1.20 Attack Magic Test

Hi all, Please read #9 or #10 for a more controllable test result

I just want to share some attack magic test.

1. I'm not good at data analysis, so if you see something I don't. Please let me know. I post this for people who want to understand what they are doing and why they boost this and that stat.

2. This is a very limited black box test such as many things is unknown such as we don't know the correct magic att formula.


The test is done with Thm to test Basic Magic Damage with Int value. So, it's full gear with +14 rings or no. Test object is random mobs L50-54 (North of Ul'dah on the way to bluefog)

Go straight to results:
Spread sheet is here: google doc

In sum:
With +14 int boost, the magic feels it can be landing easier and less resistant by the mob. So far, looks like the int didn't do anything to base damage (same thing with the mind to healing. see this tread). However, it seems to add the damage to magic bonus part.


Now we can discuss about my junks.

My char stat no rings stat: (no Point allotment too)
Int 253
Mnd 242
Pie 236

Att magic 470
Enf magic 418
Magic acc 422

The damage numbers are flying here and there. In general, you can see the similar trend. However, beside the big critical damage, I think there is also small critical damage will pop. Also, I'm using the stone (lower magic eva) > thunder combo only.
This route is what I'm planning to use in ifrit or moogle events (that's why I spent time to test these and optimize my gears XD) Hopes you notice the magic eva down effect only last ~8 seconds. It usually wear right after my thundara. So, thundara damage output now is discuss-able. Then, magic eva down effect... /sigh I'm not sure it works. some of my no-magic-eva-down number is better than the one with it.

Next is mobs. Half of my test is weird because I just happened to pick the vultures. =.= If you are an experienced FF14 fighters (/chuckle), you know amount vultures they, like having different classes, fight differently one and another. One of them seems always do range attack. when you engage it, it fly away first then range att you. When this ranger bird do WS, it bind you and then fly further to att you more. Another type is melee bird. They get closed to you after engage. WS for melee bird is knock-back wind stuffs. Let's go straight to my screw-up. I didn't note down which bird it was until very end.
XD Let's just hope all of them have same stat, and the same LV mob have same stat too.
They are just have different fighting mode... XD


/featherfoot
/dodge cabbages from audience.

Finally, I didn't use the thunder combo correctly. The last thundaga bonus is increase crit damage. I didn't make it work properly. So, that part of damage is just for your reference!

(awww that hurts! I hate archer's range acc! stop aiming my face!)
/run away XD

I'll do more test ^^:

oh I forgot to put one more of my screw-up. As you experienced ff14 players might know (/chuckle), each game month, day and hour might have different elemental strength. I didn't put that down!
/point
"Look! it's Bayohne behind you!"

/run away

oh the up coming test is attack magic pot and mind test to the attack magic damage. I need to think of some way to boost it so it's comparable such is no stat changes.

Hmm...ok I think it's good enough for the basic test.
The datesheet is updated with Attack Magic Pot +8 set. I also filled some missing int and naked data.
If we believe there is no variant between same level same mob and time/weather won't change my thunder damage, Int looks like boosting damage bonus more while Attack Magic Pot raise the base damage of normal magic more.
Int also raised some base magic damage, but not as obvious as the attack magic pot.
I think it makes sense similar as Str and Att relationship.

To sum up, for con nukers, just get M att pot. for thunder combo lovers and you like big explosion, you can consider the int boost and m att pot.

I think for this test I'll stop here. I need a more controllable mob like all of them are same LV to do a better test.
Hopes you guys enjoy.
If you have a better data organizing method or some test you want to do, please let me know.

Hi all,

I went killed 150 L50 Kobold Prelates with Thundering combo.
The test goal is to figure out int vs. attack magic pot vs. elemental magic pot

Spread sheet here

In sum,
- No visual difference between Attack magic potency and elemental Magic potency
- No visual difference between +8 attack m. pot and +7 int
- +11 int adding thunder 11 (+1.3%), Thundara 42 (+3.3%), Thundaga 16 (+0.9%) of damage in combo
- +7 int adding thunder 11 (+1.3%), Thundara 26 (+2.0%), Thundaga 14 (+0.7%) of damage in combo (separate test)
- +8 Attack Magic Pot adding thunder 7 (+0.9%), Thundara 28 (+2.0%), Thundaga 24 (+1.3%) of damage in combo

Note: the critical attack are taking out from the average. Thundaga's combo bonus is crit damage +

I couldn't really think right now XD have to finish the test in a short time so it won't go far off by the environmental factor. I'll add more of my thoughts later. so ya don't go too addictive to these materia and stuffs it's not worth it.

Interesting.

Neat-o! I'm glad you posted this. I've been eyeballing +attack magic potency and +earth magic potency on my Conjurer.

I wanted to share your same initial opinions of:
Same level ~ same mob means same statistics.
Weather not having an effect on spells yet.

side note: Holy Mother of Odin that Thaumaturge damage is high.
P.S. Doh! Water Brand :-(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deli

Hi all,

I went killed 150 L50 Kobold Prelates with Thundering combo.
The test goal is to figure out int vs. attack magic pot vs. elemental magic pot

Spread sheet here

In sum,
- No visual difference between Attack magic potency and elemental Magic potency
- No visual difference between +8 attack m. pot and +7 int
- +11 int adding thunder 11 (+1.3%), Thundara 42 (+3.3%), Thundaga 16 (+0.9%) of damage in combo
- +7 int adding thunder 11 (+1.3%), Thundara 26 (+2.0%), Thundaga 14 (+0.7%) of damage in combo (separate test)
- +8 Attack Magic Pot adding thunder 7 (+0.9%), Thundara 28 (+2.0%), Thundaga 24 (+1.3%) of damage in combo

Note: the critical attack are taking out from the average. Thundaga's combo bonus is crit damage +

I couldn't really think right now XD have to finish the test in a short time so it won't go far off by the environmental factor. I'll add more of my thoughts later. so ya don't go too addictive to these materia and stuffs it's not worth it.

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Hi Deli,

Thanks for the latest test. :) Some interesting results.

It's a bit shocking to see +Elemental stats doing basically nothing for your Elemental Spell chain.

And it seems like INT is the one noticeable factor.

If you have the raw data still, you might want to post / check the #'s for Criticals. To see if Critical Damage got affected by these various changes you did. That'd be nice if that was affected by a stat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fiosha_Maureiba

Neat-o! I'm glad you posted this. I've been eyeballing +attack magic potency and +earth magic potency on my Conjurer.

I wanted to share your same initial opinions of:
Same level ~ same mob means same statistics.
Weather not having an effect on spells yet.

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<3 thanks for confirming with me. I always worried that I missed some info like first test I did.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kiara

It's a bit shocking to see +Elemental stats doing basically nothing for your Elemental Spell chain.

If you have the raw data still, you might want to post / check the #'s for Criticals. To see if Critical Damage got affected by these various changes you did. That'd be nice if that was affected by a stat.

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glad you like these :D
something when I did my other curing test, I found out the mind to curing magic might not be linear. My guess is SE wants to reward the double materia players, so they did such adjustment. so far I just done 350 cura and 150cure on 7 situations. I need more time to complete the test. (got caught by the moogle battle in the middle of my test XD) I will need more average results out of 50 cura for different mind value to do the chart.

In that case, maybe int and attack magic pot share the same situation. Right now, I don't think int and m. att pot has that much difference, maybe later they will.

Another note is I never get resisted by these L50 kobolds. I think I need to take some risk and find something will resist me, maybe L52 doorguards of Zahar'ak, for the complete attack magic test. I really need that part of information to clarify the core issue- "should I put m. acc or int materia to Head/wand?" same thing to rings selection. Also, there might be some relationship between int and resistance from the mobs. So... lots things need to be tested. :D Since last fight nothing resist all of my magic, we maybe can thing that's the average of max dmg you can have from these stat. Maybe also that's why they didn't show the same thing as my first test: int shows more on combo bonus and att. m. pot. increase more on base value.

so ya give me a little more time ^^:: I'll finish healing magic first (<--so much easier than attacking :( ) then I'll finish this one :D

Hi all,

Here we go again...
after killed 810+ raptors, I have some teaser result to share with you guys first before I go to sleep ^^

First of all, since the satisfying mind vs cure data is out, I really want to do a similar thing Attack Magic Potency (AMP) vs Dmg and Int vs Dmg. Today, I done lots killings with different AMP values. Also, I write down the mob level and trying to "predict" the damage profile when mob level go higher. Fortunately, they are all pretty linear**. As previous test (#1 post) discussed, AMP doesn't helps thunder attack bonus is agreed by today's test. So, here are the charts and summary data in jpg.



http://t.imgbox.com/aafrbY9t.jpg

http://t.imgbox.com/aavkvGRO.jpg
Thunder Damage vs Monster LV

http://t.imgbox.com/aarItcRV.jpg
Thundara Damage vs Monster LV


There might be some mistake there. I really sux at doing data analysis, so I'll review again these problematic one.
Later I'll also do a AMP vs damage. Once I got my Int data ready, same ~900 kills, I'll post everything as Google Document again. :D



PS... The Magic Acc vs Int test, it's too dangerous for myself to gather large amount of data... I really need someone to tank for me. However, don't volunteer too. I generally don't accept helps from people XD I'll think of some way to get around it ^^ such as the Snurble has super big magic resistance... I hope I can find some, definitely not from leve, around L50ish :D

Hi all,

Finally done the INT and Attack Magic Potency (AMP) vs damage test.
To sum up, AMP add more to the base of the damage INT add more to the combo bonus.
So it's all expected. :D

google data

http://t.imgbox.com/aas051UE.jpg
Int data

http://t.imgbox.com/aatHOl9Q.jpg
Thunder Damage vs Level

http://t.imgbox.com/aamay2Dw.jpg
Thundara Damage vs Level


http://t.imgbox.com/aalnVjGw.jpg
Thunder damage vs AMP or Int

http://t.imgbox.com/aalhvjQE.jpg
Thundara damage vs AMP or Int



Test in progress: Magic Acc vs Mind with Moogle nm

Hi Deli,

Thanks again for the info and tests. :)

But based on your latest results, doesn't it seem like INT is just more valuable overall? It seems to give you greater boots in damage on both Thunder and Thundara (vs. AMP).

Or what was the percentage boost? Thanks.

i dont understand what you trying to say. in your first post you said that int has no effect on dmg but it clearly does.
i did some small test myself same base weapon but one hase +31 int (materia) it boosted my dmg oon thunder and thundaga about 6-7%.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Saiph

i dont understand what you trying to say. in your first post you said that int has no effect on dmg but it clearly does.
i did some small test myself same base weapon but one hase +31 int (materia) it boosted my dmg oon thunder and thundaga about 6-7%.

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please read the later more controlled test... my first test was done only with +14 int and using 10 samples from different mobs. The test itself is a problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kiara

Hi Deli,

Thanks again for the info and tests. :)

But based on your latest results, doesn't it seem like INT is just more valuable overall? It seems to give you greater boots in damage on both Thunder and Thundara (vs. AMP).

Or what was the percentage boost? Thanks.

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Int didn't boost thunder more than AMP in a long run. But that required players to put lots gils to materia.
I think balanced 1:1 int: AMP still the good way. However, according to market value, int damage/gil ratio is better.

Many people might still choose go crazy on m. acc. The only reason is if your first thunder got resisted the thunder combo won't continue. Then, your super high int won't worth it in that case because it won't get thundara chain bonus part (the reason you put high int).
However, for myself, I will stop at m. acc around 450. with tomoto pie (+15) and rings, it's not hard to do.
The m. acc test... it's really hard for me to do gather large amount of data to get meaningful comparison. I have around 430 m. acc in my gear set. in normal fighting need L54ish can start to see the resistance. In moogle fight, only kipp and shaggysong will show some resist (at least 50%).
I don't know I should use my LS moogle battle event to do the test or no... it seems risking other people's chance to win.
Maybe I'll just focus on the moogle pre-quest nm for my test...
I only get one condition done so far... I still need more time to prepare the magic acc.

I would like to note at least during my duoing experiences with thaumaturg.

Elemental resistances of the mob you are fighting can be a huge factor in how much damage your dealing. Go use thunder on a toad, then go use thunder on a bird or something. The numbers will be night and day, so if your testing damage be sure your testing on something nuetral to the spell you are casting.

yeah sry you are right. a good mix of both should do. as for m. acc. i would test it on stuff like ifrit and when you feel getting very rarely resisted you shouldnt get more m. acc. but rather go for dmg (int/m. att.).

your posting is all over the place, i would take all your best info and revise it in a new thread to make it more understandable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by syntaxlies

your posting is all over the place, i would take all your best info and revise it in a new thread to make it more understandable.

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oh ya it will be great if you can organize into a better form.
I'm very bad at organize data ^^:
So feel free to copy and paste any of these :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deli

PS... The Magic Acc vs Int test, it's too dangerous for myself to gather large amount of data... I really need someone to tank for me. However, don't volunteer too. I generally don't accept helps from people XD I'll think of some way to get around it ^^ such as the Snurble has super big magic resistance... I hope I can find some, definitely not from leve, around L50ish :D

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I solo 50-54 mobs on my THM, man up.

you should be using a parser this google doc crap is terrible... you could spend 1/10th the time and collect 10x as much data.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tachikoma

you should be using a parser this google doc crap is terrible... you could spend 1/10th the time and collect 10x as much data.

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but I don't trust 3rd party software on my ff14 :O
They might steal my cookies from my jar.


or you know someone should show me how to organize these data :D

Thanks for posting that info. That was exactly the information I was looking for. Your chart seemed pretty clear to me. Don't see anything wrong with the organization.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tachikoma

you should be using a parser this google doc crap is terrible... you could spend 1/10th the time and collect 10x as much data.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deli

but I don't trust 3rd party software on my ff14 :O
They might steal my cookies from my jar.

or you know someone should show me how to organize these data :D

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yeah tachi, he doesn't want your parser stealing his cookies!

Interesting results, I look forward to 2.0 because addons will allow much easier and accurate use of parsers to collect this kind of data.

The problem is that because you are facing lower level mobs and non boss mobs that your results are skewed in your favor by your base stats. (assuming you are level 50)

Ie, what are the results on a monster 5 levels above you, ie is INT more effective or AMP ?

You should try doing some data based on you (50) mobs (50) (51) (52)