Cross Class Skills for PLD?

So since I apparently can't get anywhere in SB, and I'm pretty tired of fates after number 1456, I thought I'd come here and ask what cross-class skills people thought would be good for:

1) General 4 person stuff that's easy and features large pulls and...
2) Actual / savage content that's not easy.

I like a whole bunch of the skills now as opposed to before, where I didn't have to think about what to put in at all.

I haven't put much thought into this, but for now I'm thinking that Rampart, Provoke, and Convalescence are no brainers. Reprisal probably is too. That last slot though, I'm not sure. I'm just using the parry up one for now, whatever that was called.

Anyone have better ideas? Is the AoE provoke just an entirely situational thing not worth slotting in unless you know you'll need it beforehand?


Edit: Also, has anyone figured out anything about the value of Tenacity, or is it far too early for the results to be in on that yet?

Awareness is still a great combo for Bulwark, so that's great for dungeons.

Shirk has two uses I can think of: 1, making tank swaps easier. OT Vokes, MT Shirk. 2, adding aggro to MT in trials with no swap. OT can Shirk a bunch of hate over periodically so the MT needs less aggro combo. Now it doesn't seem worth it to use a slot in either case, but the meta hasn't developed yet, so I could be wrong there.

Rampart and convalescence are 100% always because they synergise so well with our job. Awareness is great with bulwark or even just to get more blocks. Personally haven't taken reprisal, it's nice but PLD already has a fair amount of party wide mitigation, leave that to the DRKs and WARs.

Ultimatum seems kind of useless, the only time I see using that is if we wipe in a dungeon and a dps/healer brings the rest of the pack back to the start. Shirk is nice for tank swaps and just generally helping MT keep the lead. Anticipation isn't great for PLD because parry checks after block so it's less effective for us than the other tanks. Interject is situational and since we have shield bash we don't need low blow.

So my setup is provoke, rampart, convalescence, awareness and 1 situational spot where I'll put the other moves based on need, when I need nothing, I put reprisal.

I'm skipping Provoke. I think it's better to learn to manage my threat than rely on a gimmick that only puts me 1 point above someone else and then hope nobody attacks that thing until I can... manage my threat anyway... :)

Low Blow - an off GCD interrupt is vital.
Rampart - damage mitigation
Convalescence - alternative path to mitigation
Reprisal - alternative path to mitigation
Ultimatum - temporarily on the bar to 'play around with it' in the open world since all I'm doing in this game is spamming Raubahn anyway...

I am debating putting in Awareness or Anticipation once I had gotten the 'fun' out of spamming Ultimatum in fates.

In any tank swap content, I would like use Shirk... for when I'm wanting to not be the active tank... to force threat onto the other tank.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Makeda

I'm skipping Provoke. I think it's better to learn to manage my threat than rely on a gimmick that only puts me 1 point above someone else and then hope nobody attacks that thing until I can... manage my threat anyway... :)

Low Blow - an off GCD interrupt is vital.
Rampart - damage mitigation
Convalescence - alternative path to mitigation
Reprisal - alternative path to mitigation
Ultimatum - temporarily on the bar to 'play around with it' in the open world since all I'm doing in this game is spamming Raubahn anyway...

I am debating putting in Awareness or Anticipation once I had gotten the 'fun' out of spamming Ultimatum in fates.

In any tank swap content, I would like use Shirk... for when I'm wanting to not be the active tank... to force threat onto the other tank.

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I don't think you have tanked any decently hard content in your entire life my friend if your saying that.

A glitch let me keep raise equipped.

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Originally Posted by Makeda

I'm skipping Provoke.

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u wot?

Provoke is useful for many different reasons, most if which gave nothing to do with you properly holding hate.

I'm taking Rampart, Provoke, Convalescence and Awareness for pretty much everything. I thought I'd be a bigger fan of Reprisal, but I haven't really touched it since putting on my bar. That being said, I've just been doing fates and haven't done anything challenging yet.

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Originally Posted by Mnemosynia

I don't think you have tanked any decently hard content in your entire life my friend if your saying that.

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I've been an MMO tank since 2005. I've very rarely needed taunt mechanics. A real tank keeps threat, and knows how to get snap aggro. When mechanics specifically call for a taunt swap - I might use it. But only if it actually also holds threat for some length of time while you gain it off the other tank, or resets the other tank's threat for an amount of time.

Otherwise it's a gimmick skill.

It is much more useful to have good skills for damage mitigation.

All provoke does it put you 1 point of threat above whoever was at top. There are a dozen other ways to get there - that are also likely to keep you there.

A good Duty Finder set is, imo:

Provoke - obvious use.
Rampart - obvious use.
Anticipation - the short CD makes it really good for dungeons, specially when paired with Awareness.
Awareness - see above, though it can also be paired with Bulwark so it has a double use.
Convalescence/Reprisal - I personally have Reprisal, but Conval is a good tool for dungeons too, specially if you have a SCH as your healer. With a WHM and AST you have to use Conval before the pull starts so that their regens will get the full effect, but SCH can make use if it no matter the timing.

For harder content, it will heavily vary from fight to fight, specially at lvl 60, once PLD and DRK get their OT shields, which might make it so Rampart isn't absolutely needed.

Since I m still leveling, I would keep provoke, rampart, awareness, reprisal, convalescence. Other role skills are I don't know, I will change reprisal with ultimatum, I think there will be a fight where ape swap be needed

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Makeda

I've very rarely needed taunt mechanics. A real tank keeps threat, and knows how to get snap aggro. When mechanics specifically call for a taunt swap - I might use it. But only if it actually also holds threat for some length of time while you gain it off the other tank, or resets the other tank's threat for an amount of time.

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In so many ways no.
How do you plan on getting hate from me for a tank swap mechanic when you'll be no where near my threat level? Do you plan on dragging down the overall damage by staying one step behind me in your tank stance and enmity combo?
Provoke may put you 1 point above the leader, but when the leader has 75% more aggro bar than you, it means a lot more than 1 point.

I'd hate to be in your group if that's the case, that you wont sacrifice a cross class ability for the key component for every tank to have because you're role playing yourself as some tank god?
Case in point, have your provoke button, god dammit!

Lol all these tanks saying provoke is useless... and people think jump potions make bad players.


how is PLD gonna tank swap with WAR when PLDs dps rotation makes no hate and WARs makes a ton?

how are you gonna get hate when you die? tank dies = wipe then?

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Originally Posted by Makeda

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The question was about what content you tanked in FFXIV though. Because considering your joining date on the forums, you have witnessed a batload of fights needing those tank swaps, and needing provoke.

T1, T2, T5 needed provoke (though T5 has been solo tanked soon enough, but the initial concept was a tank swap). Garuda Ex, Titan Ex, Ifrit Ex, Ramuh Ex needed a tank swap. Shiva Ex had tank swaps encouraged but not actually needed per say.

T6 had tank swaps. T10, T11, T12 had tank swaps.

A1 and A3 needed provoke. A5,A7 and A8 encouraged it a lot. can't comment on the savage versions since I didn't enter them but I'd think the swaps were forced there.

Thordan required provoke too.

You can argue all you want, if you manage a tank swap without using provoke, either you or your tank mate is doing an horrible job. And it's not like a provoke is hard to do either. Provoke into halone, even off-combo, is usually enough to keep hate easily

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Originally Posted by Kuwagami

can't comment on the savage versions since I didn't enter them but I'd think the swaps were forced there.

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A10s makes you provoke every 90 seconds or so lol, you can tank ult the hits but its desgined for OT to voke off MT and MT runs away. if boss mob follows MT bye bye MT. damage is based on proximity to boss

I see a lot more fans of awareness than I expected. Which might be my fault, since I've never actually checked.... anyone know (roughly) what the crit hit% on you of basic enemies in standard instances are?

Provoke Rampart Conva Reprisal Shirk
In single tank areas shirk->whatever. In a raid fight where I need an off GCD stun or a silence I'll probably drop convalescence, since there's almost always something to Reprisal and I don't really think it's worth giving up Shirk if raids are anything like 2.x or 3.x.

Any time you are at risk of dying and can be revived you need provoke to grab back the boss/trash, so voke or the AOE voke, one or the other depending on the instance, at all times is pretty smart, not like forgoing it for an extra slot is making you OP. And if the team ask why you didn't provoke when such a recovery was possible, and you say "don't have voke slotted," you're going to get your weekly supplement of sodium.

Rest of it changes with the encounter, dungeon, primal, raid etc. Awareness I substitute out with Shirk/CC depending on the instance. But for the dungeons I've been doing:

Voke, Rampart, Convalescence, Reprisal, Awareness.

Would be nice for them to merge Anticipation and Awareness CD.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Makeda

I've been an MMO tank since 2005. I've very rarely needed taunt mechanics. A real tank keeps threat, and knows how to get snap aggro. When mechanics specifically call for a taunt swap - I might use it. But only if it actually also holds threat for some length of time while you gain it off the other tank, or resets the other tank's threat for an amount of time.

Otherwise it's a gimmick skill.

It is much more useful to have good skills for damage mitigation.

All provoke does it put you 1 point of threat above whoever was at top. There are a dozen other ways to get there - that are also likely to keep you there.

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Your funny.

I am permanantly traumatized by garuda extreme because of the time i tried to get my first clear. in the course of a week my parties all wiped because one of the tanks didn't have provoke to swap hate for spiny plumes mechanic, which always ended in a wipe. (too many stacks = dead tank, no matter how good you are.)

don't be one of those failtanks. you don't even have to level another job for provoke now! for those times you are killed midbattle, or need to swap with your cotank, or your whm spams medica II or something at the start of a fight, provoke is a lifesaver.

I'm still doing the MSQ and mainly soloing doing 4-man DF, therefore so far I use Rampart, Convalescence, Anticipation, Awareness and Provoke, as they are the closest to what I had before.

Anticipation is definitely the one that can easily be switched depending on the situation, Awareness being the second one. However, I feel like the other three are mandatory.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Makeda

I'm skipping Provoke. I think it's better to learn to manage my threat than rely on a gimmick that only puts me 1 point above someone else and then hope nobody attacks that thing until I can... manage my threat anyway... :)

Low Blow - an off GCD interrupt is vital.
Rampart - damage mitigation
Convalescence - alternative path to mitigation
Reprisal - alternative path to mitigation
Ultimatum - temporarily on the bar to 'play around with it' in the open world since all I'm doing in this game is spamming Raubahn anyway...

I am debating putting in Awareness or Anticipation once I had gotten the 'fun' out of spamming Ultimatum in fates.

In any tank swap content, I would like use Shirk... for when I'm wanting to not be the active tank... to force threat onto the other tank.

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oh, no! do not I repeat DO NOT! skip provoke, you need that ability pretty much in 70% of end game content. there's a reason they put it on cross role system.