[Request] Opt out of the Echo buff via Duty Finder

Good afternoon!

I would like for players to have the opportunity to opt out (or opt in) to the Echo Buff in Minimum Item Level and Level Sync duties via the Duty Finder settings dialog if possible. While I understand that it is possible to remove the buff manually from within instances, the process becomes tedious (or even unwieldy) for the entire group to do this before each consecutive pull.

This would mainly serve as a quality of life fix for groups seeking to challenge themselves to close-to-original iterations of 8-man content.

This is an awesome idea!

Obviously the devs are super busy with Stormblood being released so recently but if we could get a feature like this, even as late as patch 4.2 or 4.3, I would be very happy with it.
I'm not a developer but I can't imagine it would be a terribly difficult thing to do either.

Great idea Pookajutsu!

Fantastic idea! I'm all for any option that can present more and better options for people to play, and further convenience in setting up content at its original form definitely fits within that.

This would be poor use of dev hours, given that

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pookajutsu

it is possible to remove the buff manually from within instances

---

and doing this takes about half a second.

the only problem with removing the buff is people don't want to do it or it shows up every time and doesn't recognized that hey you do not want to be buffed by the echo you turned it off 18 times but we will be sure to buff you anyway ok. so i agree with an echo toggle for the player or an all out legacy mode that just never has the echo. i clearly don't want the echo anymore to exist but i know it has it's purpose so i will deal with it and proudly take it off every single time manually.

I don't understand why this little option isn't already a thing !

I like to play in Minimum Item Level mode a lot, and the existence of this buff in this mode is both absurd and VERY annoying !

Give us an option to block Echo from activating other than click it off manually for EACH pull !

UP !

That thing still is super annoying, especially when playing with players who don't know how to remove a buff and trying to indroduce them to minimum item level.
We ofter spend between 5 or 10 minutes to try to explain them the problem at each session ! (Sometines we can't even speak their language....)

Make ECHO disappear in minimum item level, or at least give a specific option to prevent it to appear. PLEASE !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grann-Goro

especially when playing with players who don't know how to remove a buff ... We ofter spend between 5 or 10 minutes to try to explain them the problem at each session ! (Sometines we can't even speak their language....)

---

It's in the autotranslator.

(/statusoff) (The Echo)

Slash-S-T-A-T-Tab-Enter-space-T-H-E-space-E-C-tab-enter


Macro to disable Echo and ask your party members to do the same:

Code:

---

(/statusoff) (The Echo)
/p (/statusoff) (The Echo)
/p (Please use it.)

---

Thanks for this tip.
But I fear that a good number of people won't be able to understand that either sadly...
And even if they do, it's still super annoying to remind everyone to do this after each wipe !

Besides, the problem often is even more annoying with people who play on PS4 and who don't have a keyboard...
They almost everytime have no idea on how to remove a buff (and I can't really help them myself).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grann-Goro

Besides, the problem often is even more annoying with people who play on PS4 and who don't have a keyboard...
They almost everytime have no idea on how to remove a buff (and I can't really help them myself).

---

You don't need a keyboard to remove a buff, and if things are lost in translation then no amount of peripherals can change that. In the mean time the only thing you can do is just try to explain it or put more restrictions on any parties you form so there is less issues.

Yes I know it's possible to remove a buff with a PS4 controller, but the method for that is more difficult to explain.

And even when there is no language issue :
- Some people don't even know about the very existence of the Echo and it takes time to explain them what it is.
- Some people don't even know what a "buff" is and where they are on their screen.
- Some people don't even use the chat and they don't answer at all when we're trying to speak with them...

I try to indicate this issue in my PFs for quite some time now, but people still don't understand (or don't read).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grann-Goro

But I fear that a good number of people won't be able to understand that either sadly...

They almost everytime have no idea on how to remove a buff (and I can't really help them myself).

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grann-Goro

Yes I know it's possible to remove a buff with a PS4 controller, but the method for that is more difficult to explain.

And even when there is no language issue :
- Some people don't even know about the very existence of the Echo and it takes time to explain them what it is.
- Some people don't even know what a "buff" is and where they are on their screen.
- Some people don't even use the chat and they don't answer at all when we're trying to speak with them...

---

Put (/statusoff) (The Echo) in your PF comment, and say it in /p when they join, to confirm. If they don't understand this, they are not people who want to run content the way you want to run it.

There is no issue here regarding understanding or explanation. Again, if they don't understand, your goals absolutely do not align.

Yes, I suppose I could have this point of view...
... except that my PFs aren't only made to find people who share my goal.

My purpose also is to present the minimum item level mode to people, especially to new players who never had the opportunity to properly experience some content and who are curious to play content that require a little challenge without being "extreme" and requiring 50+ wipes.

That's why an option to prevent Echo from appearing - or its complete disappearance in minimum item level - would be a great thing to me, especially because I think that the very existence of the Echo in minimum item level is absurd !
(I mean, if I want to play in "easy mode", I would play in normal sync, not in minimum item level !)

The thing is that, even with a 10% Echo only, some trials are ruined. The coordination they normally require instantly vanish (Steps of Faith for instance).

Up !

I may be stubborn with this idea, but me and all the people I met feel the same way.

The very existence of the Echo when the "Minimum item level" option is activated is absurd !
Nobody wants to play with both the Minimum item level option AND the Echo !
It makes no sense at all !


Please Square, can you finally fix this little thing ?
I mean, it's only two lines of code to add in the game, literally !

Something like :

If minimum item level = true
then /statusoff The Echo to party

BUMP for 2019

Having recently started doing min ilvl content it really does seem wrong for the Echo buff to exist on those, the whole idea of running at min ilvl is to make it a challenge, to see how it was intended. For the Ex trials and raids you will wipe (alot) and having to remind everyone to remove the buff each time gets annoying.

Console players appear to have a slightly convoluted way of removing buffs which increases the length of time it takes.

As mentioned in a previous comment sometimes getting the message across to other players is nigh-impossible, JEDF doesn't cover all the languages people use and so you can't rely on auto-translate.

Yes we get around those problems with persistence and talk but the better solution would be to simply remove "The Echo" buff from min ilvl or if that implementation is too difficult add a new option along the lines of "Suppress The Echo buff on duty wipe"

I echo this sentiment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rongway

Put (/statusoff) (The Echo) in your PF comment, and say it in /p when they join, to confirm. If they don't understand this, they are not people who want to run content the way you want to run it.

There is no issue here regarding understanding or explanation. Again, if they don't understand, your goals absolutely do not align.

---

As much as I'd love to agree with you, I can't. As someone who spends a lot of time doing echoless runs, and other unusual things, the capacity for people to not understand simple instructions amazes me.

If they don't know what a buff is, or what The Echo is (the latter of which is quite common), it takes time to explain. It you can't speak their language, auto translate doesn't help solve that issue. Just saying /statusoff "The Echo" isn't goint to help them understand what the hell The Echo is.

A lot of people also don't understand how to use text commands. Sending a text commands without the instructions on how to use it also will flop in auto translate. It may seem obvious to you, but to someone who has no idea what text commands are, they can't make the mental jump to understanding that they need to enter that text in the text box. Even if they do, they may went it wrong, using a space, or just sending the autotranslate chat again. Our base instinct when we don't understand is to mimic. But since it's impossible to write the command as you would in chat without it executing, we have to write it as an example, then specify IN ENGLISH "Write this in your chat box exactly as is with no spaces", which they don't understand so it gets nowhere.

The trouble with explanations is that they are usually only clear in our own heads. That's one reason why not everyone is a good teacher, and even if they are, they often aren't for all subjects. Explaining in such a way that someone who has no prior knowledge understands is not as easy as people tend to imagine.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NocturniaUzuki

As much as I'd love to agree with you, I can't. As someone who spends a lot of time doing echoless runs, and other unusual things, the capacity for people to not understand simple instructions amazes me.

---

I don't know how many other ways I can say, "If they don't know how to turn off the echo, they obviously don't want to do an Echo-less run".

If you have to explain it, they're not your target audience. On join, confirm that they want to fight without Echo. If they're there because they want to run without Echo, they will already understand what you mean. If they don't understand, replace them.

It's about that simple. If you don't want to explain or feel like you can't explain, then don't. Your goals and their goals are not the same.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rongway

I don't know how many other ways I can say, "If they don't know how to turn off the echo, they obviously don't want to do an Echo-less run".

If you have to explain it, they're not your target audience. On join, confirm that they want to fight without Echo. If they're there because they want to run without Echo, they will already understand what you mean. If they don't understand, replace them.

It's about that simple. If you don't want to explain or feel like you can't explain, then don't. Your goals and their goals are not the same.

---

That much, I can actually agree with. For some reason I missed that part in your previous message.

If it's before the fight, yes one can boot people who don't respond to the no echo warning. Though that brings us to the issue of how long it takes to find a party for such things. That's a whole other can or worms, though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rongway

I don't know how many other ways I can say, "If they don't know how to turn off the echo, they obviously don't want to do an Echo-less run".

If you have to explain it, they're not your target audience.

---

Again, that's not THAT simple....

In my experience, a good number of people really ARE interested by Echo-less run, but only after you reveal to them its existence and/or that it can be removed.

Some people don't even know that Echo exists, but once they know, they are ok to remove it.
Some people know that Echo exists and would like to turn it off, but they simply don't know it's possible or how to do it.
... And in that case, we loose a lot of time to explain all of this (especially if multiple people in the group are concerned, or when there's a language barrier).

And here I only talked about random groups.

The thing is that this Echo is ALSO very annoying with static groups !

Having to think to turn this damn thing off and to check every member of the group every five minutes (after each try) is very frustrating in the long run !
(You don't know how much until you've experienced it...)

And besides all of this, I tell it once more :
Even if the Echo has a good purpose in normal sync, it has absolutely no purpose in minimum item level and shouln't even exist in this mode !

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grann-Goro

In my experience, a good number of people really ARE interested by Echo-less run, but only after you reveal to them its existence and/or that it can be removed.

---

Yes, but if you can't explain how it works to someone, then you don't want to run min-iLv raids/trials with them. Because if you can't explain something as simple as 'type /statusoff "the Echo"' or 'right-click the muscle pose buff' then you won't be able to communicate effective mechanics, and running raids/trials at min-iLv without effective communication is just asking for a bad time. So I stand by my judgement.

Quote:

---

Even if the Echo has a good purpose in normal sync, it has absolutely no purpose in minimum item level and shouln't even exist in this mode !

---

There may be some people who want to run min-iLv and still benefit from echo. Do you agree that this is a good reason to keep it? Probably not. But it's conceivable that some people might want that. Your solution would exclude them from running the content the way they want. Leaving things the way they are doesn't exclude you from doing the content the way you want, much as it may inconvenience you to run it your way.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rongway

Yes, but if you can't explain how it works to someone, then you don't want to run min-iLv raids/trials with them. Because if you can't explain something as simple as 'type /statusoff "the Echo"' or 'right-click the muscle pose buff' then you won't be able to communicate effective mechanics, and running raids/trials at min-iLv without effective communication is just asking for a bad time.

---

That's not true.
Normal trials/raids can be done without real communication about mechanics, even in minimum item level.
When I do this kind of trials/raids, we spend sometimes more time explaining the "Echo thing" than completing the trial itself...

Of course, if I want to do harder content than normal, I will create a specific group for it.
But then, the "other" problem comes into play :

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Grann-Goro

Having to think to turn this damn thing off and to check every member of the group every five minutes (after each try) is very frustrating in the long run !

---

So an option in the duty finder to completely diseable the Echo would be a great thing.

A BIG THANK YOUUU !!!

Your going to need echo with all bad players coming to FFXIV. Today from them wiped 5 times in Labyrinth of the Ancients because nether team A or B had clue what to do during boss fights and how to use pads.

Teach them and be patient !
As an experienced player in a team-based game, it's your role !

However, if you only play for yourself and with random people you don't care about, you can't use the "echo off" option anyway, so don't worry too much...
(As a reminder, roulettes exist to join new players who queue for a specific dungeon)