Monk's skill Riddle of Earth is useless

I think, that the new skill Riddle of Earth is almost useless
1) It gives you the damage buff only AFTER you receive a damage. I wonder why we need this buff after the damage? We need the protection BEFORE the damage, but not after. It is a simple logic
2) GS duration extension will be applied with Earth Reply only, it means- only AFTER the damage. It means, that during some pause in the battle there must be a damage or no extension of GS for Monk. GS duration must be applied by the skill activation, but not after the damage was received

Im sure, that this skill must be reworked, because with the current bonuses and their work mechanics this skill is useless

Thank you

Are we certain that the GL extension is applied to Earth's Reply and not the base ability? The tooltip just says "Additional Effect" and not "Earth's Reply Additional Effect". I think people are getting it mixed up because the additional effect is placed under the description for Earth's Reply.

I have a 60-level Monk, but gonna level it UP. But my friend, who has 68-level monk tested this skill for me. Yes, it works just how I explained in the first message

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Originally Posted by ZerofraZ

I think, that the new skill Riddle of Earth is almost useless
1) It gives you the damage buff only AFTER you receive a damage. I wonder why we need this buff after the damage? We need the protection BEFORE the damage, but not after. It is a simple logic
2) GS duration extension will be applied with Earth Reply only, it means- only AFTER the damage. It means, that during some pause in the battle there must be a damage or no extension of GS for Monk. GS duration must be applied by the skill activation, but not after the damage was received

Im sure, that this skill must be reworked, because with the current bonuses and their work mechanics this skill is useless

Thank you

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If you want to get technical, Monk doesn't need the extra protection at all since Monk isn't a tank.

From my own use of it, it actually requires Monks to improperly perform mechanics and stand in AOEs that give vulnerability stacks (IE: SE's way of telling you that you're doing something wrong) in order to get its effect since it requires us to get hit in order to work, but this on it's own isn't its worst problem. Even if it was functional, it would just be pure button bloat that's completely redundant with Perfect Balance and reduces the times where Tornado Kick isn't a loss to use. For god's sake SE, you called this the Monk expansion, reduce PB's recast time to 60/90 seconds similar to where Enochian and Blood of the Dragon were in Heavensward and give us a new attack instead of an action that belongs on a tank.

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Originally Posted by ZerofraZ

I think, that the new skill Riddle of Earth is almost useless
1) It gives you the damage buff only AFTER you receive a damage. I wonder why we need this buff after the damage? We need the protection BEFORE the damage, but not after. It is a simple logic

Im sure, that this skill must be reworked, because with the current bonuses and their work mechanics this skill is useless

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So, you're saying that the only way Riddle of Earth would be viable, is if, as a monk, we had to share a split-damage AoE that would hit multiple times? Hey, we've never had that though, that is useless.

http://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/...20150624065957

the skill is pretty useless so far BUT we have yet to see all the content for SB so maybe it will find some use (maybe)

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Originally Posted by tedsharpy

the skill is pretty useless so far BUT we have yet to see all the content for SB so maybe it will find some use (maybe)

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The biggest issue with that is that it goes against the design decision to cut "useless" (Read: Painfully niche in use) skills and button bloat. If the skill is useless for more than 95% of content and encounters, then it's a bad addition. It's not even like Tempered Will where it's awesome where it's useful. It's just damage reduction on a constantly moving DPS.

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Originally Posted by tedsharpy

the skill is pretty useless so far BUT we have yet to see all the content for SB so maybe it will find some use (maybe)

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If we have to play the "wait and see if it'll ever actually perform it's function" game, then The Dev Team have failed in their stated goal to reduce button bloat and the number of failed actions with Stormblood in almost every way shape and form. Arm of the Destroyer is still unreliable as a silence and is still worthless as an AOE, One Ilm Punch despite now appearing to have more function is still as unreliable as Arm of the Destroyer is for stuns, The Fist stances other than Fists of Fire are now completely useless now that they've removed the health penalty from weakness, Purification now serves no purpose since our TP burn problems have been alleviated and we run positive for TP.

SE said that with the action rework that Jobs would come out with as many used buttons as they did, but they were flat out wrong about that for Monk. We have even less to work with now than we did in Heavensward.

Monk literally needs a reworking of its kit on the level that Warrior received in 2.1 or that Bard and Machinist received in 4.0, because frankly what we have right now is a bloated incoherent mess.

I used Riddle of Earth during the final trial. It felt very handy when the main tank died and I was next in line for enmity. I'm glad the healers were paying attention, because the offtank wasn't.

It has some situational uses, but I can't agree upon it being completely useless. One Ilm and Dragonkick still keep #1 and #2 for most useless

I'd say Riddle of Earth is worse than Tornado Kick, since I'm sure to is tornado kick at least once every boss fight (And more when I'm more familiar with content), and I cannot say I'm seeing the same usage from people who have RoE.

I think the biggest problem about Riddle of Earth only refreshing GL3 on Earth's Reply is the fact that it incentivizes taking damage on a role that should always maximize avoiding damage whenever possible. You're going to see encounters moving forward in which Monks stand in AoE that would otherwise be avoidable just for the sake of refreshing their stacks.

It's an absolutely terrible skill that only sees use in rare situations where you're probably already going to die anyway (tank dies and you're 2nd on the hate chart), or rewards Monks for making playstyle decisions that put more burden on the healers. And that's not even to get into Tackle Mastery, and what an absolute joke that is.

Monk needs a bit of attention because these skills are just -bad-.

Did the final trial and started susano'o ex. This skill is far from useless guys... on hit it gives you the extra buff and refresh gl, and this for all the knock back and aoe bait you have to deal with, this skill is so far, very handy

imo only bad skill so far is tackle mastery, but I'm stil waiting maybe raid will explain us why such skill maybe not. I was very upset before trying Monk 70 but now I'm very satisfied with it, gonna main it for this extension one more time

lvl 70 monk with quite a bit of experience in susanoo ex/tried laskhmi ex here
i can safely say that riddle of earth was the biggest surprise in term of usefulness so far; all the primals have a lot of mechanics where you'll Have to get hit by raidwide aoes and/or move away
the GL refresh is very handy on those in case you were targeted at a bad time and you have to go to the other side of the arena for a bit and the 20% defense buff is very very much appreciated during susanoo Ex at the very least

although this does raise the problem of making tornado kick even more useless, i think riddle of earth is just fine atm
of course you shouldn't force yourself to use it (and it's not for every fight) but i think it being relevant in endgame content is good

This skill should just "Refresh Greased Lightning upon used" and has 180 sec cooldown.
Fist of earth and earth's reply ain't neccessary at all.

I'm actually using it in content a lot. I can see where they want us to use it. I don't actually mind it now.

I use it in PvP. And that's it. Though when I'm getting smashed from all sides by a BRD/PLD/RDM it only keeps me alive for exactly 1/2 a second longer! Maybe it has some use for PvE like solo-ing a FATE or solo duty. But in group instances? Not so much.

I agree that Riddle of Earth is useless, but it can be used during meteors as well as other unaviodable damage from bosses.

In case my initial post wasn't obvious with the Nidhogg image, there's been plenty of cases where, as a monk, you're taking multiple hits of damage as a mechanic alone, not just being dumb and sitting in AoEs. It was prevalent in Heavensward, from what I'm hearing will be prevalent in Stormblood as well. Far from useless. o.o

PvP version pretty useless but starting in susano normal I was setting it's use.

So in doing the SB content I have only found a single use in which Riddle of Earth is used in order to maintain GL stacks. The damage reduction is never needed currently, this might change in raid content but highly unlikely. Only time I have used it is in Susano EX at end of Sword Phase to keep GL stacks before last phase. The requirement of getting hit in order to keep GL stacks isn't worth getting hit as most likely you'll be able to keep up GL stacks. In my opinion Tornado Kick>Riddle of Earth. As you still have more oportunities to use Tornado Kick over Riddle of Earth.

I agree... I was kind of hoping for a skill where we can weave Tornado Kick in our rotation without losing the stacks for the expansion but nooooo, instead we got Tackle Mystery... it truly is a mystery imo.

It's for unavoidable attacks in raids and for raid mechanics. You can't hit the boss, you're going to lose GL, but wait, you pop Riddle of Earth, get hit by the damage from the mechanic and have full GL timer again. It's useless OUTSIDE of raids, but in them it will be a massive godsend.

I mean, I use it for soloing... Sometimes...

Well, this skill is not used 50 times per fight that's true... BUT, in the new Ex primals (the only true relevant content actually), you'll find a good use for it. here is a concrete example :
- In susano, after the sword phase (dps check), use it right before susano hit the ground with his sword. This will allow you to go back at him with GL3.

Sorry to say, but in raids, where dps is actually important (ok susano Ex is a joke for an extreme primal), this skill might become one of your best friend ;)

Personally, I can appreciate the existence of Fists of Earth (and the new RoE) from experience with using the buff Fists of Earth regularly pre-SB during situational events that could not be helped such as, but not in the listed order:

1. Oh no! That boss cast is going to eat me! ><
2. Healer! BRUH! heals plz! *thinks A12-N green-mark-spread mechanic).
3. Soloing great numbers or soloing SB content.
4. I'm not a tank! But these mobs... they keep poking me! TANK! BRUH!!! DO YOUR JOB!!! ><!!!!
5. I hate to be lazy with any class, so I use the utilities to the max.

(cont...)
Slayeur - The Featherfoot Advocate. R.I.P.

Featherfoot and Fist of Earth allowed me to solo the add boss in A11-N because the OT had died. Yeah, I know... normal modes, but damage is still damage, and I wanna live o.o For the record, I have also been in successful savage parties and used the abilities all the same. My schedule does not allow static raid time, so */sulks* a hardcore casual I be XD

I'm with everyone on the disappointment of NOT receiving a more DESIRED new ability to use, but I also appreciate the survivability utility SE has given MNKs. Myself and random party/non-random party members has owed epic wins to Fists of Earth. So, on this one, it is just the perspective of the individual.

Fists of Wind - Great disconnect and reconnect uses (GL refresh the faster you reconnect with the boss)

Tornado Kick - used whenever possible for disconnects and killing blows & shamelessly: ACT meter wins XD

*feels hopeful for the future of Monk*

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Originally Posted by Fireselecta

- In susano, after the sword phase (dps check), use it right before susano hit the ground with his sword. This will allow you to go back at him with GL3.

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This is literally the one example in the expansion where it seems like you can use it as intended (and I may be remembering incorrectly but Perfect Balance should be close to off-cooldown by then as well). It's also worth mentioning this happens AFTER you are forced to drop stacks before the sword phase starts (and, surprise, RoE can't help you). It's useless in Lakshmi EX, the ult's transition is much too long and you don't even take damage. There are no other forced drops in that fight to use it on.

I've also already ran into at least one situation that required me to get hit by a dodge-able AoE to keep stacks in the Royal Menagerie. Not EX/Savage content but the poor design philosophy still applies.

Riddle of Earth, in my opinion, isn't a terrible or useless skill, but definitely not something that is useful often. If they wanted this skill in the game as-is, it should have been the level 62 skill rather than 64 so that at least you can be a bit hardier in the field when getting argo from random enemies or running fates, which so far has been the only time I've used it apart from having shitty tanks that can't hold agro on dungeon bosses.

But once you're not running things solo, this skill is pretty much crap. Tanking reduced damage on stack mechanics that hit repeatedly isn't that useful unless you went into it with low health since your healer is going to have to use the same AOE heals regardless of if you're in Earth or Fire stance, but it does mean reduced DPS considering if you're using Riddle of Earth, you're not in Fists of Fire.

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Originally Posted by deonfoxfangs

I've also already ran into at least one situation that required me to get hit by a dodge-able AoE to keep stacks in the Royal Menagerie. Not EX/Savage content but the poor design philosophy still applies.

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Are you talking about that one really big attack he does that pushes everyone back? Because that's what I did, too. I'll be the only one standing in it with RoE going - and I can't help but feel silly. If the damage is unavoidable, sure okay, but when you have some of us monks purposely eating damage to preserve our GL3 from dropping? It really does just feel like poor design.

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Originally Posted by deonfoxfangs

This is literally the one example in the expansion where it seems like you can use it as intended (and I may be remembering incorrectly but Perfect Balance should be close to off-cooldown by then as well). It's also worth mentioning this happens AFTER you are forced to drop stacks before the sword phase starts (and, surprise, RoE can't help you). It's useless in Lakshmi EX, the ult's transition is much too long and you don't even take damage. There are no other forced drops in that fight to use it on.

I've also already ran into at least one situation that required me to get hit by a dodge-able AoE to keep stacks in the Royal Menagerie. Not EX/Savage content but the poor design philosophy still applies.

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This seems to be pretty much the most common way for Riddle of Earth to function, and more often than not the game gives you it's universal sign for "No, you shouldn't do that" by giving you a vulnerability up debuff.

Riddle of Earth as a solution to Monk getting completely screwed by phase changes is just asinine, it only works as its supposed to a very small minority of the time, since it usually either doesn't work because there isn't an AOE, the AOE comes out too late, or requires you to play like an idiot.

Having some outlier cases of usefulness does not mean something is good or was a good addition. The vast majority of times when large damage goes out the boss is away for too long so you lose GL again even if you were to use it. Honestly something better would have been to be able to use chakras to boost to GL or something.