Lore Timeline?

I was wondering if anyone would know the time between Realm Reborn and Stormblood.
I want to know how many years lore wise has gone by.

Officially? None. The year is 1 Seventh Astral (as of the end of ARR's 2.0 patch) and will be 1 Seventh Astral in perpetuity. 2.0+ exists in a Simpsons-style time bubble where a narrative is happening in sequence but time has in essence stopped. The time bubble is a narrative device to make things easier on the developers so they don't have to keep updating their reference points each expansion. The twins are a good demonstration for this--they haven't aged since their introduction. Elezan age slower than humans, but not that much slower (its something like 75%-80% the rate of humans). This is a topic that turns up pretty frequently here so if any mention was made of the year actually changing the we would have been all over it (or I would have been at least).

Unoffically, however long you feel like.

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Originally Posted by Shea715

I was wondering if anyone would know the time between Realm Reborn and Stormblood.
I want to know how many years lore wise has gone by.

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None in fact, lore wise the story exists in a kind of time bubble where even though the player might seemingly grow with the passage of time gameplay wise, barely any time has passed storywise.

As an example, the development team confirmed that the time between the end of ARR patch 2.55's story and the start of Heavensward was merely a few days to a few weeks at most, and apparently barely more time than that passed between

Nidhogg-as-Estinien interrupting the peace conference at Falcon's Nest in 3.2's story and the end of the Dragonsong War at the Final Steps of Faith at the end of 3.4/

So most likely by Stormblood it's likely to have been barely six to eight months if that since the end of the Seventh Umbral Era. One of the loremasters would be able to clarify this further though, as I'm terrible with exact dates and times. :p

I'm actually having a private little crisis about this RIGHT NOW.

Solus zos Galvus died in 1 Seventh Astral Era. (Born 1489, lived 88 years, died 5 years after 1572)
The Doman rebellion took place during the War of Succession.
As of Stormblood, NPCs repeatedly say Doma fell exactly 25 years past. (1552)
As of Stormblood, NPCs repeatedly say Ala Mhigo fell exactly 20 years past. (1557)
As of Stormblood, NPCs repeatedly say the Doman rebellion was 1 year ago.

...wat?

My 4.0 notes are still in disarray but ... wat?

Am I wrong about something here?

Perhaps enough time has passed since the Rebellion that people have casually taken to referring to it as a year, even if it hasn't actually been literally that long? Like maybe two or three seasons, or something, so it's still TECHNICALLY the same year even if we're getting to the end of it.

This is FAIRLY plausible - people will typically refer to something from 9-10 months ago as being "last year", and I don't think it's too much of stretch for the events of ARR and Heavensward to have occurred over the course of that time. It will obviously get less and less plausible as time goes on, but for now, we might still be okay.

I'd say its been about 2 years given everything that's happened The time bubble is just a matter of gameplay story segregation.

I was just curious about it cuz I was wondering how old my character may have been if I were to say he was 20 at the start of Realm Reborn.
Seeing the Hyur look aged in the cinematic videos really made me wonder about it.

It's not unreasonable that the rebellion was a year ago. Now is as good a time as any to declare that the year is 2, 7A.

But if it were 2 7A, then we'd be at 26 years since Doma fell, and 21 years since the fall of Ala Mhigo. That's what's bugging Moose, and now me.

Perhaps that's the real reason the Encyclopaedia Eorzea timeline cuts off at 1572...

You could just put that down to people rounding the number up.

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Originally Posted by Fenral

But if it were 2 7A, then we'd be at 26 years since Doma fell, and 21 years since the fall of Ala Mhigo. That's what's bugging Moose, and now me

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Thank you, lol.

Important Note #1 Yes, it is the inconsistency that gives me pause. This is the only example of a concrete year of time movement (usually it's vague to preserve some semblance of normalcy) and it appears alongside other dates that did not move with it.

Important Note #2 Yes, it's entirely conceivable that more than a year of time has passed in the main scenario, but that's not the same thing as the open world experiencing a movement of time. Based on what we know, no matter what happens, even if you were to cram 5,000 days into the main scenario, the world shouldn't age into 2 Seventh Astral Era. It's a Simpsons-like "time-stoppage" to keep the text in order. If that changes, we need to know as soon as possible so we can start <winces at the thought> being ready to calculate what year things happened based on where the NPC is and when they were last updated when they say how long ago it was.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

I'm actually having a private little crisis about this RIGHT NOW.

Solus zos Galvus died in 1 Seventh Astral Era. (Born 1489, lived 88 years, died 5 years after 1572)
The Doman rebellion took place during the War of Succession.
As of Stormblood, NPCs repeatedly say Doma fell exactly 25 years past. (1552)
As of Stormblood, NPCs repeatedly say Ala Mhigo fell exactly 20 years past. (1557)
As of Stormblood, NPCs repeatedly say the Doman rebellion was 1 year ago.

...wat?

My 4.0 notes are still in disarray but ... wat?

Am I wrong about something here?

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You can still have a war of succession before said ruler dies... Especially if said ruler is unsure as who is strong enough to take the throne. Unfortunately he died before he could truly name a successor and voila the war continued.

Reviving an old thread (this subject has only become more complicated since) just to chime in that if we get veeeery technical we also don't know how long an Eorzean year is compared to an Earth year?

Timeline's a mess regardless.

We do know how long an Eorzean Year is. Every month has 32 days in it and there are 12 months in an Eorzean Year. So an Eorzean Year is 384 days long. The length of the months are tied to the movements of the moon.

The timeline is not a mess. There is a timeline of the 6th Astral Era in Lore Book 1 that gives years for the major events and the timeline is around four pages long. If anything, FFXIV has an unusually well-put together timeline compared to most games with lore this developed.

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Originally Posted by ObsidianFire

We do know how long an Eorzean Year is. Every month has 32 days in it and there are 12 months in an Eorzean Year. So an Eorzean Year is 384 days long. The length of the months are tied to the movements of the moon.

The timeline is not a mess. There is a timeline of the 6th Astral Era in Lore Book 1 that gives years for the major events and the timeline is around four pages long. If anything, FFXIV has an unusually well-put together timeline compared to most games with lore this developed.

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My bad on the year and day chart, forgot those existed. Honestly though I was with you until people in this thread started bringing up the Doman Rebellion being one year ago relative to other events. Started looking like snarls.

The writers really need to pop the time bubble (and adjust the story accordingly.) It's causing way more lore issues than it's preventing.

I think they could meet the vast majority of total complaints/grievances (from players and devs alike) by officially and firmly committing to a hierarchy:

Level 1
The in-game world is and will always be acting as if the present day is in 5 7UE into/also known as 1 7AE.
If you can prove that 100 days have passed, it will still act as if it's 1 7AE.
If you can prove that 1,000 days have passed, it will still act as if it's 1 7AE.


Level 2
This is merely a baseline date. This allows...

...all players to suspend disbelief about co-existing regardless of join date or story progress.

...time to pass without moving, precluding the necessary updating of thousands of lines of in-game, PR, website, etc. text.

...devs to avoid constantly re-calculating when making references to time (and thus avoid likely mistakes and fan confusion).

Level 3
All content that came out in a patch "happened" in that patch, even if you didn't do it. All patches are in chronological order.

e.g. All job quests up to LV50 happened before the Praetorium. The Binding Coil of Bahamut was explored after the Praetorium and before the arrival of Elidibus. The Labyrinth of the Ancients was explored between the arrival of Elidibus and the summoning of Leviathan. The Second Coil of Bahamut was explored around the same time as Leviathan appeared, but before the Ramuh debacle, which itself happened around the same time Syrcus Tower was explored. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Level 4
Every individual player has a blank check to decide for themselves how much time has been added to the baseline between any two patches.
No one can tell them they're wrong.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Level 3
All content that came out in a patch "happened" in that patch, even if you didn't do it. All patches are in chronological order. e.g. The Binding Coil of Bahamut was explored after the Praetorium and before the arrival of Elidibus. The Labyrinth of the Ancients was explored between the arrival of Elidibus and the summoning of Leviathan. The Second Coil of Bahamut was explored around the same time as Leviathan appeared, but before the Ramuh debacle, around the same time Syrcus Tower was explored. Etc. Etc. Etc.

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I think there's some evidence of this. Went back to hit Coil of Bahamut after MSQ everyone-is-in-a-coma situation. Besides the fact that various characters were present when technically they should have been totally unconscious, the way dynamics and references play out indicates that while the player is messing with order the event technically took place way earlier.

I don't mind playing out of order one bit, and some wiggle room is cool. But it would be nice if there was a bit of clarification imo haha.

Also, disclaimer--I don't have the lore books. I googled around to check but not much clarity.

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Originally Posted by Jaywalker

I think there's some evidence of this.

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I think so, too. I think around the time Nanamo "died" and Estinien joined the MSQ, they just accepted that trying to make excuses for doing things out of order wasn't going to work aside from the occasional spoiler-preventing text-swap flag. Forget Zombie Nanamo showing up to dinner if you do the LV50 CUL quest between 2.5 and 3.0 content, Estinien can be, at the same time, a guy in blue armor who's struggling to resist the Eye so he can kill Nidhogg (DRG LV30-50), and also a guy in red armor who is currently shaped like a shade of Nidhogg, who is already dead.

It's passive confirmation that that tier of the hierarchy exists loosely in practice, but not having a firm hand was a major contributing factor to the Darnus debacle, lol.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Level 1
The in-game world is and will always be acting as if the present day is in 5 7UE into/also known as 1 7AE.
If you can prove that 100 days have passed, it will still act as if it's 1 7AE.
If you can prove that 1,000 days have passed, it will still act as if it's 1 7AE.

Level 3
All content that came out in a patch "happened" in that patch, even if you didn't do it. All patches are in chronological order.[INDENT]e.g. All job quests up to LV50 happened before the Praetorium. The Binding Coil of Bahamut was explored after the Praetorium and before the arrival of Elidibus. The Labyrinth of the Ancients was explored between the arrival of Elidibus and the summoning of Leviathan. The Second Coil of Bahamut was explored around the same time as Leviathan appeared, but before the Ramuh debacle, which itself happened around the same time Syrcus Tower was explored. Etc. Etc. Etc.

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The problem is that the game is trying to do both of these at the same time, and everything just ends up being more confusing because of it. You can't have it both ways.

The only time I'd say having an "ordered time bubble" is a problem is when you first start playing the game and then everything gets unlocked at once regardless of what patch it was in. Once you are past that stage, it's not very hard to keep track of when certain quests happened relative to other quests is pretty easy.

The tricky thing with "Level 3" events is that it seems there are two elements to how it works in practice:

1. Optional questlines only happened if the player has personally done them.

BUT

2. If you later complete them out-of-sequence, they still happened in the patch when they were released.

They get "slotted in" to the pre-established timeline rather than taking place when you personally complete them.


An example I recently came across is meeting Alisaie at Lv60 in post-Heavensward. I never picked up the Binding Coil unlock quest on my alt, so when she introduced herself, she said we hadn't met since our very early encounter around Lv20 at the Carteneau memorial services.

But then I went and played Binding Coil afterwards, and that still takes place at Lv50. It's also our first meeting since the memorial services, Alphinaud is his overconfident ARR self (and busy organising the Crystal Braves!) and there is no altered dialogue to acknowledge that we've met in Ishgard - because as far as Lv50-Alisaie is aware, we haven't. It's still a future event for her.


Completion of past events will affect dialogue in future events, but not (or rarely) vice-versa.

Partly it would be a matter of not having to update old dialogue, but it also brings its own sort of logic to how optional stories affect - and fit into - the overall timeline. (Though one that makes it regrettably hard to bring things like the Warring Triad back into MSQ without a plot-halting "complete this quest chain first" progression lock.)

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Completion of past events will affect dialogue in future events, but not (or rarely) vice-versa.

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It does happen sometimes though. I did the anima relic ages ago but only recently finished the zodiac quests, and during Kettle to the Mettle Gerolt mentioned the anima quests.


https://i.imgur.com/GuxtyUV.png?1

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Originally Posted by Brightamethyst

It does happen sometimes though. I did the anima relic ages ago but only recently finished the zodiac quests, and during Kettle to the Mettle Gerolt mentioned the anima quests.


https://i.imgur.com/GuxtyUV.png?1

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Note that Kettle to the Mettle was released in 3.2, perhaps affirming that the time bubble generally respects patch release order.

EDIT: A quick second thought, and I suppose we can say Kettle to the Mettle occupies an ambiguous space. It only requires completion of the Vital Title, which places it at any point after 2.5, but was released in 3.2, which could place it at any point up to then, if we hold that future events don't really affect past ones.

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Originally Posted by RenewalXVII

Note that Kettle to the Mettle was released in 3.2

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Oh, right. Forgot about that.

I feel like people who use the "time bubble" theory are taking it too broadly. Clearly there are events that have happened, and therefore time must unfold in that space. You can put things in a bubble or sort of suspend quests and locations to certain points in time, but you cannot assume that the events between ARR and Shadowbringers have only been a short amount of time.

What I like to do is separate the expansions into about a year's worth of "events." Which seems to be the most likely case. Maybe ARR was a short amount of time, but you cannot tell me that between the end of ARR and the end of Seventh Astral Era, that at least half a year hasn't gone by. This stuff takes time to set up. You think the Crystal Braves were set up in a day? A week? A month? Please, recruiting an army takes several months, at best. Even with Alphinaud tirelessly finding new members.

By my standing, about three years have passed since the introduction of ARR up until the end of Stormblood. That leaves plenty of space for your character to have done all the MSQ stuff and run through all the side quest, raid, and expeditionary(24-man) content. The way that the characters talk, they make it clear that we don't really use the aetheryte crystals all that much, if at all. Most content seems to be "walk" to this place, not "teleport."

If you really want to assume that an absurdly short amount of time or absolutely no time has passed between the events of ARR and Stormblood, I mean of course you are free to do so. And I'm not saying we should even follow the calendar events of the world. But honestly it's not a very interesting topic to just assume that everything is episodic or that everyone's stuck in a time bubble. That just makes it seem like no one can grow as characters, which they all clearly have.

The time bubble theory could be applied per expansion, where all events and side quests do go in a sequential order, the MSQ being the only thing you have to rigidly stick to in order to see events afterwards, but I don't think you could reasonably make an argument where both Gaius van Baelsar was both just defeated in the Praetorium and is also seeking to slay the Ascians while wandering through the Burn. The devs are busy actually making the game, leave them out of it, you should be able to make your own conclusions to how long the timeline is so far.

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Originally Posted by Nefiiria

I feel like people who use the "time bubble" theory are taking it too broadly. Clearly there are events that have happened, and therefore time must unfold in that space. You can put things in a bubble or sort of suspend quests and locations to certain points in time, but you cannot assume that the events between ARR and Shadowbringers have only been a short amount of time.

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That's not how the time bubble works here. Time is still passing and the story is still being told in order. The time bubble is just keeping the calendar from moving. It's why Aphinaud is still 16 and the Calamity is still "5 years ago" and such despite 4-6 years worth of events having happened since the beginning of 2.0.

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Originally Posted by Brightamethyst

It's why Aphinaud is still 16 and the Calamity is still "5 years ago" and such despite 4-6 years worth of events having happened since the beginning of 2.0.

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Then again we can also go devil's advocate to argue that we've got no idea how elezen age and/or he could be a late bloomer.

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Originally Posted by Jaywalker

Then again we can also go devil's advocate to argue that we've got no idea how elezen age and/or he could be a late bloomer.

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We do know that actually, from the lorebook - they're slow to hit puberty (as their whole lifespan is 10-20% longer than average) and overtake Hyuran height around age 20.

That doesn't explain the "always five years since the Calamity" thing, or twenty since the fall of Ala Mhigo whether you're in ARR or Stormblood.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

Partly it would be a matter of not having to update old dialogue, but it also brings its own sort of logic to how optional stories affect - and fit into - the overall timeline. (Though one that makes it regrettably hard to bring things like the Warring Triad back into MSQ without a plot-halting "complete this quest chain first" progression lock.)

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If the Warring Triad ever becomes required they'd probably make it so you have to complete it in order to continue the HW story. If it was me and I had to make it required I'd make each part of the Triad required at the end of the patch story it was introduced in so new players would have time to gear up inbetween as well.

Meanwhile for players who already completed the story past that point but hadn't done the Triad would be unable to start the next xpac (or patch if it was made required earlier than that) until they complete it, with plenty of warning ahead of time similar to how the Crystal Tower has been given plenty of notice it will be conisdered important (though not required as it seems so far). Does run into the "complete this quest chain first" block there but thats why players are given notice well before they'd be locked out of doing more MSQ.

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Originally Posted by Iscah

We do know that actually, from the lorebook - they're slow to hit puberty (as their whole lifespan is 10-20% longer than average) and overtake Hyuran height around age 20.

That doesn't explain the "always five years since the Calamity" thing, or twenty since the fall of Ala Mhigo whether you're in ARR or Stormblood.

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Whoop didn't hit that part of the lorebook yet, but fair point!

Five years since the Calamity/20 years since the fall of Ala Mhigo remains weird agreed. Twenty I could see rounding/figurative language involved maybe but five is too low a number for me to buy that.

The better way to put it is that the 7th Astral Era starts five years after the 7th Umbral Era starts. The timeline of FFXIV effectively stops counting formal years in the First Year of the 7th Astral Era.

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Originally Posted by Jaywalker

Whoop didn't hit that part of the lorebook yet, but fair point!

Five years since the Calamity/20 years since the fall of Ala Mhigo remains weird agreed. Twenty I could see rounding/figurative language involved maybe but five is too low a number for me to buy that.

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Simple, the entire plotline of ARR right through to whatever 6.0 or 7.0 is called, will always fit neatly into a time period of less than a year.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Simple, the entire plotline of ARR right through to whatever 6.0 or 7.0 is called, will always fit neatly into a time period of less than a year.

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True, but at the same time those events might have (and logically should have) taken longer. We might have spent a year in the events of ARR, a month hiding out at Dragonhead waiting to get in to Ishgard, three months travelling to Dravania, another two to resolve Heavensward, at least a month at sea traveling to Othard.... and still fit all of that and all our future travels into the space of a year.

It's time-bending logic. The bubble doesn't mean that everything happens simulaneously - there's a sequence to the events that happen in it, but that sequence of events can take longer than the amount of time that the bubble occupies on a broader timeline.

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Originally Posted by Seraphor

Simple, the entire plotline of ARR right through to whatever 6.0 or 7.0 is called, will always fit neatly into a time period of less than a year.

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I mean theoretically lol, but the pacing logistics of that seem a bit poop and would require Eorzean travel time on foot/boat/etc. to be so negligible that it raises weird questions about the rest of the lore. Not to mention character development and dynamics. XD Tbh we could also raise questions about how a billion days and nights pass as we're playing but no months turnover or anything. Are we just living a groundhog day-esque loop?

No one has to agree with me, but I'm personally just gonna plant my hand on the table so to speak and say it's comic book logic at work. We can probably adhere or ignore this bit of info because it's bizarre and doesn't entirely make sense.

I think ARR, HW & SB all took about a year each.

People can say I'm wrong, I don't really care, having everything that has happened so far take place in less than a year makes the whole story a farcical mess and I simply cannot suspend my disbelief that much.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

I think ARR, HW & SB all took about a year each.

People can say I'm wrong, I don't really care, having everything that has happened so far take place in less than a year makes the whole story a farcical mess and I simply cannot suspend my disbelief that much.

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Don't overthink it.
It's the same reason the Simpsons have been the same age for the past 20 years.

I honestly do not buy that whole "it will always be year 1" nonsense at all, not unless a single eorzean year is worth multiple of our own earth years. Just because a bunch of unimportant side NPCs dialogue never changes doesn't mean time isn't progressing. Logically time would have passed. I'm not sure how much time, iirc MSQ dialogue stops making timeline references at about the end of ARR / start of HW, but logically at least a year, likely more, would have passed.

The funny thing is, there is a perfectly valid lore explanation why old NPCs don't change their dialogue, much less positions, movements and actions. The Echo. It allows you to not only relive old memories, but also actively interact with them. This is why we can do dungeons and fight bosses whenever we want. There are even quests, like the Anima weapon, that refers to going back to do old content like Garuda again as "reliving the fight in your mind". So, when we go back and talk to old NPCs and doing old sidequests? We are experiencing and manipulating old memories via the Echo.

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Originally Posted by Hezzlocks

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But it's not just "old NPCs". The time references continue throughout Stormblood. The Calamity was five years ago, Ala Mhigo fell 20 years ago, Doma 25, Dalmasca 30. Yda died six years ago, one year before the Calamity. The failed Doman Uprising was "one year ago" and it's in response to this that Yugiri and her refugee compatriots came to Eorzea.

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Originally Posted by Brightamethyst

That's not how the time bubble works here. Time is still passing and the story is still being told in order. The time bubble is just keeping the calendar from moving. It's why Aphinaud is still 16 and the Calamity is still "5 years ago" and such despite 4-6 years worth of events having happened since the beginning of 2.0.

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I don't like the idea of this time bubble. Like I said in my last paragraph, it makes absolutely no sense how time could be "stopped" when events clearly have happened. You can't say Gaius got his ass kicked, spent no time thinking about what he was going to do to get revenge on the Ascians, and then spent no time gathering like-minded folk to help him in his cause, and then spent no time getting to the Burn. Time has obviously passed. Screw the calendar year, we all know the game doesn't run on our depiction of time gone by. But you can still say that on a per-person basis, time has passed. If I go do MSQ's 1-25 and then go back and do side quest 1, side quest 1 is more in line with MSQ 1. Likewise, if I'm on MSQ 500 and I go back and do side quest heavensward pre-nidhogg slain and they talk about the dangers of nidhogg, I'm assuming the quest is part of that era. Not a part of the current event the MSQ is on.