SCH has issues, but a Lily ain't one...

I lied, Lily is part of the problem.

I've raided on SCH since 2.0 and this is the first time I've really debated if I want to continue. I shouldn’t be forced to spam physic on a tank during a big full after I have used all of my AF stacks. Can’t Adlo because lol it is triple the mp cost now of Physick and it’s really only useful if it crits now which is rare at this point. To be honest at this point, if they really want to make changes to SCH…they should do like they did with pvp. Make the fairy summonable for the attacks or something. SCH used to be tied with WAR on how put together the job kit was….it made the job fun and challenging to play. Now sadly the job I loved is shade of its former self.

Healer Role Actions
These changes really hurt SCH dps. No blizzard 2 for spammable aoe and no extra dot from aero. If you run a Tam-tara Deepcroft (lvl 16 one) undersized you really begin to notice how bad the dps is on sch now. I used to be able to run through and be out in 3 min and 45 sec. Now it takes roughly 4 min 26 secs and this is with gear from SB that is higher level gear than 270 3.0 BiS. It may not seem like a lot, but the only reason for the slowdown is the fact that you can't do any instant aoe damage to mobs now. Sadly Shadow Flare is the only aoe we have that can do consistent damage now and it's on a 60 sec cd. The 20% per mob Bane nerfs are terrible and I get that SMN needed to be adjusted...but gutting SCH's only native aoe just makes doing solo content and dungeons a chore with a job that used to be so well tuned. The lack of extra potency since we lost a dot also hurt sch dps. We don't even have Miasma II anymore.

Cleric Stance is a joke with the 5% buff and not worth taking with its 90sec cd.

Protect should just be a WHM skill (since they lost so many anyway) and use the PVP version. No need to have a buff that is mandatory just to get better stats. Either drop damage down the 15% or boost our defense up.

Leeches/Esuna/Exalted Detriment should have just stayed native to each healer. Too many older instances rely on healers having these skills and people wiping because the healer forgot to adjust their role actions will not be fun. Besides, 30 secs of paralyze on caster is annoying and crippling.

Being forced to take Lucid Dreaming is kinda crummy since it just locks down another Role actions slot, preventing us from taking other actions. Aetherflow is a key SCH skill and was doing MP refreshment just fine before. Reducing it by 10% is not cool. I'd be way less salty if it had been only a 5% reduction for a little wiggle room. Even the agro reducing part is kinda weak since it won’t affect the fairy (who can pull hate faster than I can at times).

Eye for an Eye was nice when it was ours (used it when I needed to because it was there), but the RNG chance of getting the proc just isn't worth the Role action slot. Not when we need so many other ones now. The synergy with Deployment Tactics was useful if you wanted to really boost the chances of hit landing.

Swiftcast is still great.

Largesse is kinda nice since it can be a pain to get bigger heals off with sch for extended periods of time. Not to mention the extra boost to shields without dissipating the fairy and shorter cd than it and fey illumination. The new buff doesn't help my pet or my instant heals though….

Break is a joke as is; sadly I would have taken it if it had been a spammable aoe though.

Surecast and Rescue are very situational.

SCH skills and spells...
Outside of the dps issues I already discussed above,

Adloquium: mp cost is hilariously bad triple physic, need a crit to make it worth the magic you spend on it. Astro now outshines SCH as the Shield healer thanks to the stronger potency, cheaper, instant shields they have.

Excogitation has a timer which sucks, the number of times so far I’ve used it and it has been wasted makes me extremely sad. One time, a primal hit the tank for slightly more than 50% and the other healer cured them. This isn’t even factoring in the tank mitigation that can stop it from triggering. As it is, this is a slightly stronger emergency lustrate that you goes off instantly if the tank is below 50%. This would have been a great skill prior to 4.0….it’s like it was made with the old version of Cleric Stance in mind. If we had more DPS skills to be using our time, then maybe I could see this being used more often. Really, it’s pretty much better to just lustrate the tank and make sure the AF stack is used. Heck, make it give the sch back some mp if it doesn’t go off…just something to not make it feel like a wasted AF.

Ruin, Broil, Broil II spam after dotting is just not fun.

Speaking of not fun, having just two dots now is def not fun. They aren’t even strong dots; just Bio II and Miasma. These are the same ones we have had since 2.0 and we actually lost one of the 3 since 3.0….not to mention losing the extra dot with Aero. The potency of the missing one wasn’t added to the other two like SMN with the tier 3 versions.

Shadow Flare: This needs a longer active time for the long cool down or shorten the cool down timer.

Dissipation: The one skill I was hoping they would change. If I have to go without the fairy for a period of time, a 20% buff to my healing spells and an new aetherflow stack is not going to cut it…esp not if I have to pat to resummon her. It’s a terrible “emergency button” because it robs from Peter to pay Paul. Not to mention it doesn’t build Fairy meter energy while she’s gone. The healing buff also doesn’t buff my healing skills (same with Largesse and Fey Illumination)

Chain Strategem so far I’m not super impressed, but it is nice to have I guess. A shorter cd would be welcome since there is a chance that no one will crit even if it’s up anyway with the 20% and 2 min cooldown. I also wish I could use it on my party members to increase my odds of getting a crit heal on them instead of just a damage booster.

Fey Union needs a bigger aoe of effect please...I don’t want myself or the fairy to get cleaved or drops aoes on the melees just because I’m trying to use this skill. Locking the fairy to one spot, all her skills turned off except for this heavy regen that tanks and dps can run out of range for. Also…why does it take so long to activate? The skill delay with the fairy is becoming a huge joke at this point…having to macro abilities to interrupt /get her attention is frustrating.

The new trait Quickened Aetherflow is a better trait that what the other healers got I guess. Having more AF skills means more chances to proc the reduction. The 20% chance to proc the reduction though is not something you can rely on and goes against the idea of SCH and planning out battle tactics. ESP not with the scripted XIV fights. I need to know that I will have Indom or Lustrate after mass damage. I can’t chance it.

Fairy:
Why does my pet take so much damage now? I have had to spend Lustrates on her just to keep her alive after an aoe. And if I don’t heal her, then she spends the next 2 min doing self-care Embraces ignoring the rest of the party. Constantly positioning her isn’t a solution as she has died on me just going from a to b or because she stopped to Embrace along the way.

Fey Illumination is now at 10%...yay another nerf to her and my heals.

Embrace was nerfed again 300 pot down to 250. SCH doesn’t have cure (450 pot), cure II (700 pot) or Benefic II (650 pot), or Essential Dignity (400 pot that gets stronger the lower the hp is every 40 secs) to make up the difference…that’s what the fairy was for. We have Physick at 400 pot, Adlo at 300 pot, and Lustrate at 600 (which we can only use 3 times if we haven’t used any of the other Aetherflow skills like Bane, E.Drain, Sacred Soil, Indom, Excog). Also the range is still wrong. Embrace Range Error

Silent Dusk: Why is this still a thing on SCH? The two pets are now labeled as Healing (Eos) and Support (Selene). A silence that you can’t rely on is not helping anyone and never has. This should be turned into a timed main stat up buff or a timed Garuda-egi like auto attack.

Fey Wind: this could use a buff just to make her more useful again…Eos though has the progression slot though.

Just my thoughts on my favorite job and I hate seeing it this way.

Join the let SCH die club.

I read this entire thread.

I have decided you are not a scholar, you are in fact a white mage.

Well played. 10/10

Why do people keep bringing up Lily, like she is some all mighty entity that gives us ungodly power. Lily is part of our kit, that is it. Like SMN we have gated skills that are on timers that we have to use in a tactical way to be effective, the pet contributes 30% of our healing output. Yes we understand her heals are MP free there is no way around that, but the heals she provides are different then a straight up Regen. Lily just suplimented our heals to bring them in line with a Cure II/Benefic II.

And to anyone who brings up low level dungeons, any healer could stay in Cleric Stance the entire time, it was just more noticable on SCH.

Someone forgot the mend trait it works on pets so in reality it's 250*30%=75 250+75 is 325

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jukebox12

Someone forgot the mend trait it works on pets so in reality it's 250*30%=75 250+75 is 325

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Mobile cannot edit also fairy is still op. And fey union it needs more planning

SCH is fine right now, can't understand all of the hate for the job at the moment. I've finished 15+ of both Extreme trials, and my tanks do big pulls in dungeons all the time. No issues, at all. Have even gone double SCH on both trials, and no one even came close to dying, or either of us running out of MP.

Most of the MP issues people complain about stem from being undergeared before they hit 70, or not knowing when or how to use Lucid Dreaming. It's rare I fall below 40% MP on both Ex trials while keeping constant DPS, even without BRD/MCH.

The majority of mechanics in trials are now on 30 or 60 second timers, which line up with Indomitable or Rouse/Whispering Dawn. If you're spamming Adlo/Succor, then you're obviously going to run out of MP, since it's almost never necessary.

Aetherpact is super clunky, though. So I hope they fix the responsiveness and range on it.

tl;dr, if you were mediocre at SCH before, that's not going to change this expansion.

We have a consolidation thread now, which brings up every issue you've stated here. Hopefully the devs know about it too. I'm not sure they care though. They've had it in for SCH for the entirety of 3.x. Hopefully they will address the current state of our healers in a live letter or something.

I dont get why people cant grasp, the main points here. Can you still play SCH reasonably well, yes, if it was that broken, absolutely no one would be playing it. Its how the nerfs happened in comparison to the other healers, and how the new role system screws each job over in a different way. SCH shouldnt need Lucid Dreaming, as it stand Eye for an Eye is pointless, Largesse is pointless, Excognition is poorly implimented, the final trait of all healers is garbage, and we still have two horrible final level skill in Dissipation and, Fey Union. A slight fairy nerf is marginal in all of this, but if a majority of our skills are gated and uneffected by the small amount of buffs we had before why do we need to add more... try giving us more spells then. SE said they were going to bring the other two healers in line with SCH. They sorta succeeded with WHM, and they over buffed AST. But this is compared to the 3.x SCH the 4.0 one is now the new WHM/BARD. We need the love now.

TL: DR Why bring the other classes up and knock us down, what is the point of that?

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Originally Posted by Jukebox12

Someone forgot the mend trait it works on pets so in reality it's 250*30%=75 250+75 is 325

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First off all healers have Maim and Mend, so its effect on potency should be considered the baseline, not an additional. Since all classes have the trait (AST technically has Magick and Mend but it's identical) you can remove it from the equations whenever you're talking about max-level healing since it just adds an additional step. It only shows an effect when looking at healing before level 50.

Fairy potency doesn't work the same as player potency, and it heals an effectice 30%-40% less than the player's equivalent. If SCH's current physick (400 pot) heals for 5200-5400, then embrace will hit for around 2100-2200. This puts its effective potency somewhere around the 160/170 mark rather than its listed 250, which makes it very equivalent to WHM regen given its three second cooldown which puts its application speed in-line with regen's tick timer.

Fey Union is a little clunky. It takes forever to build it up, burns out fairly fast, activates somewhat delayed, and has range issues with its 10y tether, but it's effectively like casting a physick every three seconds which is a good amount of healing. I can't imagine there being a need to burn a full ten-ticks worth of meter, but given the lag time in turning it on and off some waste is expected, and it works well in healing up after tank busters. I can see it being useful in situations like last phase Alexander when healers were splitting focus and preparing for AoE spam immediately following tank busters. To its benefit if you've placed the fairy out of range, then it will immediately move to within 10 yalms of the target and commence tether, and when you turn it off it will return to the spot you placed it at. However if the target moves out of 10y range while it's active, it will sit there and expend changes pointlessly, which is a critically annoying flaw.

If Aetherpact was a pet action instead of a player action, it would make the usability much better. This would allow you to order the faeirie to do fey union while you're in the middle of a cast. The range also needs to be increased, its pitiful short. As a result the faerie has to move into range first before it begins the tether, which is ~2s delay.

The potency also needs to be increased. You can get your fey union tics up to ~8500, but that will likely get patched back to 5500, which really doesn't feel impactful enough.
Allowing actions such as convalescence, rouse, mantra, illumination to actually increase the potency of fey union would really help as well.