my best to grab heal first, as drk, i can stun, grap, silence and lower healing received, the last one i try to apply at first but the debuff is getting dispel very quickly... you can stun once but after that there is an imunity for an amount of time so no, you can't chain stun...

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Originally Posted by Nexxus

I mainly tank in PvP, i always do my best to grab heal first, as drk, i can stun, grap, silence and lower healing received, the last one i try to apply at first but the debuff is getting dispel very quickly... you can stun once but after that there is an imunity for an amount of time so no, you can't chain stun...

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Chain stun was not the right term, I should have written chain CC, since you are absolutely right in that there is an immunity afterwards.

I won without healers and I lost with 10 healers. In the end, it all depends on how good the people are playing.

Although I mainly agree with this topic. I have won multiple 8v8 Feasts with no healers. Pulling back from those dire chances is often fun, though that fun doesn't justify the 1/3rd reward for losing.

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Originally Posted by Nexxus

I mainly tank in PvP, i always do my best to grab heal first, as drk, i can stun, grap, silence and lower healing received, the last one i try to apply at first but the debuff is getting dispel very quickly... you can stun once but after that there is an imunity for an amount of time so no, you can't chain stun...

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The thing you do is enough to kill any healer, pull takes it out for about 2 seconds depending on distane, pulling someone interrupts casts, stun is 3 seconds cant do anything, silence too cant do anything beside additional skills or oGCDs and is 2 seconds. If the healer is not ded it is your party problem

But not enough to kill a healer with 2 or more healer in their vicinity, as they're resplenish all the HP of the said healer, trying to switch target will not change anything.

I mostly talk for Frontline here, not Feast or anything else.

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Originally Posted by Nexxus

But not enough to kill a healer with 2 or more healer in their vicinity, as they're resplenish all the HP of the said healer, trying to switch target will not change anything.

I mostly talk for Frontline here, not Feast or anything else.

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Then you have to change strategy, get 2 drk and double pull, if this brute method doesnt work then ask some elite pvpers to carry you. e.e

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Originally Posted by Nexxus

Frontline:

Some alliances doesn't have a single healer where some others may have 7 or 8 in it, when that's happend you'll know from the start who will win.

Either put a limit to how many can be healer in a group or try to Distribute properly the healer in both nations.

That also mean make it unable to switch job in the instance.

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You can switch classes in the spawn area. This falls on the players not SE to fix. If theres more than two healers or tanks, I switch. unfortunately most are in it for levels and won't. But I have been on healer bare alliances and have still won. Just gotta run smarter.

I hope they never change the way job switching works now. It's so nice to be able to queue as anything now (instead of it having to be a Shatter-eligible job) and swap around to fit my team. The only thing I'd improve is being able to shuffle alliances a little (and maybe fix the longstanding controller alliance targeting issues in general) but I'll always switch at the start if my team is not balanced sensibly.

Well instead of having exp in pvp, make exp scrolls (instantly gives amount of exp) to use on any job, i would gladly switch to healer (and probably not only me).

It's about common runs, some uncommon may win despit the fact that they are lacking healers.

If we were doing ratio by win w/o healer, the percentage would be very low.

I did a frontline earlier that had 6 healers distributed evenly among the alliance and we facerolled all the other teams. It was seriously a bloodbath!!

Joking aside it had nothing to do with healers. We stayed together as a group and focused on ice when it spawned and didn't feed the enemy and actually communicated with each other. Who knew ;)

Healers should either get nerfed on their potencies, or be removed from FL entirely.

I've seen matches with 8 healers in a single team. Seriously... why?

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Originally Posted by Etrius

Healers should either get nerfed on their potencies, or be removed from FL entirely.

I've seen matches with 8 healers in a single team. Seriously... why?

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Because heroes never die.....EVER

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Originally Posted by Etrius

Healers should either get nerfed on their potencies, or be removed from FL entirely.

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I'd rather see Battle High/Fever removed from FL first, then we can talk about giving healers the nerf they deserve.

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Originally Posted by Shut

But another idea to let people who need xp for one of their job switching to healer if needed would be to tie the reward to the job you entered FL.

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Or you just use healer until scoreboard says 1500/1600 then use return and change to job you are currently leveling, that's what i do with my BRD and DRK when there is no healers, i start with BRD and change to DRK just before match ends to get all that exp for DRK instead. Works like a charm.

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

I'd rather see Battle High/Fever removed from FL first, then we can talk about giving healers the nerf they deserve.

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There's nothing wrong with Battle Highs or Battle Fevers. Almost every other competitive game has some sort of killstreak bonus, whether it's points, special abilities, or increased damage. Put enough focused fire on a BH/BF and they'll go down like anyone else. Unfortunately, so few know what they are or WHY they have that symbol and players actively discourage active combat in lieu of objectives, so we get to run wild.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

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Well for one thing just because other games have them doesn't mean we need them also, it's not a good argument and in my experience it just exacerbates the issues with premades (something not really in the scope of this thread, so I digress) but I think you missed the nuance of my point and I realized that I worded it badly and for that I do apologize.

Specifically, Etrius was calling for the removal/nerfing of healers in PVP, something that I absolutely support mind, I think PVP would be infinitely better if healing as a concept was drastically reduced or eliminated entirely. However, IF they did remove healing, then BF/BH would become way too powerful as a result. So if healers do get nerfed in PVP (again, something I support) then BH/BF have to go also (and maybe those item boxes in feast? I dunno).

Healers really aren't that OP at all, ESPECIALLY now.



I wish I could link the video of an AST friend surviving an entire team of 8 trying to take her down as she ran all the way from their base back to hers. Through a mix of the old AST's insanely good kit, PvP-specific skills, and knowing how to play her job well, she survived that. As a MCH, I've walked away from fights I should've lost, but didn't because I just simply know what I can/can't do.

As far as premades and BH/BF, there's nothing wrong with the system. Ask yourself if a team that either communicates and coordinates, or even just plays together frequently enough should somehow only be as capable as a group of random players? There are teams that try to build highs and fevers first, to strengthen themselves, THEN fully engage the enemy. There are others like myself who are simply good at focusing priority targets like healers or highs/fevers, and just builds up to the very same.

The problem is entirely on either passive play, or lack of awareness. If you're attacking a WHM and you see them suddenly heal to full, guess what they can't do for another 2 minutes? Turn up the pressure, or mark that healer and have the rest of your team attack them. COORDINATE. Mark targets. Don't let Battle Highs/Fevers just run wild. They often have a healer focused on keeping them alive; don't ignore them.

The rules don't need changing. People need to learn the rules and change their gameplay.

The real problem is that this game needs a competitive way for the Frontlines so that people who can communicate externally face people who play in their own league. The team has already tried on several occasions that the premades are avoided especially when groups have better forms of communication than the rest of groups. FFXIV is not the first game that tries to avoid the premades, several MMORPG have tried to avoid this type of situations making the people who want to go coordinated to join with people just as coordinated.

When I play Frontline randoms, I hope to meet with random people who try to coordinate through chat. If I am coordinated with a voice chat, I hope that my rivals have the same to make the fight as balanced as possible.

Personally I'd rather battle a premade with voice chat than face seven hour queues standing around while the game tries to match me to an equally-weak random team. 1v1v1 and multiple objectives means that there is usually a counter for an overwhelmingly organised team especially with the much-needed nerf to cometeor. If both other teams start acting like headless chickens and feeding the dominant group that's mostly their own fault.

I don't know how things are on the English-speaking realms but on ours a team of random inexperienced DF people with a good, experienced leader talking in text macros is overwhelmingly strong compared to a team of identical players with no leader, so blocking premades would make very little difference against the 'issue' of well-organised groups dominating.

And if healers are nerfed even further nobody will ever play them in FL again. It's very easy to overwhelm them now with their lack of counters and AoE tools when you're on the attack.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

There's nothing wrong with Battle Highs or Battle Fevers. Almost every other competitive game has some sort of killstreak bonus, whether it's points, special abilities, or increased damage. Put enough focused fire on a BH/BF and they'll go down like anyone else. Unfortunately, so few know what they are or WHY they have that symbol and players actively discourage active combat in lieu of objectives, so we get to run wild.

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It rewards people for sniping the last hit on an enemy player. So certain jobs - especially ranged and those with DoT effects - benefit far more than those who are more melee focused. I'm leveling SMN at the moment and get battle high unintentionally just by throwing DoT spells on random targets and playing it safe.

So that moment I focus an enemy healer and 100-0 them is me stealing a kill on someone? Or perhaps when an overzealous melee won't back off so I lure them far enough where their healer can't reach them or they los heals and counterattack? OR perhaps when I see someone's made a foolish mistake like jumping down to the ice from up high, all alone with my team already there? OR when I just simply outplay someone? All of that is just sniping last hits?

Please. You might get it unintentionally going after random targets, I get it regularly and frequently through skilled gameplay.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

Being a healer can be painful though. Especially when you're being attacked and no one comes to your aid.

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That's why I prefer playing healer with my FC, anything else otherwise.

If you queuing FL by yourself... Yeah maybe healers mean a lot

But if you run with a premade that all players (includes you) good at Pvp, the win rate will be around 85% to 90%
It's easy to carry a game with 8 players know what to do(i.e. Kill all people in other teams lol)