Hi SquareEnix. How are you holding up? Oh yeah, YOU DIDN'T BALANCE IFRIT.

Seriously. I timed out with my party several times already even breaking it's horn.

Setup:

gld, 2 con, bunch of lnc and mrd.

If you're going to "balance" our classes please "balance" the bosses.

And by balance I mean nerf.

um...the classes are fine.

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Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

um...the classes are fine.

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What she said, if anything they trimmed the fat.

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Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

um...the classes are fine.

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Correction.

The classes while playable are considerably weaker while ifrit is as strong as it was before. I am not asking for the classes to be tweaked, but for ifrit.

3 THM 2 LNC 2 CNJ 1 GLA, beat it twice in a row with relative easy, setup is just changed, takes time to figure it out. Nothing is imbalanced about it.

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Originally Posted by Jennestia

What she said, if anything they trimmed the fat.

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Originally Posted by Mimiruu

3 THM 2 LNC 2 CNJ 1 GLA, beat it twice in a row with relative easy, setup is just changed, takes time to figure it out. Nothing is imbalanced about it.

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this .

Classes aren't too bad, but I still wouldn't mind some tweaks to discourage class stacking.

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Originally Posted by Mimiruu

3 THM 2 LNC 2 CNJ 1 GLA, beat it twice in a row with relative easy, setup is just changed, takes time to figure it out. Nothing is imbalanced about it.

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Any tips for MP sustainability as Thaum? I've been nuking on Conj lately, as I feel I can keep up mana for constant nuking much better than on Thaum. I generally try not to combo unless I know I will be getting a long period to rest, and just alternating Aero and Stone seem to top any Melee DD in damage on that fight with the right nuking gear.

Even still, if there is a good way to go around it as Thaum, I'd love to know. Just haven't had many chances to test it myself tonight.

Unfortunately anyone that's not lancer is boned. Combos get you too close as it is, and PUG just gets pooped on all fight by his little spammable AoE.

We've been doing this fight all this weekend with people switching out and trying out every class. My highest recommendation is to take time at the beginning to break a horn or two, otherwise the Regen drags out the fight quite a bit. Probably the biggest change is that, from what I saw, you really do want to break all the Infernal Nails now and drop the Hellfire damage significantly. It's possible to combo them, we weren't able to figure out how it decides what "direction" they are facing, but it seemed to be random. You can throw out a test WS or two and use the chat log to see what position you are attacking from and combo after finding out.

Also, I'd stay away from doing side combos at all except for when he uses Incinerate or Radiant Plume, as long as you can react quickly and get to and away from his side ASAP to avoid planting the edge of an eruption on the tank. Mages will probably want to increase their Magic Accuracy for consistent nukes.

Class-wise:

Glad: Extremely awesome tank for this fight, especially if you have Sanguine Rite. Hate shouldn't be an issue.

Mrd: Didn't get to try a MRD tank but it should be fine. DD-wise, stay at max AA range like before and you should be fine. Probably the easiest to combo with since you start off the combo with the side WS instead of it being in the middle of a combo like for LNC.

Lnc: I'd avoid combo-ing unless you are quick, like mentioned earlier. Stick with Doomspike otherwise.

Arc: Actually pretty useful now that their damage is great and they can combo without having to deal with positioning, so an ARC can probably solo an Infernal Nail. Be careful timing your shots.

Pgl: Still maybe the toughest class to play, but its DD is fine and improved Second Wind helps counteract Sear. Make sure to equip Gloom Arrow and/or Impulse Drive so you can try and break a horn.

Thm: In our runs THM was far and away the best DD, but it takes some practice to pace yourself throughout the fight so you don't get left having to stand around waiting for MP, although it recovers pretty damn quickly. The THM in our group suggested sticking only to Thunder > Thundara because it's more efficient than the whole chain against Ifrit. Make sure you save MP when Ifrit's HP starts getting low so you can solo the nail closest to you. There's one at each Mage "safe spot" so you should be fine wherever you are standing. Sanguine Rite can be used to reduce damage from Hellfire.

Cnj: Try to use Shroud of Saints as much as possible and keep Blissful Mind ready as much as possible. You shouldn't run out of MP unless you get really unlucky. Toss out Aero to try and keep the Bleed effect on Ifrit. Combos are risky, and I'd only do them unless the tank's HP is near-full and Ifrit is in the middle of the Radiant Plume animation. Once the nails are up, pop Cleric Stance and help break the one nearest to you with Combos, and remember to take it off once it's dead.

Good luck!

Me and another lancer went into ifrit, he better geared than I. I combo'd, he didnt. I did a full 5k dmg more than him (we still wiped around hellfire). Not combo-ing is a horrible idea, just need to time it and be careful after Hellfire.

I also think killing all 4 nails is a little more difficult now.. as we do crap damage on them.

PUG and MRD still get destroyed by being too close. Max auto-range is still too close for them.

It just takes some quick maneuvering to combo Ifrit because while you're on his side if you get targeted with Eruption you can potentially get the tank caught on it too. MRD has always been able to stay out of Sear range but the "safe" area is very VERY tiny. Either way I wouldn't call sear damage getting "destroyed". It's annoying for sure but it shouldn't be anything your mages can't handle as long as all the DDs have second wind and cure.

I'm glad this thread popped up. What once was a 5 minute fight is now 15. And it's not a fun 15 minutes like Moogle. It's the same boring, repetitive junk over and over.

Nothing apart from THM really works for the fight IMO.

I don't run out of mp on the ifrit fight(a little over 3800 mp with food), typically for the GLA sake I don't go to nuke crazy, and we let the dds get him down 2-3% before nuking. I like to Thunder,Thundara, parsimony Thundaga, then I at least wait for thundaga's recast timer, I do not spam the "thunder, thundara" portion until thundaga comes back, if we're going for "don't steal hate and conserve mp" if you're trying to mana burn that thing then spam, but if you're not, you gotta not go nuke crazy. When he pops the spikes I like to stoneskin then when he jumps I use sanguine right for the def and start curing as usual, if someone didn't eff up, should be done with the fight soon. I don't really help people with the spikes, I just let a couple dds do it, if my stoneskin is up maybe I'll fux with it, but I need to concentrate on not getting exploded so he doesn't kill my stoneskin (ANGRY FACE when that happens).

Honestly the classes is balanced, its the people that aren't, I haven't beaten ifrit due to simple mistakes of people during a fight (mainly people not paying attn to hellfire and wiping, and there's only 2-3 people alive and its not enought, or if you're tank died during hellfire >.<), not because the classes weren't balanced. And yes I rage :/


When we tried to stack thm's someone was like "why so many mages" LOL

Seriously, you just have to approach the fight differently and remain consistent. Now that you can't rely on chainspell Raises anymore you have to be very careful not to die. We've gotten our kill times to around what it was pre-patch with a varied group, after our first 1.20 kill left us with a minute or so left on the clock, so it's mostly getting used to new mechanics.

gld, con, con, arc, thm, thm, thm, thm beat him down in around 12 minutes and had some straggling thms; it was our first time doing ifrit as a group post patch and only did 2 fights. as the arc i came out top dps but thm definitely has more potential. fun fight running all around the back area!

there is a safe spot from plumes just to the left and a step forward from this green patch of like 3 rock looking things about 1/4 towards ifrit from where you enter. it's super far away and you can still shoot/cast. sweetspot!

I hear THM is really good against Ifrit now. :)

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Originally Posted by Majidah

Seriously. I timed out with my party several times already even breaking it's horn.

Setup:

gld, 2 con, bunch of lnc and mrd.

If you're going to "balance" our classes please "balance" the bosses.

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I'll ignore the high sarcasm in your post topic, and answer seriously:

I was in a pretty good group yesterday, we were pretty mixed class wise (2 conj 1 thm 1 mrd 1 pug 2 lnc)... Are you checking your party member's DD output? Meaning take a look at how fast Ifrit's health is going down... If it is slow, then you know you need to better your DPS output.

There is also the rare case where Ifrit just wants to keep jumping the whole fight, which is a complete pain in the neck.

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gld, 2 con, bunch of lnc and mrd.

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How the heck is your group balanced? A balanced group would be like 2 con 1 gla 1thm 2 lnc 1 pug 1 mrd. spamming lnc and mrd isn't exactly smart, because not every person who plays the mele class can do the job properly because of the difficulty the mele classes face during the fight.

Check your output, that should tell you whats the problem. Remember, mele classes do have the disadvantage when it comes to Ifrit.

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And by balance I mean nerf.

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Oh, and shall SE pass out Ifrit weapons just because a player feels entitled to it? I'm thankful for the difficulty involved in Ifrit, it weeds out the uncoordinated, underperforming players who could use a bit more edge on their game. Theres reasoning behind the Materia system, lets use a bit application here.

Everyone is really good if you are judicious with your combo use and don't do a side combo and kill other people with eruptions =P Thm is all about spike damage at a prime opportunity now so it's very suited for the Ifrit fight, but every other class works great now if you are careful. I've been pushing my DD'ing on CNJ while still being a main healer and it's helped speed up fights a bit.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

Seriously. I timed out with my party several times already even breaking it's horn.

Setup:

gld, 2 con, bunch of lnc and mrd.

If you're going to "balance" our classes please "balance" the bosses.

And by balance I mean nerf.

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sounds like yall are just bad or you should get a thrm, archer or pug in your party

I have done speed ( < 10min ) runs with all kinds of class setups, pugs, mrds, did a 13 min win the other day with 2 GLA (1 THM) cause our tank d/cd at the start of the fight.

Honestly the only way I can ever see people timing out on this fight is if people don't do their research and it becomes a perpetual raise cycle.

How much time do your DD spend hitting Ifrit and how much time do they spend on the floor.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

Correction.

The classes while playable are considerably weaker while ifrit is as strong as it was before. I am not asking for the classes to be tweaked, but for ifrit.

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Ifrit is hard, but when you get the hang of it, it becomes much more easy and you can adapt to situational changes faster. The key truly lies in the hands of the tank and the two healers.
If I was on your server, I would gladly join you and help you win the fight (only to get no totem or weapon, because the drops ARE insanely stupidly low).

Even the priority of the DD is the keep the conjurers and the tank alive when things turn out bad. How many times have I tossed a cure to help the nearby conjurer, it saved the day too. One time we were even down to only 3 DDs left alive! One kited Ifrit and we started raising the conjurers... we won the fight.

Then, just don't die and deal as much damage as you can.
I play as an archer by the way.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

Correction.

The classes while playable are considerably weaker while ifrit is as strong as it was before. I am not asking for the classes to be tweaked, but for ifrit.

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id say its player fault since i have gotten plenty of wins since patch. make sure theyre landing those combos.

This is our LS's most recent Ifrit run; with 1 GLA, 2CNJ, 5THM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV-gdAfDL7o

Although granted that it's still class stacking- kill speed is still just slightly slower than pre-1.20 with LNCs. The fight iteself hasn't changed, it's how people need to play now.

The benefit of having all DDs as ranged attackers is that it gives the GLA space to solo combos freely- significantly pushing up damage as well as hate. Aegis Boon and Second Wind isn't used for healing; it's used solely for hate generation. It's the tanks job to keep hate, and the CNJs job to keep tank alive. Our GLA here was also using select pieces of DD gear instead of tank gear along with DD abilities like Blood for Blood.

If the tank is doing his job right, hate is a non-issue for us. You can see me starting my thunder as soon as the GLA uses sentinel to start the fight: i.e) I'm casting before tank has even engaged Ifrit.

I also took every opportunity Ifrit WSs to cast thunder-> thundara; there wasn't a single time I waited for MP. Ifrit only dashed twice in this run too, once which was during nails; MP is a non-issue here, even if most of the THMs are standing in the 'melee' spot and running in and out of dash/eruptions rather than in the mage spot where you have the edge of recovering more MP- and I still found MP to sanguine rite everyone, and continue nuking after Hellfire.

A few people were new to the fight also; you can see a fira being cast in there. Lol.

Also, inb4omgthrewblade.

From what I see while tanking, GLA is still overpowered for this fight. Excessive hate generation, DD comparable to an above-average THM and near infinite MP with Sanguine if used.

CNJs have enough MP to cure and do a bit of nuking.

The boss doesn't need to be balanced. It's the server lag in the Ifrit arena that needs to be fixed.

Ifrit is easy once you learn how to get away from cracks your fine the issue here is you need two good healers who can heal the tank and get out of cracks also good tank who wont die fast and know how to hold hate the Dps have to know how to get out of the way also but beside that i done ifrit over 20+ even had 2-3 people dead for over 60% of the fight when he jump up you have more then enough time to get people up and stoneskin and heal up.

It took my linkshell a few weeks to get use to it but now it's a walk in the park :)

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

Ifrit is easy once you learn how to get away from cracks your fine the issue here is you need two good healers who can heal the tank and get out of cracks also good tank who wont die fast and know how to hold hate the Dps have to know how to get out of the way also but beside that i done ifrit over 20+ even had 2-3 people dead for over 60% of the fight when he jump up you have more then enough time to get people up and stoneskin and heal up.

It took my linkshell a few weeks to get use to it but now it's a walk in the park :)

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This. If you're PT can't dodge Eruptions, you're screwed. If your tank can't hold hate, you're screwed. Healers don't have to be stellar, but if they keep dying from Eruptions then you're screwed.

Last night we did GLA, 2 CNJ, 3 LNC, 2 THM and we were killing Ifrit pretty fast. Next time we do a run, I'm gonna switch to MRD.

The thing is you DON'T need class stacking, but some people just choose that specific class. As long as we get 2 CNJ's and a GLA, we pretty much don't care what your other class is as long as you can avoid eruptions and plumes. I honestly think with the recent change to abilities, Ifrit is more welcomed to all classes since CNJ's have very good mp controlling abilities and can heal and buff the melees.

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Originally Posted by Majidah

Seriously. I timed out with my party several times already even breaking it's horn.

Setup:

gld, 2 con, bunch of lnc and mrd.

If you're going to "balance" our classes please "balance" the bosses.

And by balance I mean nerf.

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Sounds like your dd just need to learn how to make the best use of their combos. I have been in an all lnc group since the update and it does take longer but its not impossible. Thm burns are def the fastest way to take him down now but there really dont need to be any changes made to the fight from the dev side, just from the player side.

I just did it like 7 times the other night and it was a cakewalk but all of us had done it many times before so we knew the fight pretty well.

Just did it as lancer. Didn't beat him (because the healers sucked) but I did the most dps, beating 3 thaumaturges lol

I hate to say it, but the Ifrit fight isn't terribly difficult anymore. If your group is experienced, and each member can avoid taking damage due to pulses and eruption, then you should be able to defeat Ifrit. I have beaten Ifrit with pugilists and marauders, so the DD class composition shouldn't make or break your chances.

As a lancer, I tend to stay away from combos until eruption, and even then I do them with caution. Waiting until 3000 TP and doing doomspike may lead to less DPS, but it is extremely safe to do. This encounter rewards caution; you do not need to have an extremely high DPS to defeat Ifrit.

Best setup:
1 Mrd or Glad
2 Cons
4 Thaums

That will give you a clean and beautiful win, but you also need to have the proper positioning and gear to be successful. Good luck!

Edit: You also can complete the fight with seven easily. Meaning drag a body in to help you enter or if a DD dc's. Only one you would want to have as the missing person would be a DD / Thaum.

Totally agree with you on it being 7 man-able. Once you can avoid damage consistently, you don't need the extra full party boost to complete it. This fight is more about avoiding huge amounts of spike damage than meeting the DPS threshold. If you feel that you need to break the horn to defeat Ifrit, you probably have other issues that are holding you back.