Advanced Traditional Classes with a new twist ^^

My Vision For Eorzea

So there are a lot of idea's floating around about how to implement traditional classes, some of which are great and some not so great, so here is my newest vision of how I hope SE shape the game. I did post this in my "scrapping current classes" thread but as we are not scrapping with this idea I thought maybe it deserved a thread of it's own, if you don't agree you can let it sink into obscurity. Anyway it may seem similar to a few at first but it does have a twist or two that I have not seen anyone else mention so please read it all before you comment ^^

First though I want to direct your attention to this question that was in the first player poll:

11. Would you welcome changes to FINAL FANTASY XIV that would drastically alter the rules already set in Eorzea?

Now we know 85.2% voted yes, but that is irrelevant here. How the question was worded was the key and I will get to that later as it is the main reason for my idea.

The Basic Idea

What I hope they do to introduce the traditional jobs is to add them as advanced jobs as many have said. However there is a twist with my plan and I am sure many will hate it ^^

As many are aware the final Rank cap for FFXIV is not going to be Rank 50 most likely it will be 99 eventually. Basically my idea will be when you hit Rank 50 on a class you open up 2 new jobs which you can level, you can do both if you please once you have unlocked them through a nice quest to introduce each one and the lore behind them. The jobs would be as follows:

GLA - Paladin and Dark Knight
MRD - Warrior and Beastmaster
PUG - Monk and Thief
ARC - Ranger and Corsair
LNC - Dragoon and Samurai
CON - White Mage and Black Mage
THM - Red Mage and Summoner

Now I have called these jobs and not classes as this is what they will be, ACTUAL JOBS. With these job you will not start back at Rank 1 it will be an advancement of your current class. So while you would be a Rank 1 DRK that would be on to of your Rank 50 GLA, so you would not be a weakling and have to return to the starter area's (that would defeat the point of having a powerful advanced class =P). Now the twist is that on all of these JOBS every skill and ability that they learn will be unique to it and none transferable to other jobs. You can still add every single skill and ability you have learnt from levelling all the base "classes" but nothing can be added from any actual job. So think of CON, THM, GLA, LNC, MRD, PUG and ARC as a huge sub job pool from which you can select skills and abilities from for your job. For example I could add Cure III from CON to a WAR but I could not add Souleater from DRK to WAR. Also you would of course be able to use abilities purchased from the Guilds from the base class tied to the advanced class. For example Archer's multi-shot could be used by Ranger and Corsair, Conjurer's Fast-cast could be used by Black Mage and White Mage and so on. They would have to add a few more interesting abilities to the Guilds for the base classes to make the other classes more interesting.

This would help add balance to the game at higher ranks and still allow a fair bit of freedom, creativity and help more with the lower to mid ranks.

Also with this I hope they would remove my pet peeve of being tied to a certain weapon, this would allow unique weapon skills for every weapon. The weaponskill's would be tied to the weapon allowing for you to have more choice in the weapon used for different situations, like DRK with Great Sword vs. Scythe (light vs. dark).

Back to the Question

Now one thing that give me hope for something like this was a question in the first player poll. Yoshi P. specifically stated that he had worded the question very carefully.

11. Would you welcome changes to FINAL FANTASY XIV that would drastically alter the rules already set in Eorzea?

Now we know 85.2% voted yes but Yoshi P. stated that he chose the word Eorzea and not FFXIV very specifically as Eorzea is only a small region of Hydaelyn.

I am really struggling to explain my thoughts here as I can't seem to find the right words to describe what I envision ; ;

It is kind of like in a movie when the main character is kind of like a street punk that is skilled at fighting and then he meets up with a master who gives him focus and direction and he becomes the best by using a combination of new skill's and old ones. I am sorry if that sounds so strange but I really can't think of a way to describe it ; ;

The way I see Eorzea is that it is only the start of our adventure, we ARE the street punk's and as we move to new places within Hydaelyn we learn of new ways to advance ourselves to make us stronger, which is where the advanced jobs come in. We see the power these jobs can give us. Imagine for DRK the quest starts with you going out into a dangerous area a cutscene starts and a huge beast attacks, you try your best but are starting to fail and then a DRK in full AF gear come's and fell's the beast with ease and thus your path to becoming a DRK has begun. They give us direction and focus on our journey up until then we were just kind of a jack of all trades. The idea is that the classes we have now are just beginner classes, maybe that is why they are a bit all over the place, they need guidance to become true warriors worthy of saving Eorzea maybe even Hydaelyn. Maybe that is why some some animations on spells and things are a little meh because they are nothing compared to the true power we will wield with our advanced classes which will really wow us, well I can dream can't I ^^

Anyway that is my hope for FFXIV.

*casts Barfira* ^^

Wow this I like. It's a new way to look at things and sounds great.

The Armoury system was created for fanboi's (imo). We fanbois know what skills a WHM has, A BLM has, a RDM has, a MNK has, a PLD has, ect, and what roles they play. What squeeeeeenix did was give us the tools, albeit not all the tools...yet, to make these archetype "jobs" by ourselves.

So SE should reiterate the fact that we don't have set "jobs" and post some builds to fit certain roles for those who need their hands held.

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Originally Posted by CptnGamble

The Armoury system was created for fanboi's (imo). We fanbois know what skills a WHM has, A BLM has, a RDM has, a MNK has, a PLD has, ect, and what roles they play. What squeeeeeenix did was give us the tools, albeit not all the tools...yet, to make these archetype "jobs" by ourselves.

So SE should reiterate the fact that we don't have set "jobs" and post some builds to fit certain roles for those who need their hands held.

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I would personally prefer it if they scrapped the entire Armoury System but I have argued my point on that enough and you can never get someone who loves it to see the other side of the fence, all you get is "GO BACK TO FFXI" ><

even if a majority of people disagree with your concept, i believe you may be on the right track (with some major tweaks).
im really glad to see people throwing out ideas like this, i hope something good comes out of these forums, keep up the good work ^^

I like the idea for the most part, But if they actually made you go all the way up to rank 50 to change to the higher end class, get ready for QQfest 2011. These whiners would have it lowered to rank 20 in no time, still complaining about how long it takes to get to rankk 20.

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THM - Red Mage and Blue Mage??? (not sure for second one on THM^^)

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I think the second job should be summoner

What will happen to the basic jobs? Can you still rank those up to 99?

I really like the way you put this, painted a picture in my mind. But I have a question, about the class advancement system in general. Assuming SE were to introduce more jobs later on, would they just link it to the general jobs we have now? If so, would they have to introduce them in sets of 6, to keep each job on level playing fields? I'm glad this topic is so hot, its one of my biggest concerns.

http://www.eorzeapedia.com/2011/03/0...naoki-yoshida/

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Q. You have also mentioned the possible introduction of traditional names. How do you see these new names fitting into the existing class system? Do you plan on using the new names as a guide to develop class uniqueness?
A. Yoshida-san is between two possible plans at this time. The first idea is that the traditional names would be introduced as “higher” or “advanced” classes. The traditional classes would thus be something of a goal for players. The second idea is that the traditional names would be more of a subset or specialization within the existing classes.
Whatever change is put into effect needs to be right. He recognizes that he will not be able to change the system again after this, so whatever is put into place needs to work, and be able to be balanced, for years to come. Because of this his team is giving this issue a lot of thought prior to implementation.

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I too agree with your idea! Not sure if we read similar posts or what but our ideas are almost identical! I posted this a day or two ago but it got hidden deep in some dead forum and didn't get to be really seen so I'll post it here. Alot of the ideas are similar or identical, but we each have some ideas the other is missing so I'll post mine and see what you think.

I have read many posts about what yoshi plans on doign and what others want to see happening. In one of Yoshi's letters, he talks about how new classes will be advanced jobs, or branch jobs (or whatever you would like to call it.) Another lengthy post I read was about how "jobs" and "classes" are different.

One of my main concerns, and I believe alot of others is that the classes aren't unique enough.

Combining these ideas I thought of a unique system that would keep the existing classes. (Feel free to add where you feel I missed)

Classes are all different and serve different purposes but they aren't very unique. As they stand they are somewhat similar, and most classes can do what the other classes can. Here is where my idea comes in:

Idea:

At a certain Rank when you reach a class(Lets say ~35) you are given a quest(yes they will have to add quests!) to unlock class specific jobs. Each class would have 2 jobs. To give more content, they could make 2 seperate quests, 1 for each job. Once you complete that quest your rank 35 can now be a rank35 with their job as " ". For example: I reach rank35 Marauder, my class is still 35 MRD, but my job could be set as either a Berserker or a Dark Knight. These jobs do NOT have levels. They are just the same as your class. Based on what rank MRD you are, you will be given different abilities, and able to wield different weapons.

Example:

a R40 MRD(Berserker):
Ability to wield 2 handed axes, and get the ability "Rage":Increasing Attack damage for a limited time, while reducing defense.
a R40 MRD(DarkKnight):
Ability to wield 2 handed scythes, and at R40 get the ability "Drain2".

These spells are just examples, but you get the gist of it. Each job can only use their specific abilities/spells. So MRD(berserker) couldn't use MRD(darkknight) abilities and vise versa.

So, with this system, once you are Rank50 MRD, you would have a 50MRD(Darknight/Berserker) (assuming you completed the job quests). In order to maintain uniquness, and so players cannot just switch at will, you would have to set your class job in a city. This way we can avoid MRD switching between the 2 just by disengaging, and defeating the purpose of job uniqueness.

Classes:

Pugilist
Gladiator
Lancer
Marauder
Archer
Musketeer
Shield
Conjurer
Thaumaturge
Arcanist

I added Arcanist and Musketeer as classes, as they are most likely going to be added since they already have their respective guilds in Lima Lominsa.

Then you have the Jobs which can be unlocked at R35 for their specific classes. These are just some ideas I came up with for their respective classes, and the weapon classes that become unlocked with them.

Jobs(weapons):

Pugilist
Monk (knuckles)
Puppetmaster (claws)

Gladiator
Paladin (sword with shield)
Ninja (dual wield katanas)
Thief/Assassin (Dual wield daggers)

Lancer
Dragoon (Lance w/ Wyvern)
Samurai (Great Katana)
Spearman (Spears)

Marauder
Dark Knight (Scythe)
Berserker (Great Axe)
Warrior (2-handed Sword)

Archer
Beastmaster (Pet and Shortbow/1 handed axes)
Ranger (Longbow)
Marksman (Crossbow)

Musketeer
Corsair (1 handed guns)
Gunner (2 handed guns)

Shield
Physical Shield Bonus
Magical Shield Bonus (Absorb magical spells or deflect certain ones for more damage)

Conjurer
White Mage (Club)
Black Mage (Staff)
Bard (Instrument)

Thaumaturge
Red Mage (Staff or Shield)
NecroMancer (Books)
Blood Mage (Books)

Arcanist
BlueMage (Scmitar)
Summoner (Club)
Scholar (Books)

I know there are other jobs people would like to see but this is just an outline, and what i feel fit the best for each class. Please let me know what you guys think! I know it is a bit soon to be worrying about what kind of jobs they'll implement but I like to think about these kinds of things!

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Originally Posted by BadJoeRed

I like the idea for the most part, But if they actually made you go all the way up to rank 50 to change to the higher end class, get ready for QQfest 2011. These whiners would have it lowered to rank 20 in no time, still complaining about how long it takes to get to rankk 20.

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Yeah I realised that and I personally don't like it either as it would mean levelling classes I don't care about to gain access to the ones I do, but with the current system unless there is some huge changes I couldn't really see another way. I also realise it makes the current classes kind of pointless apart from the fact they can be used as tool's for your additional skills ontop of the advanced class.

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Originally Posted by Ashne

I think the second job should be summoner

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I did think of that but then I thought maybe another base class with pets could be introduced but thinking about it now if LNC can have DRG why can't THM have SMN, hey maybe MRD could have BST too as opposed to Berserker, think I may edit my OP to include them. Thanks for the inspiration ^^

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

What will happen to the basic jobs? Can you still rank those up to 99?

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Well the plan was to have them stay at R50 and you branch out to the advanced classes upon achieving that. I know that will anger a lot of people but in the interest of balance I think it is the only way really. Like CON would probably have to have it's Ancient Magic removed so it could be placed on the BLM path but if you allowed CON to carry on levelling to 99 what new skill's and abilities would it earn that wouldn't be covered in the advanced paths?

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Originally Posted by Turtle

I really like the way you put this, painted a picture in my mind. But I have a question, about the class advancement system in general. Assuming SE were to introduce more jobs later on, would they just link it to the general jobs we have now? If so, would they have to introduce them in sets of 6, to keep each job on level playing fields? I'm glad this topic is so hot, its one of my biggest concerns.

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Not necessarily they could introduce a new base class and have the two advanced jobs link off of that every time they add something. For example if they wanted to add NIN and DNC they could make a kind of mish mash base class like they have now and then have the advanced paths branch off from there, that is what I would have thought anyway.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

http://www.eorzeapedia.com/2011/03/0...naoki-yoshida/

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That was my thinking, whatever they do they will only get one shot at it and it has to work, after they do whatever they decide there will be no turning back for them really they will have to stick it through to the end. They already stated that the system at the minute is a balancing nightmare and I believe carrying on further with it would only make things even more difficult for them, so they are going to have some tough decisions to make and they will not be able to please everybody.

Dylan

Sorry I didn't quote your post as I thought it would make this one too long and it is only straight above this one anyway for people to see ^^

I like your idea's they are great, I really do hope that SE looks into the forums and see that players can also have good idea's too. There are some amazing threads on here with some really great idea's from players that really want to help improve the game the trouble is like you said unless you start a new thread or are one of the first few posts after the OP no one really seems to read the rest of the threads so some great idea's go unnoticed in the longer threads ; ;

It was only a matter of time that some actual healthy discussion begins on the subjects the development team have put forth for us to evaluate. The social networking players engage in discussing relevant issues is not only a testament to the player base SE has built, but is the acknowledgment when something is wrong, everyone knows about it.

Plenty of criticism has only created an opportunity for SE to truly shift from the old model of doing business to the new model when done constructively, has created things like this very forum.

Accountability has been put on the shoulders of those if given the time and thoughtful evaluation of all of our ideas, will spark a new dawn in where SE takes their players and integrate them into their long term commitment to investing in players ideas and wants balanced with the development teams ability to deliver on content worthy of their name.

I think Alexia also has interesting ideas in the implementation. Indeed the question revolves around RentaHamster's quote that should SE make their move, it will need to be a well thought out and well implemented system because like most things in life no one ever remembers all the good things you have done, they only remember the major screw up you have yet to be accountable for.

Yes, people complain about the game being free, no content, etc... but the key here is drive home the point, we gamers pay to play. If I am paying for a service strictly for my personal enjoyment, then yes my expectations will always be high. Constructively, most people voice their personal opinion without any thought as to the logistics in implementation, time to write code, and overall balance that will be in direct opposition for the elite to maximize the consequence of these actions and either exploit them or use for what they were intended for.

We gamers have always been assumed to be merely pawns in a game that play the game mindlessly, without thought, or without intent. The reasons SE has been scrambling to create something new, is because they underestimated the fact that most of us FF11 players are masters of grinding, gaining SP/EXP , etc... they created an elite group of gamers by their own accord and are paying the price for being lax in that acknowledgment.

If anything our standards will continue to drive SE's focus, that will require the implementation of greater things based on the players ideas. The ivory tower SE lives in now is under siege and so the best way to re-define the industry standard is to listen to what we have to say.

Now Rome wasn't built in a day, so I implore people to give SE a moment to breathe, be constructive in your thoughts, and know that SE is taking a huge risk opening up their forums for our voice to be heard. Use this forum to re-define the industry. I have always been a fisherman in-game so i know what being patient adds to the equation: Quality.

Alexia is spot on when she describes the how to look at a complicated issue. I want to add at the risk of being pigeon holed into "go back to FF11", the ideas that conceptually made FF11 so damn good. The merit system SE created in principle gave rise to the best of the best putting in time to evolve a character into something we never thought was possible. My COR in FF11 was an incredible pulling machine, not because it was any different than other COR's options to merit certain abilities, but the customization created virtually exactly what I wanted out of the job: precise fishing job that could maximize the potential of the PT when it came to exp'ing or grinding now.

I would invite SE to take a look at a merit based system when considering introducing advanced jobs. We all know you don't have to be intellectual to grind a job to 50, all you need is time. To separate this rather mindless, but needed system is introduce what elite players want : a fully customizable set of directives that add functionality to the current class system and bolster that with ways to increase certain attributes. The guilds would be a good place to start. Each class has a guild, so begin there.

I mean does SE really think giving me a a transfer from piety to vitality for 8000 guild marks makes for a reasonable reward? It is like they have forgotten their roots, the stamina bar (besides the bottleneck it creates) would not be such a point of contention had they introduced real rewards like haste. The food issue is good for being well-fed but what the hell does that mean? All we get in food stuffs is a boost of stats +5 or less, it is then tiered to class level as if eating a honey muffin versus a poppy seed muffin would create any incentive to craft or even eat food for that matter.

Use a merit system in principle to create advanced jobs that require customization of what we the players want in terms of specific job/class customization. Use the current guild system to deliver the goods by performing tasks we know will make our character ours. Thanks^^

Ps. Alexia we know each other.

Hey Aneas ^^

Nice post and exactly what needed to be said.

I would love a Merit Point system I have often complained about the fact that my MRD is now pretty much retired now it has hit R50 ; ; I would love to be able to help people who are close to Rank 50 grind those last few levels and still be rewarded for the time I put in, and a system like the Merit Point system would do that. I think at the minute though with the final cap most likely not being Rank 50 I am not sure how they would implement it, unless of course they are saving it for the final cap.

Another problem which I know they are already looking at with stats on food and even gear is the Physical Level system. While it may seem great being able to put points into stats how you want them, this can cause huge differences in people's stats 100+ points in some cases, so they have had to tone down their effectiveness but then this harms the stats on gear and food. Equipping that +5 STR ring isn't going to make much difference when you already have 150 STR at base. Yes I know that people will say well you use gear and food to make up for stats you lack but that will not stop people trying to abuse the system. If the stats worked how they should then if I put everything into STR and DEX (supposed to help ACC) I should be able to hit for a huge amount of damage, then don't forget to pile on even more STR and DEX with gear and food and it gets really out of control.

If SE made the caps lower so you couldn't put 150+ into one stat say they made it 100 max to try and encourage people to spread them a little more evenly, then maybe that might work but then it kind of defeats the purpose of the system. I personally would prefer to have stats tied to each class that grow automatically per rank. Then once you hit cap have a merit point style system so you can add to them, but for the sake of balance you can only add a total of 10-20% per stat. So if at Rank 50 your MRD had 100 STR then fully merited STR would make it 120. That would make a fully merited player do 20% more damage than a none merited in simple terms. Obviously there would be a lot more factors in this such as gear and food, but as a base I think that is fair and would keep things balanced.

All these ideas are great. Keep it up. Although the classes reminds me, sounds like "Secret of Mana" class system.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

I have often complained about the fact that my MRD is now pretty much retired now it has hit R50 ; ; I would love to be able to help people who are close to Rank 50 grind those last few levels and still be rewarded for the time I put in, and a system like the Merit Point system would do that.

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Yes, I agree. I would like some way to be able to feel like helping my friends grind SP when I'm already rank 50 is not a waste of time. I think this could be accomplished in 3 ways:

1. Merit Points.

2. Let your SP bar fill up to 99,999/100,000

3. My adjustments to how the death penalty is implemented.
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ll=1#post33989

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New Take on Death Penalty:

All SP that you gain as a battle class also contributes to fill up a separate rank up bar that has 5 tiers: rank 1 - 5.

Each rank takes 20,000 SP to reach, so to reach Rank 5, you'd need to accumulate 100,000 SP as any combination of battle classes without dying.

There are six bonus buffs that you can choose from: +5% atk, +5% def, +5% m.atk, +5% m.def, +5% eva, +5% acc, -10%MP cost, +10%TP gain, +2%SP gain

At Rank 4, you can choose one. At Rank 5, you can choose two, and you also get some sort of visual enhancement to your character to indicate your lack of dying. You can change your buffs around at anytime, but there is a 30 min cooldown.

If you die:
You lose 2 ranks
You lose 3 anima
You are inflicted with Weakness

If you die and get Raised:
You lose 1 rank
You are inflicted with Weakness

Again, I want the number of Rank 5 status people to be rare, and to actually be an indicator of skill, because it's hard to earn, and takes the same amount of effort to reach as going from class rank 49 to 50. That way, losing your rank 5 status is also a bit of a sting.

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Rentahamster - I like your death penalty idea a lot, that is really great. I really hope they add something like that it is much better than the current system of which you have no fear of death really and not as harsh as FFXI with the EXP loss but somewhere in-between as you are only losing your bonus. So while you are losing something it is not like you could de-lvl your class.

Good job ^^

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

Rentahamster - I like your death penalty idea a lot, that is really great. I really hope they add something like that it is much better than the current system of which you have no fear of death really and not as harsh as FFXI with the EXP loss but somewhere in-between as you are only losing your bonus. So while you are losing something it is not like you could de-lvl your class.

Good job ^^

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Thanks :)

One of the things that I hear FFXI players saying is that they enjoyed having to grind, even at max rank, so that they have a buffer to prevent de-leveling. After they'd die they would have to find a party and grind XP for a little while to get their buffer back, and they enjoyed this for some reason.

The system I outlined would allow for that same kind of experience without punishing those players who do not find the same kinds of activities so enjoyable.

I love this thread... really good ideas...

My LS and I have been talking FOREVER about having advanced jobs that unlock from your main class..... we LOVE it...
I think most people would really enjoy this idea....
The only place we disagreed, or more accurately, couldn't decide on the right way, was what to do with classes after you unlock jobs

Some say the classes should stop at 50 and the jobs should have a completely separate set of ranks
And even with that, some say the ranks should start at 1 and your have to grind the job all the way up
Some say the Job starts at 1, but feels more like 51
Some say the Job should just be R51
Some say each class should have to choose between a dark job and a light job
An interesting note is some saying on top of this, they should introduce jobs down the line that require more than 1 class to be leveled, thats always interesting...

To Dylan, that would be a good idea from launch, but if people have already hit 50, it would be hard to make jobs that start at 35 and gain skills from 35-50... At this point, there are enough people at 50 (I know not everyone, but quite a few) to warrant the jobs starting there

It really made our day when Yoshi hinted at the advanced job system.... He didn't go into detail so speculation went WILD.... but this really feels like a god way to do it...

Rentahamster

I was one of the FFXI players ^^ I wouldn't say I enjoyed it though but I didn't see the problem as I always took my buffer to cap so it rolled over to merit points. I do however understand that other players would switch straight to merit points and level 75 gear or whatever and then when they died get really angry about de-levelling and having no level 74 gear, but I would just think well that's your fault for not having a buffer =P

When in grind parties on FFXI when it got late and you wanted to log but you were so close to the next level so stuck it out, you would get it then think hmm I better get another 2k EXP or something in case I die on the way back. That really shouldn't be something you have to worry about.

I think a system like your's is better for everyone as you shouldn't really need to have to keep levelling to have a buffer incase you die and it would be nice to reward players who take extra care to avoid dying.

Indeed. The thing you need to be careful about, is to try to not dilute the class pool too much. It's a tad hard to make every class unique when you end up having 15+ classes to choose from.

At any rate, I seem to recall Yoshi-P saying that they want to fix the most egregious problems with the game first, and balance all the current classes. Only then will they attempt to add more classes to the game.

personally i like to see classic type jobs as advance jobs and have the current classes as basic / base jobs. and use a combination of FF tactic job system & FF xi quest line. by doing so it making jobs harder to obtain so when achieved it is something to be proud of while giving a sense of building your character. your not only gathering skills, like how the current armory system is but like in tactics you need gladiator + conjurer to be able to pick up the quest line to unlock paladin. this way unlike FFxi where you need any starter job leveled up to 30 then do any of the advance job quest lines, you will get the sense of building your character and proudly saying i am a rank 50 paladin. knowing the effort put in and the sense of achievement but also others will know it also. so reaching rank cap for multiple classes would show how much effort you put into the game. this gives lore and present challenge for players to reach classes they have always loved.

current jobs can be listed with more basic names similar to final fantasy tactic (The War of the Lions) like:
Gladiator = Squire
Marauder = Fighter
Pugilist = Brawler (new to FF series)
Lancer = Lancer (lancer is a good basic name it can evolve into dragoon or something else)
Archer = Archer (archer also works fine it can evolve into ranger or corsair)

magic classes are harder to give basic names since white mage and black mage are usually the basic of final fantasy magic users. but like in final fantasy tactics it started off as a chemist. i dont think chemist would work in this situation but anything would be fine i guess. like FF tactic series which usually has many unlockable classes this will give room for enough classes which can be released in expansions.

personally i like to have a little bit more freedom with weapons maybe i want to be a red mage with a pistol or warrior with a 2-handed great axe? having freedom to mix and match skills and weapons would make a great game. sure you need some passive (traits) & active (abilities) skills that are only for that class while some can be crossed over for other classes to use. i also think that guild marks should be used for training type quest instead of instantly buying the skill.

I would like to see it similar to tactics when it comes to your first part where to become a Paladin you would have to be Rank 50 Glad Rank 30 Conjurer and do some decent length quest and at the very end you obtain an AF Sword & Shield. They aren't going to remove the Armory system so by getting a special wpn it would be awesome, even though I am with you on that to some extent they don't want a FFXI clone.

I would disagree on how you have what classes turn into what classes but overall me and LS had the same idea of how it should work it actually resembles EQ2 and some other titles. Also right now on the Back to the Question part he only put Eorzea because that is the only part of the game that is out at the moment. Think about it, when they add new continent and stuff they will already fit under the new structure system he is building so he doesn't need to say change the rule set of Hydaelyn.

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Originally Posted by Chibino

i also think that guild marks should be used for training type quest instead of instantly buying the skill.

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That really stuck out... I've never thought of that, thats a really good idea... instead of buying "Heavy XXX" or the class affinity... the guild marks are used to start the training quest that gave each of those abilities..... and the quest could even give some insight into the best place to use these new skills.... I like your thinking Boukensha

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

Rentahamster

I was one of the FFXI players ^^ I wouldn't say I enjoyed it though but I didn't see the problem as I always took my buffer to cap so it rolled over to merit points. I do however understand that other players would switch straight to merit points and level 75 gear or whatever and then when they died get really angry about de-levelling and having no level 74 gear, but I would just think well that's your fault for not having a buffer =P

When in grind parties on FFXI when it got late and you wanted to log but you were so close to the next level so stuck it out, you would get it then think hmm I better get another 2k EXP or something in case I die on the way back. That really shouldn't be something you have to worry about.

I think a system like your's is better for everyone as you shouldn't really need to have to keep levelling to have a buffer incase you die and it would be nice to reward players who take extra care to avoid dying.

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Ahh I see. Yeah, I was thinking of a way that could give the same sort experiences to players without forcing it on anyone who didn't like it. I think the idea of rewarding players for good behavior is more important than punishing them for bad behavior.

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Originally Posted by Rentahamster

Ahh I see. Yeah, I was thinking of a way that could give the same sort experiences to players without forcing it on anyone who didn't like it. I think the idea of rewarding players for good behavior is more important than punishing them for bad behavior.

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You're right.. I propose a mi'qote spank house

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Originally Posted by Dargoth_Draconia

I would disagree on how you have what classes turn into what classes but overall me and LS had the same idea of how it should work it actually resembles EQ2 and some other titles. Also right now on the Back to the Question part he only put Eorzea because that is the only part of the game that is out at the moment. Think about it, when they add new continent and stuff they will already fit under the new structure system he is building so he doesn't need to say change the rule set of Hydaelyn.

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He said in an interview when they quizzed him as to what the question meant as players were nervous, that he said "I purposely used "In Eorzea..." instead of "In FFXIV". I wanted players to anticipate and think "I wonder what Eorzea's rules are?"."

That is what got me thinking about what he could have meant. I like to think that maybe he meant we are in a Big Fish Small Pond scenario and that in Eorzea we might be powerful enough to defeat what comes our way but once we step outside we realise that there are much bigger and badder things out there and in order to progress we will need to step it up a gear. That is how the advanced jobs come in for my line of though.

The final R46 Mission springs to mind here, as that got me so excited to see more of the story now, up until then it was pretty meh for me. But after seeing that I was really excited and decided that I wanted to get all my classes up as fast as possible so that when the content comes I will be able to jump straight into it.

Obviously this is only my interpretation and certainly not written in gospel so anyone can interpret it many other ways. I just think it would be really cool to go to a new place and realise that we are not as strong as we think we are to give us motivation for a more focused discipline.

The sad thing is that they have already made their decision and are not taking in any ideas we are giving out. They are going to see if their new idea will work and then they will get a popularity vote and maybe listen to us and change it then. When Yoshi P made that statement, he obviously ALREADY had a plan but did not tell us and all we are doing is speculating.

All we can do is wait. Ideas won't do anything atm, all they are are distractions.

Besides that, How can they possible add or continue with the current classes considering that everybody is already lvl 50 and then they make advanced jobs past 50?

*** that! I rather play FF11 and unlock them at 30 and get more advanced job abilities from 30-75 than continue to use lame weapon skills and abilities. Do you know how long that would take to hit 50 off of boring guild leves and then go to unlock a class that would only last 10-25 levels... Do you know how many freakin skills you would have or how little the amount of new skills you would get from 50-75? It wouldnt be much and you would still be stuck using all of those shitty weapon skills and abilities that were not well thought out at all but with a new "class name" You can already equip a grib of skills at lvl 50 which is completely unbalanced btw... In taht case imagine how many skills you would have a 75-99... there would be no diversity.

I highly doubt they will do that

From what Yoshi P stated, I feel that he will completely revamp the armory system and give the players what you expected/wanted from the beginning. EVERYONE and their mother expected a FF11-2 before the FF14 betas began and figured out that they are trying something new. And when the new system was introduced all the MMO players lit their copy on fire while all the fanbois placed their copy in their shrine located in their closet. It all went down hill from there.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

My Vision For Eorzea

So there are a lot of idea's floating around about how to implement traditional classes, some of which are great and some not so great, so here is my newest vision of how I hope SE shape the game. I did post this in my "scrapping current classes" thread but as we are not scrapping with this idea I thought maybe it deserved a thread of it's own, if you don't agree you can let it sink into obscurity. Anyway it may seem similar to a few at first but it does have a twist or two that I have not seen anyone else mention so please read it all before you comment ^^

First though I want to direct your attention to this question that was in the first player poll:

11. Would you welcome changes to FINAL FANTASY XIV that would drastically alter the rules already set in Eorzea?

Now we know 85.2% voted yes, but that is irrelevant here. How the question was worded was the key and I will get to that later as it is the main reason for my idea.

The Basic Idea

What I hope they do to introduce the traditional jobs is to add them as advanced jobs as many have said. However there is a twist with my plan and I am sure many will hate it ^^

As many are aware the final Rank cap for FFXIV is not going to be Rank 50 most likely it will be 99 eventually. Basically my idea will be when you hit Rank 50 on a class you open up 2 new jobs which you can level, you can do both if you please once you have unlocked them through a nice quest to introduce each one and the lore behind them. The jobs would be as follows:

GLA - Paladin and Dark Knight
MRD - Warrior and Beastmaster
PUG - Monk and Thief
ARC - Ranger and Corsair
LNC - Dragoon and Samurai
CON - White Mage and Black Mage
THM - Red Mage and Summoner

Now I have called these jobs and not classes as this is what they will be, ACTUAL JOBS. With these job you will not start back at Rank 1 it will be an advancement of your current class. So while you would be a Rank 1 DRK that would be on to of your Rank 50 GLA, so you would not be a weakling and have to return to the starter area's (that would defeat the point of having a powerful advanced class =P). Now the twist is that on all of these JOBS every skill and ability that they learn will be unique to it and none transferable to other jobs. You can still add every single skill and ability you have learnt from levelling all the base "classes" but nothing can be added from any actual job. So think of CON, THM, GLA, LNC, MRD, PUG and ARC as a huge sub job pool from which you can select skills and abilities from for your job. For example I could add Cure III from CON to a WAR but I could not add Souleater from DRK to WAR. Also you would of course be able to use abilities purchased from the Guilds from the base class tied to the advanced class. For example Archer's multi-shot could be used by Ranger and Corsair, Conjurer's Fast-cast could be used by Black Mage and White Mage and so on. They would have to add a few more interesting abilities to the Guilds for the base classes to make the other classes more interesting.

This would help add balance to the game at higher ranks and still allow a fair bit of freedom, creativity and help more with the lower to mid ranks.

Also with this I hope they would remove my pet peeve of being tied to a certain weapon, this would allow unique weapon skills for every weapon. The weaponskill's would be tied to the weapon allowing for you to have more choice in the weapon used for different situations, like DRK with Great Sword vs. Scythe (light vs. dark).

Back to the Question

Now one thing that give me hope for something like this was a question in the first player poll. Yoshi P. specifically stated that he had worded the question very carefully.

11. Would you welcome changes to FINAL FANTASY XIV that would drastically alter the rules already set in Eorzea?

Now we know 85.2% voted yes but Yoshi P. stated that he chose the word Eorzea and not FFXIV very specifically as Eorzea is only a small region of Hydaelyn.

I am really struggling to explain my thoughts here as I can't seem to find the right words to describe what I envision ; ;

It is kind of like in a movie when the main character is kind of like a street punk that is skilled at fighting and then he meets up with a master who gives him focus and direction and he becomes the best by using a combination of new skill's and old ones. I am sorry if that sounds so strange but I really can't think of a way to describe it ; ;

The way I see Eorzea is that it is only the start of our adventure, we ARE the street punk's and as we move to new places within Hydaelyn we learn of new ways to advance ourselves to make us stronger, which is where the advanced jobs come in. We see the power these jobs can give us. Imagine for DRK the quest starts with you going out into a dangerous area a cutscene starts and a huge beast attacks, you try your best but are starting to fail and then a DRK in full AF gear come's and fell's the beast with ease and thus your path to becoming a DRK has begun. They give us direction and focus on our journey up until then we were just kind of a jack of all trades. The idea is that the classes we have now are just beginner classes, maybe that is why they are a bit all over the place, they need guidance to become true warriors worthy of saving Eorzea maybe even Hydaelyn. Maybe that is why some some animations on spells and things are a little meh because they are nothing compared to the true power we will wield with our advanced classes which will really wow us, well I can dream can't I ^^

Anyway that is my hope for FFXIV.

*casts Barfira* ^^

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I actually love the idea. 100% Agree.
Being a Dragoon just sounds B.A.

Spuffin I
In all honesty I do agree with you the current system has a lot of flaws, I do not like the Armoury System as is as it just creates a bunch of mish mash classes all with nothing special about them. I admit I did expect FFXI-2 not a direct clone though like everyone seems to think you mean when that phrase is thrown around. I wanted an evolution, I wanted them to take everything that was good about FFXI and build on it make it better. I wanted them to look at the things that people didn't like and see if they could be reworked or if they needed to be scrapped. I feel that with FFXIV they just took everything they learned with FFXI and threw it away.

I know SE wanted to try something new but I feel like they did too much and I just can't connect with it as much as I would like too, I still play FFXIV a lot but in all honesty I only do it in the hope that they will fix everything and my time spent levelling all my classes while there was no content will not have been wasted.

I also agree that levelling a class to R50 is alot to get access to the advanced classes as even I would not like to have to take GLA to 50 to get access to DRK, but the idea's were based around what we currently have and what we currently know. The idea was to somehow get passed the current classes without people who had already achieved R50 not feeling like they had wasted their time.

Yoshi stated that it will take 2 months to rollout the battle system changes they have made so what they have planned must be pretty big, it can't just be tweaks and balancing to the current system. My hope is for a complete redesign with traditional classes put in place but I know that will anger a lot of people, but SE have to wonder if it will be a case of upsetting the few to please the many. The poll's stated that players wanted change, now SE need to work out how much change will be needed to appeal to the largest player base. I may well find that I am in the minority and that most people actually like it as it is, only time will tell.

I made this thread to see to gauge peoples interest and see what other idea's people had and there have been some great idea's and while I would like this system to be implemented deep down it is not what I want, it is more of a case of making the best of what we have got.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

Spuffin I
In all honesty I do agree with you the current system has a lot of flaws, I do not like the Armoury System as is as it just creates a bunch of mish mash classes all with nothing special about them. I admit I did expect FFXI-2 not a direct clone though like everyone seems to think you mean when that phrase is thrown around. I wanted an evolution, I wanted them to take everything that was good about FFXI and build on it make it better. I wanted them to look at the things that people didn't like and see if they could be reworked or if they needed to be scrapped. I feel that with FFXIV they just took everything they learned with FFXI and threw it away.

I know SE wanted to try something new but I feel like they did too much and I just can't connect with it as much as I would like too, I still play FFXIV a lot but in all honesty I only do it in the hope that they will fix everything and my time spent levelling all my classes while there was no content will not have been wasted.

I also agree that levelling a class to R50 is alot to get access to the advanced classes as even I would not like to have to take GLA to 50 to get access to DRK, but the idea's were based around what we currently have and what we currently know. The idea was to somehow get passed the current classes without people who had already achieved R50 not feeling like they had wasted their time.

Yoshi stated that it will take 2 months to rollout the battle system changes they have made so what they have planned must be pretty big, it can't just be tweaks and balancing to the current system. My hope is for a complete redesign with traditional classes put in place but I know that will anger a lot of people, but SE have to wonder if it will be a case of upsetting the few to please the many. The poll's stated that players wanted change, now SE need to work out how much change will be needed to appeal to the largest player base. I may well find that I am in the minority and that most people actually like it as it is, only time will tell.

I made this thread to see to gauge peoples interest and see what other idea's people had and there have been some great idea's and while I would like this system to be implemented deep down it is not what I want, it is more of a case of making the best of what we have got.

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That is exactly how I feel Alexia :) It came from the heart? I think it did :D

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-armory-system

here is an idea i came up with, with their current system

i think expecting a tier2 class from only ranking/leveling is to easy, we all know leveling up is given in any MMO asking to get a tier2 class with out any challenge other then getting to r50 is a game for pre-teens. sure a similar systems worked in the passed but making it to easy to achieve will lower the value of achievement.

unlike FFxi where you need any starter job to 30 to have access to any of the advance jobs quest line doesnt seem realistic. but final fantasy tactics needing multiple classes up to a pre-req rank like 20-30 to have access to a quest line would be more ideal in the current system. getting lancer for trick attack getting pugilist for sneak attack getting archer for flee to now have access to a quest line to unlock thief would work in the current system. if you notice not one class has what it is needed to make a classic job.

each class should have its own class only traits and abilities to make them more unique. passive traits that rank up as the class ranks up, and marks should be used for training quest which can give lore and how to properly use "Heavy ...." which can be used with other classes. this should also apply to active abilities each class should have enough class only skills that would some incentive for players to play that class, something similar to FFxi 2hour abilities.

this system would work with the current system with minor tweaking. but each class's "class only" traits and abilities would offer uniqueness. like thief only passives could be evasion up & treasure hunter, while lancer could be parry up & critical rate up, pugilist can be evasion up & base damage up, archer could be evasion up & melee accuracy up... along with class only abilities similar to FFxi's 2hour abilities can give more uniqueness needed in the current system, keeping the flexibility with the mix & matching skills. i just wish weapons was more flexible also with only artifact weapons that would favor some classes over others.

personally i would like to be similar to range physical attack version of a red mage. red mage with pistols that would be so cool. unlike FFxi's red mages had to run up to melee attack if they wanted to contribute with out wasting MP for debuffing/buffing. but that also puts red mage in a dangerous location in battle. a range melee version of a red mage would be more ideal for a jack of trades class

wow, everyone is having great ideas about similar to Final Fantasy Tactic. I wonder if that is the case. I would like to add that if your job or class can advance to more better or different abilities, that reminds me of the MMO called "Rappelz". In this MMO you can advance to more than 1 advance jobs and combine different abilities. I don't know much about the game, but I played once long time ago, you might want to check it out about the job or class system and abilities system.