At this point, I'm wondering what the point of a job system is right now...from what we saw from the class reform post, they're just additional Weapon Skills/Traits you get for doing a job quest. But what else do they entail? That really can't be all of it if we're to believe Yoshida-P when he says jobs are for party-content and non-job classes are for more casual/solo content.
Regardless, we still don't know if jobs are locked to the class that unlocks them, do we? If they are, I will be....pretty incredibly angry about it, as that is literally just making them questable class skills/traits.
What are your thoughts/speculations on the upcoming job system? What ideas do you have for it? What are you looking for in the job system?
EDIT: Also can we get a rep response as to if they are locked to the class that unlocked them and whether or not the added skills are all that they entail?
Point of the Job System?
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12-19-2011, 04:06 AMSuzakuCMXPoint of the Job System?
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12-19-2011, 04:10 AMJennestia
We don't have full details yet but it was stated jobs are more specialized and exclusive -- WHM for example will obviously be a better healer and have better healing abilities implementation in a party setting (the point of jobs) and a Paladin will likely be the go-to tank.
We know for example Marauder (18) and Gladiator (30) is required to Unlock Paladin which is placed ontop of Gladiator and exp you gain on Gladiator/Paladin goes to Gladiator/Paladin since they're basically one in the same in terms of growth.
When Jobs are released, Classes will be more for general use while Jobs will be for Party setting. -
12-19-2011, 04:11 AMEndemerrin
It's going to make party play much more defined and in a sense, easier. Each role will be better at what they do than they currently are. While my group was fighting Good King Moggle Mog, almost all of us ended up thinking "Wow, X mechanic would be SO much easier if we had Y job's ability right now.", just based off the examples we were given awhile ago.
It's not some huge complex system, so people shouldn't kid themselves into thinking that it's going to be some massive, in-depth job system. It's to further define roles in parties, nothing more. Paladins will be better tanks, and white mages will be better healers.
The reason they're keeping the class system is because those defined roles might not be perfect for soloing, and giving players the ability to mix and match abilities while soloing makes it easier to do. -
12-19-2011, 04:13 AMPhysic
it has been said that they are locked to the job, all of the skills say requires whatever the job is in the req field.
They are basically extensions of classes, however theres like 4 or 5 good skills spread out amongst other jobs, and you wont be able to use them all when you select a job. However, its likely that even with that it will be better than classes are for soloing, i mean, sure cure bloodbath invig etc are useful solo, but are they more useful than what the jobs bring to the table? i guess time will tell -
12-19-2011, 05:56 AMRuinaru
1: Yes, jobs are locked to the class they're related to. A Paladin uses a Sword and Shield, and you can't equip Paladin Skills on, say, Marauder.
2: In addition to granting access to extra actions and traits, jobs will alter a class's attributes. For example, when a Gladiator switches to Paladin, it will have lower HP, but higher MP and much higher DEF.
3: The only thing I don't think they've explicitly stated is whether or not jobs will have access to cross-class skills. They probably won't, though. A Paladin probably won't have access to Second Wind, for instance.
EDIT: So the point of the job system is to allow players to specialize their abilities when in a party or similar situation. If you're a tank in a party with a healer, you can afford to give up abilities like Cure and Second Wind in favor of better hate management and easier curability. If you're a DD in a pt with a dedicated tank, you can afford to give up some cross-class abilities that up your survivability in order to pump out more damage, etc. -
12-19-2011, 06:02 AMKamikazeMan
Well....they took away most of our crowd control actions and things like Chainspell and Rebirth which were great for parties. My guess is that once the jobs are out, people will want to get them for party play and crowd control. Maybe the best gear will be for jobs as well.
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12-19-2011, 06:36 AMDreadnoughtwhats strange to me is that CNJ is already a WHM. its vastly superior to THM cross classing 1 cure spell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennestia
i was under the notion that classes would be much more versatile allowing for easier solo play and Jobs would be vastly more restricted than classes. however, classes are now just about 90% restricted.
"no because you can equip 10 abilities from other classes" LOL THERE ARE HARDLY ANY WORTH WHILE ABILITIES TO EQUIP FROM OTHER CLASSES. not only are there almost no DOW abilities worth while to equip to my mages (such as that life saving MRD defense mode buff) but i cant cross class almost any worth while Mage abilities.
i now cant cross class the vast majority of spells/abilities from one mage to another. Its like the classes themselves are the Jobs and the Jobs will just be the exact same with a few more spells/abilities.
we were specifically told classes would be much more versatile, by they are very very restricted. Why cant i equip the CNJ MP ability on my THM and have it just gimped a little? Its not like id be over powerd in Boss battles or anything. -
12-19-2011, 06:38 AMEdenArchangel
With the new abilities, we're essentially very constrained as it is. Not that I mind defined roles, but it does seem like a job system on top of a job system is coming. I'm curious.
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12-19-2011, 06:55 AMDreadnoughtRIGHT!!! thats what im saying! our current classes are constrained as it is. were already Jobs, i dont understand the concept of being jobs on top of jobs. i mean, is the only difference that we wont be able to cross class any abilities at all? 100% constrainment instead of 90% constrainment?Quote:
Originally Posted by EdenArchangel
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12-19-2011, 07:03 AMJynx
Personally I hope jobs do such a good job at making each job unique they eventually phase out classes entirely.
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12-19-2011, 07:04 AMAgate
They took out all of our abilities in 1.20 so they could give them back to us in 1.21 and call it new content. XD
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12-19-2011, 07:06 AMDawiichan
I think the best example I can give is the description they gave between Paladin and Gladiator. They said Gladiator would have a higher HP pool unlike Paladin that has less HP but higher defense and the ability to heal.
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12-19-2011, 10:14 AMSpellbinder
This is what I was afraid of. Finally logged in for the first time since the update and figured I'd give a few leves a try as Conjurer and Thaumaturge... didn't like it at all.
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12-19-2011, 12:15 PMRuinaruI don't play mages, but from what I hear I certainly hope everything isn't working as intended. I hope that SE decides to make a few big changes to the way mages get to play soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spellbinder
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12-19-2011, 12:48 PMCoglinOut of curiosity, what didn't you like?Quote:
Originally Posted by Spellbinder
THM actually felt powerfull in my opinion, as well, I felt CNJ was much more versitile. -
12-19-2011, 12:57 PMJinkoI doubt as BLM you can even set cross class abilities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dreadnought
So where as THM will have the use of Protect, Stoneskin and Cure a BLM probably won't.
Obviously your opinion on those 3 spells is your own, but I still feel they come in very handy when I'm soloing on my THM.
I don't understand the need for players to feel they can do everything either, in most other MMO's you can't set spells and skills from other classes.
In 11 you can only set spells and skills much much lower than your main level, ie Cure II (its a bit different now mind) but you shoudln't expect to be setting Cura and Curaga as a DD class.
Mages work perfectly IMO , THM spells are a bit on the costly side but that my only fualt with themQuote:
Originally Posted by Spellbinder
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12-20-2011, 07:49 AMSigny
What i think they should do is make the jobs like extension of the current class. This jobs should be able to equip or not at will, it would be cool if they are linked to the weapon you are using like with the armory system. Something like this:
Gladiator (Short Sword and Shield) ---------- Paladin (Long Sword and Shield)
.....................................................|----- Blue Mage (Dual Swords)
Marauder (Great Axe) ---------- Warrior (Great Sword)
...................................|----- Dark Knight (Scythe)
Pugilist (Cesti) ----------------- Monk (Knuckles)
..................................|------ Puppet Master (Claws)
Archer (Short Bow) ------------- Bard (Shot Bow and Instrument)
...................................|------ Hunter (Long Bow) or Musketeer (Pistols)
Lancer (Spear) ------------- Dragon (Lance)
.............................|------ ??? Don't know
Conjurer (Wand) ----------- White Mage (Cane)
.............................|------ Summoner (Another tipe of staff or maybe a book/grimoire)
Thaumaturge (Scepter) ------- Black Mage (Staff)
..................................|----- Red Mage (Rapier and Shield)
Each job will have access to all the skills the base class have and will focus the stats, new skills and the gameplay to something in particular. And they can add more classes and jobs like:
Rouge (Dagger and Shield) ---------- Thieft (Dual Dagger)
..........................................|----- Ninja (Dual Katanas)
Hear me devs! :D -
12-20-2011, 07:59 AMShaedhen
To answer the OP about my thoughts on the job system :
As long as there's only one job per class i don't see the point of it. What i thought was interesting when they first mentioned it is the perspective of multiple jobs for each class and cross-class jobs.
Right now with the few new abilities we will get it just sounds like they're raising the lvlcap without actually doing so. -
12-20-2011, 08:04 AMDeli
Right now like conj has pretty good healing ability and can do some serious dmg with clerk stand thing. So, I don't think mage is broken. just need to try more and harder
I think right now classes like gld and con, they can do several things. Some good DD skills and some good tank/healing skills. Maybe job is go specific task- tank only (pld) and heal only (whm). -
12-20-2011, 08:10 AMDeadRiserI was actually thinking that's what they might do in 2.0, just get rid of the class system all together and give us jobs as the "main classes".Quote:
Originally Posted by Jynx
Don't flame me for this anyone, it's just an opinion. -
12-20-2011, 08:22 AMLiennBeen saying this a while back...and was trolled ALOT due this. I do am expecting an announcement of classes being merged with jobs before 2.0 kicks in.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadRiser
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12-20-2011, 08:36 AMDeadRiserI don't see how it couldn't fit into XIV... it would make sense because people wanted jobs all along.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lienn
Only reason I want actual jobs is so I can equip other weapons as a classeerrrrrrr I mean job lol. -
12-20-2011, 11:05 AMBahnI'm actually of the school of thought that restrictive defined roles are a bad thing for this game - I liked being able to cross-class stuff - the only problem was a good majority of the stuff you could cross-class was kinda crappy - but I liked that mechanic, and I was hoping they built upon that. SWTOR's skill distribution is such that you don't end up looking for X class for your healing or Y class for your DD or Z class for your tank; in that game, you ask for a healer and you'll get a healer that can be one of several classes and not just one class.Quote:
Originally Posted by DeadRiser
Same for DD, tank, etc With the way SE is going with the current class/job system, they ultimately will want to do what you just stated, make explicit and restricted roles. The healer will be a White Mage. The DD will be the Ninja/Dragoon. The Tank will be the Paladin. The Paladin will *always* use these skills and will always be the tank, the Ninja/Dragoon will *always* use these skills and will always be the DD, and so on and so forth. That XI-style system is what drove me away from that game (and many other MMOs, for that matter).
I guess we'll see if they'll be able to flesh this stuff out over the next few months. I'm not keeping my hopes up - perhaps with 2.0 it will be a completely different beast. -
12-20-2011, 11:53 AMLiennSo am i. I SO loved how flexible this game was...from 7 classes we had 7 DDs, 4 tanks and 2 healers. The game was "beautiful".Quote:
Originally Posted by Bahn
I still have hopes that the original FFXIV might make a return sooner or later (hopefully sooner...IMO if it happens, it might be around march, when Tanaka is done with FFXI endgame reworking). That's a game i bought knowing what to expect, loved it and would pay subs without thinking twice...it was enjoyable to play, even with the bugs and the delay (that btw would probable be fixed for at least 6 month by now if dev team didn't change)...
IMO the correct way of doing things would've been starting the development of the 2.0 but leaving Tanaka working on FFXIV. If things were still bad when 2.0 was finished (i really doubt...Tanaka has his red blood cells using red mage hat! That dude is one of the fathers of FF...no one better than him to understand the serie) then they should put 2.0 as FFXIV and move the original FFXIV to a spin-off position....and if happen of the original FFXIV were all good by them (very possible) then just turned 2.0 into FFXV.
It could've been a win-win deal...and it still can. But i think that the first step would be bringing the original FFXIV back as a spin-off to expand the options to the playerbase. After all, they both already are different in pretty much every single core mechanics and target different players.
I wish more people supported this idea here, but those who would probably left already due changes or because they simply don't like forums. -
12-20-2011, 12:07 PMJashynvald
I can't recall the interview it was mentioned but Yoshi did talk about a "job stone" you equip when you want to switch from the primary archetype class to the more specific job. So it would be something like PGL Weapon + MNK Job Stone = MNK. Obviously, the job stone would have PGL as a requirement for equiping but that would also mean that they wouldn't have to make up a new system to keep your job cross-ability settings each time you did swap out (assuming we get any at all that is).
The job system being implemented in 1.21 looks fairly bare bones but that's to be expected from a new system being put in place. The jobs themselves aren't entirely surprising either as iconic as they are (we're still playing Final Fantasy here) but I think these are just the logical extension of the disciple class archetypes if they were expanded into jobs. Further down the line, I'm thinking we will see alternate jobs that branch out and expand on other aspects of the class (like PGL => NIN that hones their evasive qualities or LNC => SAM to whore out on TP-generation even more (with the class's defining weapon aesthetic more along the lines of a yari rather than a katana, assuming GLA doesn't get 2H-swords). -
12-20-2011, 12:19 PMLiennMainly like FFIII job system it seems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jashynvald