Why does a Rank 10 Chocobo heal more than a BiS SCH's Fairy?

Who actually balances healers at SE? Do they have parses? Do they know what HPS (heals per second) is? Are they even aware that fairy is so bad now that a chocobo is doing well? Can we get a chocobo that can out DPS Bahamut?

I am blown away that these people still have jobs. Who approves this? YoshiP is meticulous about who he's hires? He must be hiring amateurs who have never played an MMO.

Because a chocobo is supposed to be "1 healer" to tanks/DPS that use it ?

While your fairy is only "part of your healing abilities" ...

Makes perfect sense actually ...

Unless people can bring a chocobo over you to raids, don't see anything worth ranting about ...

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Originally Posted by MercureXI

Because a chocobo is supposed to be "1 healer" to tanks/DPS that use it ?

While your fairy is only "part of your healing abilities" ...

Makes perfect sense actually ...

Unless people can bring a chocobo over you to raids, don't see anything worth ranting about ...

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It just shows how bad the fairy is, if Fey Union and Embrace are both being beaten by a Chocobo. Again, where is the DPS chocobo who parses significantly higher than Demi-Bahamut?

Use common sense here : Chocobo is supposed to help you when you solo/low man some casual content.

All classes can DPS to some extent, so DPS chocobo doesn't need to be "that great", while most jobs don't have access to healing spells.

That's quite ok to have a companion that heals well enough to support you when you do garbage content like FATEs, etc

What's the big deal here ? SAMs getting heals during FATEs ?

No chocobo will replace you, and a chocobo being a better healer than a fairy doesn't change meta AT ALL ...

A chocobo thats designed to help you fight open world trash being superior to Eos and Selene shows how badly they were nerfed. Outside of Eos's AoE HoT the fairies feel almost useless with how little healing they put out.

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Originally Posted by MercureXI

Use common sense here : Chocobo is supposed to help you when you solo/low man some casual content.

All classes can DPS to some extent, so DPS chocobo doesn't need to be "that great", while most jobs don't have access to healing spells.

That's quite ok to have a companion that heals well enough to support you when you do garbage content like FATEs, etc

What's the big deal here ? SAMs getting heals during FATEs ?

No chocobo will replace you, and a chocobo being a better healer than a fairy doesn't change meta AT ALL ...

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Chocobos parse well under 1.5k DPS but their HPS is significantly higher. A duo of a DRK and WAR can solo 8 man treasure maps with just their chocobos and make it in time for the DPS check. Two healers cannot do this, by contrast. Why? The Chocobos don't output nearly as much damage as they heal. It is a little sad that they outheal the fairy's embrace by nearly double the value. Even Fey Union scores just a bit higher (with the "bugged" version hitting nearly +80% of that, but that will likely be patched out.

The main concern is, a Rank 10 Chocobo outheals your fairy, even with Rouse.

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

The main concern is, a Rank 10 Chocobo outheals your fairy, even with Rouse.

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Again : no, sorry, not at all !

The main problem is not chocobo "outhealing your fairy" ... but your fairy "maybe" being being over-nerfed for 4.0.

Chocobos healing more than a fairy is not a problem at all, never was, never will be ...

You can/might rant about fairies requiring a boost, but this has nothing to do with chocobos ...

The Fairy's potency was nerfed by 50, I'd hardly call that a "huge nerf". The fairy is still 100 points higher than Regen, free, and has a 100 potency aoe regen (only 50 weaker than Regen albeit on cd), aoe esuna, aoe ss boost, aoe healing buff that effects the other healers in part too, silence, and a magic defense boost. Fairies are still pretty powerful, unless there was some ninja nerf not mentioned in the patch notes/job guide.

On topic, this is stupid since the chocobo can't participate in ANY content and is designed as a healer for the black mage than can only physick for 500 hp. If healers could only do 300 dps, chocobos would do as much dps as bahamut. most dps can't break 500 hps, so the chocobo compensates when solo. don't be ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by GunksFoy

The Fairy's potency was nerfed by 50, I'd hardly call that a "huge nerf". The fairy is still 100 points higher than Regen, free, and has a 100 potency aoe regen (only 50 weaker than Regen albeit on cd), aoe esuna, aoe ss boost, aoe healing buff that effects the other healers in part too, silence, and a magic defense boost. Fairies are still pretty powerful, unless there was some ninja nerf not mentioned in the patch notes/job guide.

On topic, this is stupid since the chocobo can't participate in ANY content and is designed as a healer for the black mage than can only physick for 500 hp. If healers could only do 300 dps, chocobos would do as much dps as bahamut. most dps can't break 500 hps, so the chocobo compensates when solo. don't be ridiculous.

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Fairies only have about 60-70% of healing potency as the Scholar does. So Embrace is more like 180 potency iirc. Its not 250.

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Originally Posted by Emitans

Fairies only have about 60-70% of healing potency as the Scholar does. So Embrace is more like 180 potency iirc. Its not 250.

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Source on that? SE says 250, so that's what I'm basing that off of. Regardless, if that's true, it was still only a ~50 potency nerf as it would be been less than 300 before.

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Originally Posted by GunksFoy

The Fairy's potency was nerfed by 50, I'd hardly call that a "huge nerf". The fairy is still 100 points higher than Regen, free, and has a 100 potency aoe regen (only 50 weaker than Regen albeit on cd), aoe esuna, aoe ss boost, aoe healing buff that effects the other healers in part too, silence, and a magic defense boost. Fairies are still pretty powerful, unless there was some ninja nerf not mentioned in the patch notes/job guide.

On topic, this is stupid since the chocobo can't participate in ANY content and is designed as a healer for the black mage than can only physick for 500 hp. If healers could only do 300 dps, chocobos would do as much dps as bahamut. most dps can't break 500 hps, so the chocobo compensates when solo. don't be ridiculous.

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You don't play Scholar, so I'll let you in on a few secrets.

Embrace at BiS 70, heals for 100 points more than a i265 SCH. i315 vs i265 is 100 points.
Fey Union heals for about 90% more than Embrace (2.9k vs 5.5k). It only heals for 9k when you meld Direct Hit (which seems to bug the fairy's fey union to scale off of the player's stats. Will be fixed and it will go back to being even more useless than Dissipation).

Fairy stats != Player stats. You look at the fairy and think "Aww, it's only 50 points weaker than Medica 2! It's not so bad!" except you fail to realize that even if it was the same potency as Medica 2, it'd heal for 30% less and also has 30% uptime vs 100%.

The fact that you mention Fey Wind as a positive shows me that have no idea what you are talking about. Fun fact. A BLM (who benefits the most from haste), would have to cast Fire IV nearly 20x to get a free cast due to Fey Wind. Silence? Lord. Go and play Scholar then come back. You're embarrassing yourself.

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Originally Posted by GunksFoy

Source on that? SE says 250, so that's what I'm basing that off of. Regardless, if that's true, it was still only a ~50 potency nerf as it would be been less than 300 before.

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I cant find the source but they did make a change with HW that affects pet healing. If I find it I will update but it is pretty common knowledge if you search the interwebs. For instance my adlo which hits for 300 potency healed for more than my fairy in HW but they both had the same potency. This change was not undone in SB.

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Originally Posted by Lildragora

I cant find the source but they did make a change with HW that affects pet healing. If I find it I will update but it is pretty common knowledge if you search the interwebs. For instance my adlo which hits for 300 potency healed for more than my fairy in HW but they both had the same potency. This change was not undone in SB.

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He believes that pet stats and player stats are the same. Probably thinks SMN's Ruin is weaker than Garuda's autoattack (100 vs 110 potency, right guys?)

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

You don't play Scholar, so I'll let you in on a few secrets.

Embrace at BiS 70, heals for 100 points more than a i265 SCH. i315 vs i265 is 100 points.
Fey Union heals for about 90% more than Embrace (2.9k vs 5.5k). It only heals for 9k when you meld Direct Hit (which seems to bug the fairy's fey union to scale off of the player's stats. Will be fixed and it will go back to being even more useless than Dissipation).

Fairy stats != Player stats. You look at the fairy and think "Aww, it's only 50 points weaker than Medica 2! It's not so bad!" except you fail to realize that even if it was the same potency as Medica 2, it'd heal for 30% less and also has 30% uptime vs 100%.

The fact that you mention Fey Wind as a positive shows me that have no idea what you are talking about. Fun fact. A BLM (who benefits the most from haste), would have to cast Fire IV nearly 20x to get a free cast due to Fey Wind. Silence? Lord. Go and play Scholar then come back. You're embarrassing yourself.

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Except you're the one embarassing yourself : he only stated (and he is right) that one of the 4.0 nerfs on fairy was a 50 pts potency reduction, which is accurate.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/scholar/

And he is not the one ranting about chocobos being better healers than fairies, which is virtually a non-issue and never will become one unless chocobos steal your spot in a raid !

Ask for a fairy boost, and that's it ... Good news though : it's has been asked long before this thread appeared ... so ... what's the point really ? A chocobo killed your parents or something ?

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

snip

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Lol. If you bothered to look at my profile, I have a 60 scholar. I've played Sch plenty, and as everyone knows, it was OP in 3.0. The de facto healer. It was also OP in 2.x.

Perhaps the fairy potency does need bumped back up, but regardless it was nerfed because a sch could essentially swap to cleric stance and never touch a heal while the fairy functioned as the off healer.

Again, I'd like to see a source on this. But either way it's free healing that you don't even have to target. The fairy has 100% uptime, so not real sure what you mean on that. Medica II ticks every 3s while the fairy casts eveyr 3s albeit below a certain threshold.

Fun fact for you, over the course of 3 minutes a black mage will cast nearly 40 Fire IVs, meaning that the 1m 30s that fey wind would be active during that time you would get that free cast. Regardless of how many casts it takes, it's still a free speed boost that neither of the other healers have. Silence hasn't been useful since Turn 1 of Coil, but it had its place. I believe the only person embarrassing themself is the person arguing that the chocobo is too strong.

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

He believes that pet stats and player stats are the same. Probably thinks SMN's Ruin is weaker than Garuda's autoattack (100 vs 110 potency, right guys?)

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It would be nice if they were comparable, since the fairy is a dedicated healing tool and not something to supplement solo content.

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Originally Posted by MercureXI

Except you're the one embarassing yourself : he only stated (and he is right) that one of the 4.0 nerfs on fairy was a 50 pts potency reduction, which is accurate.

http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/jobguide/scholar/

And he is not the one ranting about chocobos being better healers than fairies, which is virtually a non-issue and never will become one unless chocobos steal your spot in a raid !

Ask for a fairy boost, and that's it ... Good news though : it's has been asked long before this thread appeared ... so ... what's the point really ? A chocobo killed your parents or something ?

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Except he is directly comparing the potency to Regen vs Embrace, using the 100 potency higher on Embrace as some sort of validation, as if Embrace is healing for more than Regen? It isn't. He is overselling the fairy's raw healing which is a mistake a lot of players who know nothing about Scholar often do. They seem to believe the fairy is this magical oGCD machine which heals everything perfectly, forgetting that the SCH's actual healing kit is significantly weaker than the others as it is (intended) to be balanced around use of the fairy. He claims it is hardly a nerf but literally 50 ilvls higher, the fairy is just barely healing for what they did in 3.X and HP pools are nowhere near the same.

The chocobo is used as an example to show how far the fairy has fallen.

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Originally Posted by GunksFoy

it's still a free speed boost that neither of the other healers have.

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Pls stop right there. Arrow exists and is infinitely better than Fey Wind.

Also, who cares about Fey Wind as a fairy "strength" when AoE Balance exists?

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

The chocobo is used as an example to show how far the fairy has fallen.

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Very bad example then ...

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

Snip

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I don't have the game in front of me right now, but the fairy is pretty comparable to Regen, or at least it was. But the fairy in 3.x could more or less solo heal most content outside raids and EX trials while the sch dps'd, and there are Sch mains all over the place claiming this. The fairy clearly needed a nerf and it got it. Even if the fairy is weak compared to Regen or whatever, the Sch is still a highly capable healer.

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Originally Posted by GunksFoy

Lol. If you bothered to look at my profile, I have a 60 scholar. I've played Sch plenty, and as everyone knows, it was OP in 3.0. The de facto healer. It was also OP in 2.x.

Perhaps the fairy potency does need bumped back up, but regardless it was nerfed because a sch could essentially swap to cleric stance and never touch a heal while the fairy functioned as the off healer.

Again, I'd like to see a source on this. But either way it's free healing that you don't even have to target. The fairy has 100% uptime, so not real sure what you mean on that. Medica II ticks every 3s while the fairy casts eveyr 3s albeit below a certain threshold.

Fun fact for you, over the course of 3 minutes a black mage will cast nearly 40 Fire IVs, meaning that the 1m 30s that fey wind would be active during that time you would get that free cast. Regardless of how many casts it takes, it's still a free speed boost that neither of the other healers have. Silence hasn't been useful since Turn 1 of Coil, but it had its place. I believe the only person embarrassing themself is the person arguing that the chocobo is too strong.

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You claim to play SCH but need a source on fairy numbers? Did you level with PotD? Your ignorance is amazing. Do you actually believe that fairy stats are the same as players? If so, please leave and come back when you've educated yourself. I'm not here to explain to you, yet again, that they are not the same. If you actually have a 60 SCH (can't be bothered to checked. You could have a level 80 SCH from 5.0 and I wouldn't trust what you say with that level of knowledge), go and cast Physick then cast Embrace. Do some basic math on the numbers. What is 75% of my physick? (400 potency vs 300). If you're going to sit there and honestly say that Embrace scales 100% with a player's stats, if you're going to sit there are tell me you actually play SCH and believe that a 5k physick leads to a 3.7k Embrace, then I am actually done replying to you.

If you're not up to date on class basics, don't speak numbers and potencies with even an inkling of authority.

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Originally Posted by Fernosaur

Pls stop right there. Arrow exists and is infinitely better than Fey Wind.

Also, who cares about Fey Wind as a fairy "strength" when AoE Balance exists?

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Fair point, Arrow is better but also based on RNG. Balance isn't a fair comparison as it's an attack boost and not a speed boost. Balance is OP, but that's not the topic here now is it?

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Originally Posted by GunksFoy

I don't have the game in front of me right now, but the fairy is pretty comparable to Regen, or at least it was. But the fairy in 3.x could more or less solo heal most content outside raids and EX trials while the sch dps'd, and there are Sch mains all over the place claiming this. The fairy clearly needed a nerf and it got it. Even if the fairy is weak compared to Regen or whatever, the Sch is still a highly capable healer.

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Not like every healer couldn't do this with regen already anyways.. the only difference was that cleric stance needed to be pressed again. But that was made up by sheer burst from holy spam + assize / gravity spam.

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

You claim to play SCH but need a source on fairy numbers? Did you level with PotD? Your ignorance is amazing. Do you actually believe that fairy stats are the same as players?.

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I didn't claim that they were, I asked for a source saying they were "60% of the Sch's stats" as the other person claimed. The fairy isn't exactly weak.

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Originally Posted by GunksFoy

I didn't claim that they were, I asked for a source saying they were "60% of the Sch's stats" as the other person claimed. The fairy isn't exactly weak.

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60% is not exact, but 60-70% is extremely fair. Compare Adoloquium to Embrace (was the same potency, not anymore). You'll find that it is more than half, but not that much more. Any SCH who has healed to any degree of seriousness knows that Fairies are roughly 60-70% of your stats. Not to mention, comparing 3.0 healing to 4.0 healing is a bit strange. For one, healing has gotten a lot more interesting and interactive than before. Even when I am fully synced to a lower dungeon (as in ilvl can no longer make me stronger for this content), the fairy doesn't solo heal. It wasn't that SCH was OP in 3.0, it was that 3.0 was so weak with the healing requirements, especially near the end, that you could PUG Savage just fine, even on the first week.

"250" potency Embrace
http://i.imgur.com/xKpEpCF.png


150 potency Regen
http://i.imgur.com/4IiwerN.png
http://i.imgur.com/PCioG79.png
http://i.imgur.com/GGLEx3B.png

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

60% is not exact, but 60-70% is extremely fair. Compare Adoloquium to Embrace (was the same potency, not anymore). You'll find that it is more than half, but not that much more.

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Not a serious sch, so never really paid attention. But I logged rq just to check fairy vs Regen and the fairy is still 200-300 points higher per heal than Regen after the nerf. This gap would have been somewhat wider beforehand. I don't know about the fairy's stats, they clearly aren't the same as the healer but I wanted to see a source stating the 60% figure. If there's no exact number *shrug* I'll take your word for it. But I can think of many dungeons that I'm synced into that my fairy solo heals. Anything pre-Aurum Vale, for example. While 47 and under dungeons aren't a great example, that's a counter point to ilvl sync. Several high level dungeons can be solo healed by the fairy on normal pulls as well (not counting speed pulls/huge pulls as those aren't the way the dungeon was intended), with minor assistance from the sch on bosses. Sohm Al for example. Unless people are eating AoEs, the fairy can easily handle everything except the final boss tank buster where I might swap, throw a lustrate or two and a shield, then back to dps until the next one. I will give you that healing requirements were very low, but the fact that Sch was the de facto healer and the easiest to dps and heal with shows that it was OP, at least in direct comparison to the other healers.

IDK if we are talking about dungeons who even needs to heal when you have a 200 potency AoE that stuns lol.

Even in 3.X Whm was a better healer for dungeons if you had a group with actual competent DPS since things would end up dying before the Holy spam's stuns even wore off and before Sch's DoTs could even finish.

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Originally Posted by Emitans

"250" potency Embrace
http://i.imgur.com/xKpEpCF.png


150 potency Regen
http://i.imgur.com/4IiwerN.png
http://i.imgur.com/PCioG79.png
http://i.imgur.com/GGLEx3B.png

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This clearly has to do with gear scaling as I just logged into my 254 whm/sch and Regen hit for 1800-1900 while the Fairy was 2075-2200ish.

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Originally Posted by GunksFoy

Not a serious sch, so never really paid attention. But I logged rq just to check fairy vs Regen and the fairy is still 200-300 points higher per heal than Regen after the nerf. This gap would have been somewhat wider beforehand. I don't know about the fairy's stats, they clearly aren't the same as the healer but I wanted to see a source stating the 60% figure. If there's no exact number *shrug* I'll take your word for it. But I can think of many dungeons that I'm synced into that my fairy solo heals. Anything pre-Aurum Vale, for example. While 47 and under dungeons aren't a great example, that's a counter point to ilvl sync. Several high level dungeons can be solo healed by the fairy on normal pulls as well (not counting speed pulls/huge pulls as those aren't the way the dungeon was intended), with minor assistance from the sch on bosses. Sohm Al for example. Unless people are eating AoEs, the fairy can easily handle everything except the final boss tank buster where I might swap, throw a lustrate or two and a shield, then back to dps until the next one. I will give you that healing requirements were very low, but the fact that Sch was the de facto healer and the easiest to dps and heal with shows that it was OP, at least in direct comparison to the other healers.

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Those same pulls can be handled by a single regen, mathematically speaking. Cleric Stance complimented SCH well, but that's no longer an issue.

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Originally Posted by GunksFoy

This clearly has to do with gear scaling as I just logged into my 254 whm/sch and Regen hit for 1800-1900 while the Fairy was 2075-2200ish.

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Weird. For reference this is PotD floor 51 so my aetherpool is being synced to +55/+55 for SCH and WHM

https://puu.sh/wwiiN/d71c017dc8.jpg
https://puu.sh/wwijj/5275e6d8b0.jpg
https://puu.sh/wwijp/c941f8f88f.jpg
https://puu.sh/wwijA/9e6f328075.jpg
https://puu.sh/wwik8/39ca620249.jpg
https://puu.sh/wwilm/7c6131b62a.jpg

Regen is stronger. Please. Even my level 70 SCH wearing level 60 gear has their fairy heal for less.

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

Those same pulls can be handled by a single regen, mathematically speaking. Cleric Stance complimented SCH well, but that's no longer an issue.

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That's a fair point to make, however the fairy is still stronger than Regen if only slightly, and it remains free healing. On top of the other things the fairy can do. The Fairy is still a strong asset for Sch and will remain so. Whm is meant to be the power healer so it being stronger overall is fine. I don't know much about astro since mine is level 30, however it got some nice buffs with 4.0 from what I saw.

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Originally Posted by GunksFoy

That's a fair point to make, however the fairy is still stronger than Regen if only slightly, and it remains free healing. On top of the other things the fairy can do. The Fairy is still a strong asset for Sch and will remain so. Whm is meant to be the power healer so it being stronger overall is fine. I don't know much about astro since mine is level 30, however it got some nice buffs with 4.0 from what I saw.

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Fairy is weaker than Regen by itself. Regen can be cast on multiple people. Multiple regens (medica 2, asylum, etc) stack.

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

Fairy is weaker than Regen, Regen is multitarget and multiple regens (medica 2, asylum, etc) stack.

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Not to mention the other healers have more MP to throw around.

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

https://puu.sh/wwiiN/d71c017dc8.jpg
https://puu.sh/wwijj/5275e6d8b0.jpg
https://puu.sh/wwijp/c941f8f88f.jpg
https://puu.sh/wwijA/9e6f328075.jpg
https://puu.sh/wwik8/39ca620249.jpg
https://puu.sh/wwilm/7c6131b62a.jpg

Regen is stronger. Please. Even my level 70 SCH wearing level 60 gear has their fairy heal for less.

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This could be attributed to the fact that stats scale in a different way at higher levels. For example at level 60 your GCD may be 2.40 while at 61 in the same gear you would be 2.41. I literally just tested it and saw that Embrace was stronger. When I get home and have my PC instead of my laptop to test on I will take some screenshots and post them here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GunksFoy

This could be attributed to the fact that stats scale in a different way at higher levels. For example at level 60 your GCD may be 2.40 while at 61 in the same gear you would be 2.41. I literally just tested it and saw that Embrace was stronger. When I get home and have my PC instead of my laptop to test on I will take some screenshots and post them here.

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You don't have any proof. Even if Embrace was stronger, it doesn't change the fact that the Fairy is weak. SCH's entire healing kit got hit in some way but WHM and AST only got buffs. The gap in HPS is large.

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Originally Posted by Rubiss

You don't have any proof. Even if Embrace was stronger, it doesn't change the fact that the Fairy is weak. SCH's entire healing kit got hit in some way but WHM and AST only got buffs. The gap in HPS is large.

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As I said, I'll take some screenshots when I get home in a couple hours.

This may be, but the fairy is still a strong asset. Whm is meant to be the power healer with virtually no utility while sch has utility but weaker healing + shielding. Ast I can't attest to, but like i said, their buffs looked nice.

Erm, how do you see the divine seal going to 20%, or the loss of SS, or the loss of several mp management passives of WHM (medica, cure III, esuna), as buffs? (and other stuff, the list can go on...)
There may be justifications for those, but saying "whm only got buffs" while he was the healer that lost the most skills is sad.
The healer that didnt get nerfed was AST, outside the lower duration he has with lucid dream, he only got buffed. WHM was hit in several aspect, and got boosted on some others, as did sch.

The fairy was nerfed, but remember that sch now also have access to largesse.
Sch didnt have access to a "free" healing boost OGCD before. (fey illumination is eos only, and dissipation kills the fairy).
Same for the nerf to aetherflux, which,i think, is to compensate for the access to lucid dream.

If you think of the fairy as a free 100% uptime regen that auto targets the people with the lowest HP and has 0 mp cost....it heals fine. I think we were just spoiled by SCH being OP for so long.