[Request: Fix Macro Clipping ] Please support my initiative to fix macro clipping.

The Problem

The recast time on certain abilities aren't in integer multiples of a second so if you lock a macro and use the wait command you're going to encounter macro clipping.

Macro clipping is when your recast timer clips abilities in a second macro you're spamming during the ~0.5 second interval macrolock comes off and your recast timer for the executed ability is in effect.

Video Demonstrating Macro Clipping:
https://youtu.be/J73GDRw7mTA

The Solution

This is easily implementable in the game. Simply add another macro called macrolockrc <defaultrecast_time> which will lock the macro for the recast time of a subset of spells/abilities. Ideally it would be affected by skill speed and spell speed so the macro is spamable with a subset of abilities.

Example:

Code:

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/macrolockrc 2.5
/ac "Hard Slash"

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This would lock the macro for the recast period of hard slash.

Thank you for your feedback.

The reason is normal skills get into a skill queue when activated for like 0.5 seconds.
Macros don't get into a skill queue, they are activated the moment they are in line in the macro.

This is intended to prevent that macros are used to automate the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Legion88

The reason is normal skills get into a skill queue when activated for like 0.5 seconds.

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This is wrong.

The reason was explained in my first post and in the video. The execution of the command in the second macro is clipped by the recast timer and generates an error instead of executing ability. Everything in my post is independent of skill queues.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Legion88

Macros don't get into a skill queue, they are activated the moment they are in line in the macro.

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This is wrong as well.

Firstly macros aren't executed at all they are thrown into the chatbox they are not code. So there is no in line execution.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Legion88

This is intended to prevent that macros are used to automate the game.

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Look locking a macro for X.XX time will not allow people to automate the game any more or less than they do currently. It makes macros usable.

Your post was 100% wrong.

Next.

For you understanding:

THEY DON'T WANT TO HAVE EFFECTIVE MACROS FOR COMBATCLASSES.

They even said so in a LiveLetter long long ago in the early 2.x or even 1.x era.
It is intended by design.

You shouldn't have multiple combat actions in a macro with a wait command between them. That was why SE removed the tenth of a second granularity /wait used to have during beta. They WANT macros to be inefficient, so that you're not stringing actions together through them.

At most, a macro should have just one combat action that's expected to take place. The macro can be used for things like combining it with a notification to your party, or for choosing between multiple possible actions or targets (like do action x to either <t>, <tt>, or <mo> as appropriate). But if they worked well for using an action followed by another action followed by another action, then people could automate their rotations, which this is designed to prevent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lord_Miakeus

... recast timer clips abilities in a second macro you're spamming during the ~0.5 second interval...

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Then don't spam another macro during that time. If the first macro is still executing, starting another would break it, as you cannot have two macros running at once. (And for that matter, why would you spam any action in this game? You should only be pressing a button once for each time it's supposed to take effect.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

You shouldn't have multiple combat actions in a macro with a wait command between them. That was why SE removed the tenth of a second granularity /wait used to have during beta. They WANT macros to be inefficient, so that you're not stringing actions together through them.

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I don't think it's a matter of what Square Enix's design philosophy is. Its what we want as consumers of one of the most expensive games on the market. Not having effective combat macros in one of the most expensive combat based games out there is just hipster. Just hipster.

Should people want to spam their non-game breaking macros I think they are entitled to do just that. This change wont break the game. I'm not asking for a 0.5 second wait timer I'm asking for a macrolock timer which is different.

Don't get me wrong I love this game it's the macro implementation that makes this game irritating to play.

I want to spam macros and assume others do too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lord_Miakeus

Don't get me wrong I love this game it's the macro implementation that makes this game irritating to play.

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If you macro so many things that macros make the game "irritating to play", you're macroing too many things and playing the game wrong.

There is nothing to fix here--gamewise, anyway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lord_Miakeus

Its what we want as consumers of one of the most expensive games on the market.

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If there's one thing anyone in any service industry will tell you, it's that the customer is never right.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rongway

If you macro so many things that macros make the game "irritating to play", you're macroing too many things and playing the game wrong.

There is nothing to fix here--gamewise, anyway.

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What are you talking about? Saying there is nothing to fix. Having macros locked for recast periods comes standard in any modern MMO it just makes rational sense to do. I honestly don't understand how you can say I'm playing the game wrong if I'm macroing my abilities to a great extent. It is a game, games are for enjoyment and having advanced macros is my play style. This is how I have fun. If you meant that I'm not playing the game as intended then I'd have to say the intentions of the game designer are horrible.

If you prefer to hit every single ability in the game manually that's fine. You may like bashing rocks together too. Who am I to criticize?

Your original post (and the linked video) has single abilities macroed. This is not appropriate because it increases the time commitment for each action. Because macroed actions do not participate in the ability queue, they cannot be activated until they are clear of animation lock or cooldowns. This is intentional. Therefore, you should not macro single actions except in the case of (1) alternate targeting of heals or buffs via the tags <mo> (mouseover), <tt> (target of target), <f> (focus target), or <2>-<8> (party slots), which decreases the cognitive load of using an action on a party member or (2) automatically centering ground target abilities on a target entity, which is the unusual case of a macro actually saving time. Outside of these two scenarios, there is no good reason to have a macro that just executes one action.

Your second post shows a gross misunderstanding of the macro system, and this is fine for a new adventurer; we are explaining it to you so you understand. /macrolock does not take any arguments; you can verify this by typing "/? macrolock". The macrolock is not why your second macro refuses to fire. Your second macro refuses to fire because (a) you're firing it during the global cooldown and (b) its purpose is to execute an action that shares the global cooldown. Because of B, it will not execute the intended action until the global cooldown is complete. Raw ability buttons are not affected by this restriction because there is an action queue of max size 1, to which you can push new actions up to 0.5s before the action would actually be available. So during the last 0.5s of the GCD, you can press the button for another GCD action to queue it, and it will execute immediately upon completion of the global cooldown. These points are also intentional, and as Legion has tried to explain, it is to prevent automating optimal play.

So again, nothing is broken, and there is nothing to fix, gamewise.

Ok Rongway refuting your points.

• Basically in my youtube video I didn't want to confuse the viewer by showing them anything other than what macro clipping is in action.
• I've demonstrated my knowledge of how macro clipping comes about in my earlier posts. I don't even know what you're trying to achieve by stating that I have grossly misunderstood something when I haven't.

What if I want to error chain different abilities/spells. What if I want to fire off my defensive cooldowns and change my hotbar page in the same macro while locking all macros?

I can do this currently with the current macro implementation.

The macros that I've created unfortunately clip each other.

Putting a macrolockrecast into the game makes combat macros spammable and is a fundamental element in any MMO's macro implementation. We don't have it in this game which is faulty game design. Plain and simple.

Do they want combat macros or not?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lord_Miakeus

... Putting a macrolockrecast into the game makes combat macros spammable and is a fundamental element in any MMO's macro implementation. We don't have it in this game which is faulty game design. Plain and simple.

Do they want combat macros or not?

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No, making macros spammable is not a fundamental element in any macro implementation, much less MMOs specifically. Not having it isn't faulty game design, it's preferential game design. They do NOT want combat macros in the way you do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lord_Miakeus

• Basically in my youtube video I didn't want to confuse the viewer by showing them anything other than what macro clipping is in action.
• I've demonstrated my knowledge of how macro clipping comes about in my earlier posts. I don't even know what you're trying to achieve by stating that I have grossly misunderstood something when I haven't.

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You don't seem to undestand what macro clipping is.
If you have a macro that does the following:

Code:

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/ac (Raise) <mo> <wait.1>
/p (Raise) >> <mo> (Just used it.)
/micon (Raise)

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When you press it, it will try to Raise someone, then wait 1 second, then notify the party.
If you spam the button, it will run line 1 repeatedly until you stop spamming the button, because each subsequent button press interrupts the 1s wait. This is useful so that you don't spam the party with your Raise message. Once you stop spamming the button, the final iteration of the macro will run to completion and notify the party of the Raise.


Or a crafter might have a macro that performs a series of crafting actions.

Code:

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/ac (Comfort Zone) <wait.3>
/ac (Tricks of the Trade) <wait.3>
/ac (Inner Quiet) <wait.3>
/ac (Tricks of the Trade) <wait.3>
/ac (Steady Hand II)

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If you activate any other macro during those waits, it will abort the crafting macro and begin executing the new macro instead.


The /macrolock command prevents this from happening. If you insert it before the first line, then you will be unable to use any other macros until the crafting macro reaches the final line. This is definitely a bad idea in the Raise example, and probably not a terrible idea in the crafting example.

The lock releases immediately upon execution of the final line, and does not wait for any animations or cooldowns to expire.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lord_Miakeus

Putting a macrolockrecast into the game makes combat macros spammable and is a fundamental element in any MMO's macro implementation.

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/macrolock's purpose is specifically to make macros not spammable, to protect yourself from interrupting important action sequences.

But even then, as I said above, /macrolock doesn't care what animations or cooldowns are happening. It just wants to reach the last line and send it to execution.



What you are actually experiencing is how macros are excluded from the ability queue (see my previous post and this handy visual aid).
http://i.imgur.com/tgp8LMb.png



In your original post,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lord_Miakeus

Code:

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/macrolockrc 2.5
/ac "Hard Slash"

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This would lock the macro for the recast period of hard slash.

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You are proposing a "solution" to a problem that doesn't exist. That is, subsequent macros are already allowed to fire as soon as the macro reaches the Hard Slash line, regardless of whether or not it successfully activates Hard Slash. If you're having problems firing a second macro, it's not because of a /macrolock. It's because whatever abilities are in your second macro don't participate in the ability queue.



What you really need to do is abandon any hope for executing efficient sequences of combat actions, because the system is specifically designed so that it doesn't give you this advantage. If you want to execute combat actions efficiently, you have to do it manually. You can't script the game to play itself for you, unless you're willing to sacrifice a significant portion of your DPS.



And forget this nonsense:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lord_Miakeus

Putting a macrolockrecast into the game makes combat macros spammable and is a fundamental element in any MMO's macro implementation. We don't have it in this game which is faulty game design. Plain and simple.

Do they want combat macros or not?

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Efficient macros are not fundamental to anything; they're a convenience, and can come with whatever costs the devs want to levy, and they choose to make it so you can't be good if the game is playing itself for you. Plain and simple.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rongway

You don't seem to undestand what macro clipping is.

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I don't have time to counterpoint your horrible post. I've defined macro clipping at the beginning of this thread. It is not an official term and I wont let you redefine it on me. Your first examples have nothing to do with macrolock or combat macros which means they are outside of the scope of this thread. Your images demonstrate how queuing and macros work, amazingly, despite how flashy this is it is outside of the scope of this thread and a waste of my time.

As much as I enjoyed being not enlightened on aspects of macros I had already researched and accused of being ignorant yet again I have to point out that this thread is about what people want not what the devs want.

You have demonstrated perfectly how flash impressed the masses rather than logic which I suppose why the human race is ultimately doomed to destroy itself. Please stop posting completely. For humanity.

Macros aint lines of code?!?!
Da hell are they then? Nusery rhymes?!