Dark Knight AOE rotation

Hello all! After getting used to the Dark Knight toolkit at 70 and spamming dungeons for several nights, I have found an odd rotation that feels solid in terms of self healing, mitigation, and AOE threat. If this is a stupid rotation and I need to be doing something else please let me know. I haven't found much on Dark Knight theorycrafting yet. Please note that this is for you standard 3 mob pull (or more) and is not focused on damage.

Mana is now mitigation due to "The Blackest Night". The 2400 MP used for the ability will give me a 10k shield with my health pool, this is more than what a DA souleater will heal me for (SE is about a 3400 heal in my gear). Also for reference, a DA abyssal drain will heal me for about 1100 per target.

The rotation is pretty simple, after you have gathered all of the mobs and dumped your initial mana into the The Blackest Night and DA abyssal drain spam, you will hard slash into syphon stike while NOT doing a souleater to finish the combo. In terms of mana you will prioritize using "The Blackest Night" on CD followed by a DA abyssal drain after your syphon strike. You will also completely ignore the blood gauge (outside of Delirium). The reasoning is because there is no threat modifier on Quietus and it is on the GCD. I also save C+S for the MP regen as well.

If you think this is bad please let me know and share your knowledge as I would be curious to hear it.

3 monster mobs never hit me hard enough to break TBN.

Then you will take no damage for 5 seconds? or pull more mobs. Note how I said (or more).

With rare exceptions (Shake it Off) new abilities are introduced into the game because they are good and you should use them, it is often a mathematical gain to do so. I'll admit I don't fully grasp why people will sit on 100 blood gauge and ignore Quietus, or spam Bloodspiller when Delirium is off cooldown. But to each their own.

I'd personally weave quiestus in whenever you can. It may not give much emnity but wasted blood makes me want to cry. If you're in Grit, use Bloodspiller if you have 3 or less enemies.

Like I said, this isn't a rotation for damage. DA+Quietus on 3+ mobs is the win there, but that mana could have been used for a BN or DA abyssal drain which in a large pull will heal you for a decent amount.

On 5 or more DA on Quietus is a DPS/mp spent gain compared to 2 x AD.

I don't think anyone read this post. I know using DA+Quietus on packs of mobs is more dps. My argument is instead of wasting mana and globals on DA+Quietus is to use that mana (more mana gained because you are only using hard slash and syphon strike) to mitigate and self heal through damage.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lidel417

Like I said, this isn't a rotation for damage. DA+Quietus on 3+ mobs is the win there, but that mana could have been used for a BN or DA abyssal drain which in a large pull will heal you for a decent amount.

---

Killing it faster results in less damage. With TBN, a DA abyssal drain, you can still get a few of your new blood skills in there with no risk of dying.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lidel417

I don't think anyone read this post. I know using DA+Quietus on packs of mobs is more dps. My argument is instead of wasting mana and globals on DA+Quietus is to use that mana (more mana gained because you are only using hard slash and syphon strike) to mitigate and self heal through damage.

---

Its not even about DPS, its about having your resource overflow and then sit pointlessly at 100 for no reason.

Using the killing is faster results in less damage argument, why aren't we all wearing 270 slaying accessories? I get the doing more dps thing, trust me. I have STR tanked out of tank stance with the best of them. What if I get a noob healer that wants an easy run though?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lidel417

I don't think anyone read this post. I know using DA+Quietus on packs of mobs is more dps. My argument is instead of wasting mana and globals on DA+Quietus is to use that mana (more mana gained because you are only using hard slash and syphon strike) to mitigate and self heal through damage.

---

Unless you're pulling beyond your healer's limit there is no need for self-heals on trash.

The name of the game is burning down the trash as fast as possible to clear as fast as possible. You'll take less damage that way too.

I am sitting on the resource at 100 for a reason. That reason is that I could get more mana not wasting that global on Blood gauge moves. I can then get more mitigation and AOE threat out of it. You have to remember, not all tanks are in full 310 gear.

I figured the DPS over everything would triumph this discussion. I tried.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lidel417

I figured the DPS over everything would triumph this discussion. I tried.

---

I use vit acessories. If I pull 3 mobs and use a CD I find that DA abyssal drain alone is over healing since my healer is barely trying and keeping me topped up. It's a waste of mp if it does nothing. I understand your point of self sustain but personally, on a 3 mob pull, it's completely unneccessary.

I agree with you that on a 3 mob pull it is not needed. I just said 3 mob pull to indicate an AOE pull.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lidel417

I agree with you that on a 3 mob pull it is not needed. I just said 3 mob pull to indicate an AOE pull.

---

Now if you pull wall to wall, which is how I prefer to do it most of the time, your rotation works well. I personally still quiestus constantly but I use TBN constantly, DA abyssal drain alot and 2 hit SS combo for resource generation.

Why do I use quiestus?
If I run out of CDs cause dps is too slow, I will probably die.

Then get better dps :P jk

I usually do 2-3 pack pulls and this rotation to me feels much sturdier (my opinion), which is the point of this rotation. I get that people wanna push dps though. AOE threat is super easy as well. I also had this in mind for a freshly geared tank as they would need the extra AOE threat and mitigation.

If you're durable enough to gather up multiple packs, you should be durable enough with grit off and Rampart running.

Do your abyssal drains to establish hate, gather your enemies, drop Salt. Works best if you already have bloodgauge built but the idea is:

Drop Grit, activate blood weapon + delirium, then Dark Arts Quietus. Blood weapon counts for every hit of Quietus which is +3 gauge per target, plus Mp. Dump the MP however you want, but prioritize Dark art Quietus. Should allow for a fair amount of DA AD usage since every Quietus should be a full MP bar.

YMMV

I know how to push dps. Please stop telling me as I already know. I am also not trying to argue about if pushing dps or being more durable on a pull is better. My point of this thread is if this rotation would make you more durable on a AOE pull, which seems to fly over everyones head. Some people actually want to be tanky on a tank character instead of push dps. Maybe your healer could output more dps if you were more tanky? Idk. I would really appreciate feedback on the rotation based on if you think it would make you more tanky or not and not the old.. do more dps nub.

Obviously TBN is great if you can have mobs pop the shield during pull. It serves as a heal for 3-4 autos. That said you have plenty of mana to swim around, and TBN is on 15sec recast so there is no reason to keep mana exclusively for that given that you can easily get 2400mana back off a Syphon Strike in Grit even if you empty out on AoEs. Sitting on 100 gauge is bad and you are bad if you let this happen often or all the time. Unless if you think TBN has no recast then yes, your point of tanking is moot.

If you want to just keep telling people to do more DPS, maybe you want to ask why isnt it happening already.

What is your secret to having so much mana then? On 10+ mobs pulls with blood price+delirium going I am still mana starved.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lidel417

I know how to push dps. Please stop telling me as I already know. I am also not trying to argue about if pushing dps or being more durable on a pull is better. My point of this thread is if this rotation would make you more durable on a AOE pull, which seems to fly over everyones head. Some people actually want to be tanky on a tank character instead of push dps. Maybe your healer could output more dps if you were more tanky? Idk. I would really appreciate feedback on the rotation based on if you think it would make you more tanky or not and not the old.. do more dps nub.

---

I mean, you already said it yourself. Dps triumphs over all. Kill things faster=less healing having to be done. Sorry if that's not the answer you wanted.

You can also use the argument that if you are tankier then your healer could output more dps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lidel417

You can also use the argument that if you are tankier then your healer could output more dps.

---

If both players are good then you both find ways to maximize dps up time. This has always been true in my experience. As long as you're making efficient use of your cds and you're not just mindlessly mass pulling without tank stance, you're good to go nuts on dps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lidel417

What is your secret to having so much mana then? On 10+ mobs pulls with blood price+delirium going I am still mana starved.

---

I have no mana issue when I pull that much and especially with Blood Price + Delirium. You were probably doing DA'd Abyssal Drain or something, it costs you 3.7k mana which is about equivalent to about 40% of your total mana per usage. Mana Management is way easier on Grit due to you recovering 1 DA worth every Syphon Strike.

The point here is while TBN should be used often for big pulls, it is NEVER up all the time due to 15sec recast for 5sec duration. Do you see how flawed your argument is? You can easily gain 4.8k mana off 2 Souleater combo in Grit within that period without even seeing Blood Price. Unless if you alternate TBN into DAAD then it might work to sustain HP but still not optimal because your healer can easily heal that much and more off 1 GCD.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lidel417

What is your secret to having so much mana then? On 10+ mobs pulls with blood price+delirium going I am still mana starved.

---

Get a healer that doesn't suck and go yolo BW Quietus for all the MP ever. Needs blood though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lidel417

You can also use the argument that if you are tankier then your healer could output more dps.

---

The fact that you are bringing this argument means that you don't really know how tanking really works in this game.

I would only waste mp on DA AD if the healer was slacking and all my cds were used. But if you push dps the pack should die before your cds wear off, thus making you just as effective as sitting in grit doing da ad spam but having your cds wear off due to taking forever to kill the packs, but now you clear the dungeon faster. Ive leveled all 3 tanks to 70 and if im bored enough to find myself in dungeons for whatever reason now drk is my tank of choice. Pull everything use your cds and go ham, emergency tbn/da ad if you need to. But im in bis gear, slayer accessories, all grade vi melds so I dont really have anything to worry about lol and I notice the clear speed compared to my first tank at 70 when I played safe like youre doing.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarcatica

The fact that you are bringing this argument means that you don't really know how tanking really works in this game.

---

I can't use that argument? Healers tell me all of the time that they would wish their tanks would be tankier so that they could dps more. Have you seen WHM dps?

Just to note: I do not use this rotation much, it was more of an idea to use your mana and globals more defensively so please stop calling me bad like you did earlier. Please stop pointing out how TBN works, I can read the tooltip.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MagiusNecros

Get a healer that doesn't suck and go yolo BW Quietus for all the MP ever. Needs blood though.

---

I have had healers that are terrified of healing dungeons because they get tanks that pull large packs, die, then cuss out the healer. I'm not saying that this is the best rotation out there, but a way to be more defensive possibly? Does it do that? I would happily be more defense orientated to help build a healers confidence up.

I also understand that in YOLO groups you can BW Quietus blah blah and do more dps to your hearts content, and that is great.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lidel417

I can't use that argument? Healers tell me all of the time that they would wish their tanks would be tankier so that they could dps more. Have you seen WHM dps?

---

Maybe if your healer is not confident, you should be pulling smaller? I don't get what you are trying to argue. Ask at start if you can pull more, if not that's fine too. So far from my end, the healers I am paired with can do huge dps while still healing me through big pulls. Healers have all the tools to do dps and heal, there is no excuse on that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarcatica

Maybe if your healer is not confident, you should be pulling smaller? I don't get what you are trying to argue. Ask at start if you can pull more, if not that's fine too. So far from my end, the healers I am paired with can do huge dps while still healing me through big pulls. Healers have all the tools to do dps and heal, there is no excuse on that.

---

I have had healers tell me that they wish their tanks would maybe focus on being more defensive so that they could have more DPS uptime. The tank would do less DPS and the healer could possibly do more DPS to balance it out. I'm sure at the top end of skill this doesn't matter and both will push max damage. I am not trying to argue anything in this paragraph, this is just what I have had told to me.

Most DF healers I get can also handle big pulls as well. I do not use this rotation for that and focus on damage.

Not every healer is a pro. I have had a couple of healers that want to try dpsing in a dungeon (due to our community calling you shit if you don't), but are scared that they will get a tank that mass pulls everything (and going balls to the wall dps) and are about to give up healing because they can't practice. I will happily use this rotation for them to be more tanky to help them build their confidence. Please note that I am not doing large pulls, maybe 5 mobs top.

This rotation was just an idea to be more defense orientated on the rare chance that you needed it, not the standard daily dungeon spam.