what job holds best AOE DPS # in 4.0 ??

does anyone have any figures?

No idea but i can say that in dungeon, monk is crazy good for AOE! unless your buddy dps is bad and it takes an eternity to finish a pack of mob, you pretty much never run out of TP and can AOE all day long!

unofficial testing seems to suggest SAM if you find someone to feed you TP.

Blm. Thunder IV, flares and foul if the battle takes that long...

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Originally Posted by Inuk9

Blm. Thunder IV, flares and foul if the battle takes that long...

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Not to mention you can Triplecast three instant flares for nearly 800 potency AoE in 3 globals.
I would be really surprised if the answer to the OP's question isn't Blm.

Maybe the melee classes have better sustained AoE over a longer period, but I have trouble thinking of any examples where you actually need sustained AoE...

Just a speculation, but I would say...

Tanks -WAR
Healers - WHM
Melee - SAM
Caster - BLM

I suspect BLM is overall top.

No Ninja love?

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Originally Posted by Bardo

Not to mention you can Triplecast three instant flares for nearly 800 potency AoE in 3 globals.
I would be really surprised if the answer to the OP's question isn't Blm.

Maybe the melee classes have better sustained AoE over a longer period, but I have trouble thinking of any examples where you actually need sustained AoE...

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where does SMN stand now?

I'd say RDM. People look at Scatter spam and scoff, but I've never seen a mob last long with a RDM in there.

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Originally Posted by Furiea

where does SMN stand now?

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Pretty good. Every dungeon I've ran thus far SMN has beaten everyone in AoE dps. I'd rate BLM and SMN ahead of everyone else, followed closely by SAM.

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Originally Posted by Furiea

where does SMN stand now?

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Summoner aoe dps is pretty high if you have cooldowns, but sustained aoe damage is not that good as blm. I have stealed aggro often with bahamut, but it is only once every 2min.

thanks for the feedback guys! appreciated it.

On the rangeds Im not so sure about MCH but BRD's Mage's Ballad, a couple DoTs here and there and you can Rain of Death the mob to oblivion.

My guess is Black Mage is the king overall, Monk is second for massive pulls due to not having any scaling on its AOEs+two TP regens for insane levels of sustain, and Samurai is second for smaller pulls due to all of its attacks scaling down for Subsequent enemies.

At the very least, no one is really bad as far as AOE goes amongst the DPS like Ninja was in early Heavensward as far as I can tell.

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Originally Posted by Arkenne

On the rangeds Im not so sure about MCH but BRD's Mage's Ballad, a couple DoTs here and there and you can Rain of Death the mob to oblivion.

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The problem with Bard AoE is that it requires setup (you need to spread dots around, but they're single target so it takes several globals) and then on top of that it requires Mage's Ballad which works for 30 seconds and then has a 50 sec cooldown.
So if your tank is making one big pull every ~80 seconds and you have time to throw around dots while the pull is happening, then it's fantastic. 400+ potency per global if you count the dot ticks and get a Rain of Death proc to weave in between each Quick Nock.
On the other hand, if you're getting smaller more frequent groups that don't line up with Ballad cooldown and you don't have time to apply dots on the pull? Then Bard AoE is probably the worst of all the dps classses.

I don't really know since I haven't tried MCH yet (my comparison wasn't BRD vs the World but as a ranged).

However on the little I've used it, I just DoTed 2 out of maybe 5~6 enemies once each and then I end up throwing RoD like a madman. Even if its not the best of all at least is hella fun when it happens.

But if we talk about BRD vs the world, along with MCH, at least they really don't have to wait for the tank to stop to start attacking the mob. And one really don't even need songs for this either.

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Originally Posted by SpeckledBurd

My guess is Black Mage is the king overall, Monk is second for massive pulls due to not having any scaling on its AOEs+two TP regens for insane levels of sustain, and Samurai is second for smaller pulls due to all of its attacks scaling down for Subsequent enemies.

At the very least, no one is really bad as far as AOE goes amongst the DPS like Ninja was in early Heavensward as far as I can tell.

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Samurai destroys monk on huge pulls, assuming your using kaiten on tenka goken every 2 sen built with mangetsu and oka. While monk has more longevity with 2 tp regen skills, you shouldn't be having issues with tp on Sam unless all your doing is spamming oka and mangetsu. Sam wins in the melee department, no contest.

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Originally Posted by Selova

Sam wins in the melee department, no contest.

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I am not so sure about that, I feel its more gray than black and white.

For one MNK is also capable of using Fist of Wind and Form Shift to easily keep up on the run and build up GL stacks to be ready on GL3 at the stop.

NIN can go full power from the get-go of the mob formation using Shadewalker and even build up some Ninki on the run, while also having a chance to throw up to 3 Katons (1 normal, 1 critical, 1 doubled) and one doubled Doton (Ninjutsus aren't affected by AoE nerfs).

SAM's on the run scenery, to be fair, could build up Shifu and Jinpu, which well, don't do much for AoE on the run, but having them ready for the stop may be nothing but a plus (besides you could get 2 Sen with them and by ready to Hagakure a Guren on the stop).

I don't know enough of DRGs to talk about them, sadly.

Of the melee i would like to note that Nin can in rapid succession cast katon twice then cast fuma, katon, and doton at double potency all the while spamming death blossom and eventually top it off with a hellfrog all within the normal time it takes for a full opener.
Potency wise for just the aoe moves thats 250, 250, 500, 80 dot over 24 seconds, and 400. all the while spamming blossom at 110. At a much faster rate than Sam and with no damage falloff for extra adds.

During a roughly 7 mob pull i was parsing just over 10k after 30 seconds...

Sam does very good aoe, however the ramp up time is quite high, anywhere from 2-6gcd's + taking into consideration kenki build up. with my red mage friend who I run exclusively if I can go into an aoe fight with everything up and atleast +50kenki I can out dps him quite substantially, but straight from the ground up. I loose every time.

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Originally Posted by Dragoonicorn

Of the melee i would like to note that Nin can in rapid succession cast katon twice then cast fuma, katon, and doton at double potency all the while spamming death blossom and eventually top it off with a hellfrog all within the normal time it takes for a full opener.
Potency wise for just the aoe moves thats 250, 250, 500, 80 dot over 24 seconds, and 400. all the while spamming blossom at 110. At a much faster rate than Sam and with no damage falloff for extra adds.

During a roughly 7 mob pull i was parsing just over 10k after 30 seconds...

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How are you the first to say this?

I haven't played Ninja yet but can't wait, its AoE changes look NASTY

Yeah I wish Bard was the highest, but Bard is the lowest when it comes to all DPS numbers now (maybe besides MCH). BLM is my vote on king of AoE.

Blm is an aoe god now

Thunder 4 + instant damage + DoT procs

Double flares every rotation and triple to quad flares with resources

685 potency aoe nuke every 30s.

Lets not pretend now.

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Originally Posted by xNewbx

Yeah I wish Bard was the highest, but Bard is the lowest when it comes to all DPS numbers now (maybe besides MCH). BLM is my vote on king of AoE.

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I secretly-not-so-secretly hope for an "Enhanced Iron Jaw" trait that makes it reapply the DoTs, then spreads them. This would make the AoE Rotation for Mage's Ballad much more fun, I think. Multi-dotting isn't a big deal (you can even Paeon into it), but it might be more enjoyable to Caustic and Stormbite one mob, spread with Iron Jaw, then Quick Nock with RoD procs while Mages Ballad is up. This would also help bring Wanderer's up slightly during AoE moments. But, it could potentially mess up certain mechanics if we were able to spread them with Iron Jaw. The range would certainly have to be really low, as well.

That might be a bit overkill as we already get a bunch of RoD procs and have Enhanced Emp Arrow to help guarantee even more. It's honestly fine how it is, but just an idea.

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Originally Posted by Arkenne

I don't really know since I haven't tried MCH yet

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Don't worry, at this point, MCH is just atrocious in every way, not only it does less damage than BRD, but it also brings less raid damage.

It's still SMN and BLM, and SAM as well now.

SMN works best on huge pulls, if you have a tank that's pulling awkwardly it'll screw up your stacks. The right pulls, you should have all your tools. Regardless of the nerfs, using all your resources (that includes the enkindle which I see a lot of smns not using) SMN is still a beast in aoe at lvl70.

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Originally Posted by SkyCake

I secretly-not-so-secretly hope for an "Enhanced Iron Jaw" trait that makes it reapply the DoTs, then spreads them. This would make the AoE Rotation for Mage's Ballad much more fun, I think. Multi-dotting isn't a big deal (you can even Paeon into it), but it might be more enjoyable to Caustic and Stormbite one mob, spread with Iron Jaw, then Quick Nock with RoD procs while Mages Ballad is up. This would also help bring Wanderer's up slightly during AoE moments. But, it could potentially mess up certain mechanics if we were able to spread them with Iron Jaw. The range would certainly have to be really low, as well.

That might be a bit overkill as we already get a bunch of RoD procs and have Enhanced Emp Arrow to help guarantee even more. It's honestly fine how it is, but just an idea.

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Enhanced Iron Jaws:
Iron Jaws gains Combo: Quick Nock: Spread your Caustic Bite and Stormbite effects from the target to enemies within x yalms with the same duration. Potency is divided between targets, to a minimum of 10 per effect per target.

So, you'd end up maintaining straighter shot (probably?), stormbite, caustic bite, quick nock, iron jaws, quick nock/rod spam till dot refresh. It's not hugely better than quick nock and still potentially worse on quick pulls, but it's something.

The entire mechanics of bard are currently centered around the dots being actively on the target, it doesn't sit very well with the current aoe rotation. At the moment it kinda seems to be (if mage's ballad about to be up or has a long duration left, put up a couple of dots, otherwise ignore song mechanics and spam nock).

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Originally Posted by Psycofang

Blm is an aoe god now

Thunder 4 + instant damage + DoT procs

Double flares every rotation and triple to quad flares with resources

685 potency aoe nuke every 30s.

Lets not pretend now.

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Foul is 650 potency.

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Originally Posted by Dragoonicorn

During a roughly 7 mob pull i was parsing just over 10k after 30 seconds...

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That's only if you have all your cd and some ninki saved. But the same is true for sam. If you start a big pull with a lot of kenki available and guren ready the dps is just insane. Still, nin aoe damage is very impressive right now.

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Originally Posted by VitalSuit

Foul is 650 potency.

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Enochian +5% potency

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Originally Posted by IndoX

Pretty good. Every dungeon I've ran thus far SMN has beaten everyone in AoE dps. I'd rate BLM and SMN ahead of everyone else, followed closely by SAM.

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Yeah people think the nerf to bane killed SMN. I suggest those people get to 70. You'd be surprised how often you're able to use Bahamut in one dungeon run. I've beaten other dps classes (most recently a nin) in the aoe department without even using all my tools for most pulls (pets enkindle). I understand now why they nerfed bane, if we had bane at max with all the tools we have now SMN would be straight up broken.

I gotta say it feels great to be a SMN right now. Every time I go into a dungeon whenever I first summon Bahamut there's always someone who hasen't seen him before and goes ''WHAT THE HELL IS THAT'', ''THAT'S SO SICK''.

I want to get two SMN in one dungeon now haha.

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Originally Posted by AlphaSonic

Enochian +5% potency

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Oh that's right

How can it not be BLM. Quadruple flares with cds and a pot, double flares otherwise. Fouls and t4 procs in UI. It's amazing if you already have a Foul before a pull and you can double Foul.

Definitely BLM. I also don't see what people mean when they say "BLM for burst but not sustained" when BLM is literally the only Job who can forever keep going with AoEing the targets down. Double Flare will always be there. Thunder IV will always be there. Foul will always be there.
BLM takes the cake for AoE, hands down.
SMN is still good, very good even buttttttttttt once you reach the point where no Aetherflow stacks are available anymore you also reach the point where you literally can't do any AoE. Now SMN is good for burst but not for sustained. The packs have to die before you empty out your resources or you'll stand there and be ruining single target mobs while there are 10 mobs. Nonetheless, still amazing aoe DPS as long as you got stacks.

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Originally Posted by Vallhallix

Yeah people think the nerf to bane killed SMN. I suggest those people get to 70. You'd be surprised how often you're able to use Bahamut in one dungeon run. I've beaten other dps classes (most recently a nin) in the aoe department without even using all my tools for most pulls (pets enkindle). I understand now why they nerfed bane, if we had bane at max with all the tools we have now SMN would be straight up broken.

I gotta say it feels great to be a SMN right now. Every time I go into a dungeon whenever I first summon Bahamut there's always someone who hasen't seen him before and goes ''WHAT THE HELL IS THAT'', ''THAT'S SO SICK''.

I want to get two SMN in one dungeon now haha.

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The question is tough: Do you even use Bane anymore for AoE Pulls? or is it a waster aetherstack if you have 3 or more enemies? Right now I burn ridiolously fast through all 3 aetherstack with simple using the AoE Skill three times. Resulting to a terrible AoE-downphase afterwards.

Don't have a bahamut yet tough.

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Originally Posted by Cherub

Definitely BLM. I also don't see what people mean when they say "BLM for burst but not sustained" when BLM is literally the only Job who can forever keep going with AoEing the targets down. Double Flare will always be there. Thunder IV will always be there. Foul will always be there.
BLM takes the cake for AoE, hands down.
SMN is still good, very good even buttttttttttt once you reach the point where no Aetherflow stacks are available anymore you also reach the point where you literally can't do any AoE. Now SMN is good for burst but not for sustained. The packs have to die before you empty out your resources or you'll stand there and be ruining single target mobs while there are 10 mobs. Nonetheless, still amazing aoe DPS as long as you got stacks.

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I am confused by this as well. Melee will run out of TP and SMN will run out of stacks. BLM can go on forever.

I know it's not really going to contest anything but how does RDM hold up for AoE to others? The basic just seems like either just spamming scatter or scatter->veraero/thunder for quicker mana gain (not sure which is more effective), followed by Moulinet spam.

I'm also not sure whether to save mana until I'm 90/90 for triple moulinet (quadruple if you manafication on the second one) or just use Moulinet as soon as you get 30/30

The jury is still out on that one, I feel.

There have been some posts here and there but from what I can gather Black Mage with its 4x Flare capability plus Thunder 4 and Foul would absolutely be top of the line. Red Mage Scatter spam is also some pretty good damage on groups so its also a good choice. Summoner is, to me, under investigation due to the dreaded Bane nerf and the fact that you only get 1 Deathflare per minute. Its level 70 Ahk Mors is also once every 2 minutes. Correct me if I am wrong on Summoner.

From the melee, in my personal experience Monk and Samurai are solid choices. I have always been glad to have a competent Monk beside me when I am a caster. Having played Samurai, I can tell it is also quite capable.
I have yet to see how Ninja is fairing in this department and Dragoon has never been the best at AoE with all their combos to consider.

Healer wise, White Mage wins. Thin Air + Holy spam and Aero III are too good.

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Originally Posted by TheChemicalCat

I know it's not really going to contest anything but how does RDM hold up for AoE to others? The basic just seems like either just spamming scatter or scatter->veraero/thunder for quicker mana gain (not sure which is more effective), followed by Moulinet spam.

I'm also not sure whether to save mana until I'm 90/90 for triple moulinet (quadruple if you manafication on the second one) or just use Moulinet as soon as you get 30/30

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Do 5 moulinets instead of 4. Go 100/100. Moulinet x2, Scatterx2 (puts you above 45 mana), manification, moulinet x3.

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Originally Posted by TheChemicalCat

I know it's not really going to contest anything but how does RDM hold up for AoE to others?

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RDM AoE is pretty good.
A little bit of napkin math should show whether it's worth to use verAero/Thunder:
If you spam Scatter, you get 6 mana per cast 3/4 of the time and 16 mana per cast 1/4 of the time. So that averages to 8.5 mana per cast.
VerAero/Thunder give you 11 mana. So you gain an average of 2.5 mana per cast.
With that rate, you'd have to use 24 globals to gain an extra 30/30 for one "extra" Moulinet.

If there are only 3 targets, then your Scatter does the same total potency as a single verAero/Thunder. So in this case, you don't lose out on total damage and you gain a small amount of mana. This also helps the group because you'll kill off one mob faster, which lowers the damage intake rate for the tank.
But if there are 4 targets, then every global you spend on verAero/Thunder loses you 100 potency. So by the time you had enough for an "extra" moulinet, you would have lost 2400 potency in order to gain 400 from being able to use 1 more Moulinet instead of another Scatter. Obviously that's a horrible trade-off, and it gets way worse really quickly as the number of targets goes up to 5/6/7 etc...

So if there are exactly 3 targets, weaving verAero/Thunder is a TINY bit better. More than 3 targets? Scatter spam beats verAero/Thunder weaving by leaps and bounds.

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Originally Posted by TheChemicalCat

I'm also not sure whether to save mana until I'm 90/90 for triple moulinet (quadruple if you manafication on the second one) or just use Moulinet as soon as you get 30/30

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There are only 3 reasons to hold it past 30/30:
1) You're worried about pulling aggro early in the fight
2) You have Manafication up to use at 45/45.
3) You want to line up Moulinet spam with party-wide damage buffs.
Otherwise, using it as you hit 30/30 three times is no different than waiting till 90/90 and using it three times in a row.