Non-Flame crafters getting burned

Well, it seems like those promises of "pick a GC for the story, items won't be an issue" are a wash.

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

Not too much JP players happy about this post from the Rep.
Thread talks about Uldah's new GC gear which has crafting skill up (pants/shoes) which Limsa/Gridania doesn't have and they are saying YoshiP promised it wont affect which country you chose and this kind issue popped up.

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皆さん、こんばんは。
Good evening every one,

ウルダハンサージェント・サルエル／ウルダハンサージェント・クラ コーが、不滅隊のみで交換が可能になっているなど、1都市でしか入手できないアイテムがありますが、こちらは今後追加されるアイテムでもちろんバランスを 取っていきます。特定のグランドカンパニーじゃないとこの性能の装備品は手に入らない！ということにはなりませんのでご安心ください。
There are items such as Flame Sergeant's Sarouel/Flame Sergeant's Crakows which can only be obtained from 1 city but we will balance them out with items released in future so not being in specific GC to obtain specific gear! type of situation wont occur so please don't worry.

また、ロミンサンボウ／グリダニアンショートボウ／ウルダハンコンポジットボウに関して、確かにダメージ値だけを見るとウルダハンコンポジットボウが強く見えますが、1秒間あたりのダメージ量（DPS）では、3つの装備品に大きな差はありません。
Also for bow for Limsa/Gridania/Uldah - although if you look at the damage value Uldah's one looks strong but for DPS there isn't much difference.

また何かあればフィードバックをお願いします。
If there is anything else please leave a feedback

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**start a new thread if there isn't any already**
Basically JP players saw this post and some are pissed off that Rep said "released in future" if you know from FFXI when they say "In future" it can be months later which just puts that other city in lead and unlike FFXI you can spend more GC points on other cities to try and obtain so that isn't helping that rep post either, they also saying for the bow even though the Damage value is different and wont affect much on the DPS but how about damage on WS? stuff like that..

gonna say again... *start a new thread about this one if there isn't any to talk about this one*

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I know they're saying they'll balance it "in the future" but there's no reason for this. It feels like we're being punished for leaving Ul'dah.

[Rage]
Christmast present from SE is punishment
[/Rage]

edit: dear SE I dont mind if you copy and paste the stats from 1 piece of armor to another

materia is better anywayz

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

materia is better anywayz

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You can't put crafting skill + materia to pants/shoes, can only attach them to main/sub tool so doesn't really help there either :)

Ul'dah doesnt get +Output rings :(

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

materia is better anywayz

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Accept you can't put crafter's materia on legs. Only tools.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

Ul'dah doesnt get +Output rings :(

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True, but they have a comparable ring which gives Gathering and Perception instead of Output and Perception.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

Non-Flame crafters getting burned

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As they should, Flames for Life! :P

/care-ò-meter low.
I joined uldah just for raubhan, not the crappy items they could offer

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

Accept you can't put crafter's materia on legs. Only tools.

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You can put materia with crafting class stats (Dex for weaver, VIT for leatherworker) on the other gears.

I just got the non-Flame crafters getting burned title, ah-hah~hah+hah!

...I need to look at the rewards, I think I skipped over them after I saw that an Archer could use a Fork, a Guisarme, and other things. That should be updated by now though.

*shows an archer shooting out a short spear from a long bow*

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Originally Posted by Felis

You can put materia with crafting class stats (Dex for weaver, VIT for leatherworker) on the other gears.

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Stat materia can go on more pieces like tools, body, head and hands. Any way you spin it, these items give members of the Flames a lot more options about how to customize.

Not really, its only +8 more craftmanship on legs over regular gear or +5 more magic craftsmanship on feet. IMO it isn't as big of an issue as when weapons were Company-exclusive

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Originally Posted by Estellios

Not really, its only +8 more craftmanship on legs over regular gear or +5 more magic craftsmanship on feet. IMO it isn't as big of an issue as when weapons were Company-exclusive

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It's +18 craftsmanship on legs and +15 magic craftsmanship on feet.

Edit for comprehension fail: You said "more". My bad.

Still, that's +8 and +5 non Flames have to make up for on their tools alone.

Sephrick brings up a very good point, and raises questions about "uniqueness" and fairness between mutually exclusive items.

Like the debate about Raid Items being better/worse than Crafted Items (and one set of players feeling left out, or worried they're marginalized)... so here with Grand Company items.

If they make one nation's Company Items better than others, then it marginalizes the other 2 nations' players.

But if they make them all the same (or within, say, 1 or 2 points from each other), what's the point of making Company Items except for looks or something to spend it on?

Promising future items that will make up for the "imbalance" may seem OK, but then when those come out, the nation(s) that got left out for those future items will complain as well.

So put materia on your tools. I bet your total stats (plus the gear that has Craft stats on it) will probably be high enough for your crafting needs (especially on multi melds). This is a non-issue. I agree with the devs on this one.

He said it would be fixed what is the point of bitching about it? It wont change anything.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

So put materia on your tools. I bet your total stats (plus the gear that has Craft stats on it) will probably be high enough for your crafting needs (especially on multi melds). This is a non-issue. I agree with the devs on this one.

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It is an issue because a non Flames member has to use the first meld on their tools to achieve the same amount of those stats. Whereas a Flames member is free to do what they want with their tools -- whether it be even more of those stats or primary stats.

Craftsmanship affects success and progress, meaning members of the Flames have an advantage to be more successful quicker because they get stats in slots the other two nations cannot.

The two nations can, they just wanna cry about something that's easily remedied and/or surpassed.

"Oh... Uldahns can finish their successes quicker!" (theoretically) "I have to spend 2 whole seconds melding a materia to my gear"

Big deal.

What if they allow us to purchase from other company's, as long as your at the right rank and for a higher seal cost.

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Originally Posted by HiirNoivl

The two nations can, they just wanna cry about something that's easily remedied and/or surpassed.

"Oh... Uldahns can finish their successes quicker!" (theoretically) "I have to spend 2 whole seconds melding a materia to my gear"

Big deal.

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Your lack of empathy for your fellow players is disheartening.

The simple fact is, one of the Grand Companies were given an advantage through gear when Yoshida said they wouldn't. It's the principal that is the issue. We cannot change companies and cannot purchase their items.

This was a largely expressed concern months ago and we were reassured item rewards wouldn't be an issue. Now they are.

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Originally Posted by Lehed

What if they allow us to purchase from other company's, as long as your at the right rank and for a higher seal cost.

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That would be the ideal solution but when asked that months ago the devs said they have no plans for it.

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

What if they allow us to purchase from other company's, as long as your at the right rank and for a higher seal cost.

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That would be the ideal solution but when asked that months ago the devs said they have no plans for it.

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Didn't you know that good design dictates arbitrary and punitive restrictions?

Haha, even SE has thrown in the towel and acknowledged Ul'dah's superiority.

Wow, seriously, a 15th thread on this? Can't you just cry on the same thread as everyone else? Everyone of you guys has this dumb idea that your crying is so important that it deserves its own thread.

Get over yourself. So what if one GC item is better then the other? if its the 23rd, 24th, 25th best item in slot in the game, who cares which one is better or worse then the other? When they are 22 other items for that slot in the game, your gonna start a 15th thread to cry about it.





AND

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Originally Posted by Fated

Haha, even SE has thrown in the towel and acknowledged Ul'dah's superiority.

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what he said ^^

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Originally Posted by Fated

Haha, even SE has thrown in the towel and acknowledged Ul'dah's superiority.

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pretty sure SE even put it in the lore, didn't they mention the other nations look up to Ul'dah for their military might to save them from the oncoming invasion of the empire

I'm stopping by to give you Triairy's post about the new Grand Company items coming in patch 1.20.

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Originally Posted by Triairy

Good evening, everybody.

There are items that can only be obtained in one city, such as Flame Sergeant’s Sarouel and Flame Sergeant’s Crakows which can only be purchased by the Immortal Flames members. However, we will be adding other items in the future in order to maintain a balance. Therefore, there will be no scenario in which the gear items of a certain quality can only be obtained by members of a certain Grand Company.

Also, if you compare the damage outputs for things like the Lominsan Bow, the Gridanian Shortbow and the Ul’dahn Composite Bow, it seems like the Ul’dahn Composite Bow is the strongest out of the three, but the DPS for all three items are actually very similar.

Please continue to send us your feedback.

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Also, we did take notes on all of your comments and will be forwarding it to the dev. team. :D

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Originally Posted by Rukkirii

I'm stopping by to give you Triairy's post about the new Grand Company items coming in patch 1.20.


Also, we did take notes on all of your comments and will be forwarding it to the dev. team. :D

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Thanks, Rukkirii! Hope we don't seem too whiny on your end. Just trying to create a discussion to figure out some design choices. Though, civil discussion isn't always the easiest thing to accomplish here.

Just implement a inflated seal cost for different company items and solve all your problems.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

Just implement a inflated seal cost for different company items and solve all your problems.

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I thought about that also like how FFXI worked but problem with FFXIV is the GC gears are meant to look for that enlisted GC gear so would look bit funny if you're enlisted in Limsa and wearing parts of Ul'dah and stuff like that; as for weapons wouldn't be as much awkward imo.

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Originally Posted by Reinheart

I thought about that also like how FFXI worked but problem with FFXIV is the GC gears are meant to look for that enlisted GC gear so would look bit funny if you're enlisted in Limsa and wearing parts of Ul'dah and stuff like that; as for weapons wouldn't be as much awkward imo.

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You have to stretch your disbelief a tiny bit, hell in XI I ran around Bastok and Sandoria with my Windurst Aketon doing missions for the King of Sandoria with my windy aketon (And signet staff) got a good chuckle out of me. As long as the cost associated with obtaining this gear is ramped up respectably I don't see any issues.

Hell give some a few NPC's dialogue to harass you when you talk to them wearing other company issued gear, that would be hillarious and amazing at the same time.

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Originally Posted by Jynx

You have to stretch your disbelief a tiny bit, hell in XI I ran around Bastok and Sandoria with my Windurst Aketon doing missions for the King of Sandoria with my windy aketon (And signet staff) got a good chuckle out of me. As long as the cost associated with obtaining this gear is ramped up respectably I don't see any issues.

Hell give some a few NPC's dialogue to harass you when you talk to them wearing other company issued gear, that would be hillarious and amazing at the same time.

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^ This 100%

You should

a) let DOL/DOH undertake the Supply/Provisioning missions for other nations at an improved extra seal rate and then allow access to the other nation's items

b) allow DOW/DOM to assist with any caravan escort, again for an improved seal rate that can be used in the nation assisted (might actually find someone to do caravans with then...)

c) or from another angle, let us sabotage and rob other nation's caravan's and walk off with their gear =o

or d) simply allow purchasing from other nations at a more expensive rate like buying other nation gear in FF11

lol... i just love how Triairy's greeting "Good evening, everybody" matches
his (or her's, sorry idk wich) avatar so well.

It somewhat gives me a feeling of "Your ordinary friendly & polite Automaton".

Now thats a cozy personality!

I gotta say, the title for this thread was pretty clever.

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I gotta say, the title for this thread was pretty clever.

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Thanks! Looks like that degree and five years as a journalist was good for something after all!

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Originally Posted by Sephrick

Thanks! Looks like that degree and five years as a journalist was good for something after all!

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Originally Posted by Alhanelem

I gotta say, the title for this thread was pretty clever.

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Right? Sounds like something Dympna over at the Harbor Herald would write!

I think at the moment we shouldn't be allowed company gear from other companies because we're pretty much enlisting in the army, which was far from what we were doing in FF11. I also think we should have unique gear between them just because it helps differentiate more between players.

Maybe the "better gear from company X" could be alleviated by balance stats differently. Like if Grid gets a INT+20 Body piece, give Limsa INT+20 Legs and Ul'dah INT+20 shoes. It would also be good to avoid overlapping stats with Materia so that more people will find use in Company gear. Of course, this is assuming Unique/Untradeable gear remains unmeldable.

The other option is to have different sets for DoW, DoM, DoL, and DoH, and give them different balances of stats, so someone wearing their company set would have the exact same stats as someone else wearing their own company's set. The individual pieces would be different but the grand total would be the same.

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Originally Posted by Estellios

I think at the moment we shouldn't be allowed company gear from other companies because we're pretty much enlisting in the army, which was far from what we were doing in FF11. I also think we should have unique gear between them just because it helps differentiate more between players.

Maybe the "better gear from company X" could be alleviated by balance stats differently. Like if Grid gets a INT+20 Body piece, give Limsa INT+20 Legs and Ul'dah INT+20 shoes. It would also be good to avoid overlapping stats with Materia so that more people will find use in Company gear. Of course, this is assuming Unique/Untradeable gear remains unmeldable.

The other option is to have different sets for DoW, DoM, DoL, and DoH, and give them different balances of stats, so someone wearing their company set would have the exact same stats as someone else wearing their own company's set. The individual pieces would be different but the grand total would be the same.

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Hi Estellios,

Yah, it's a real quandry: By making gear distinct / unique between the Grand Companies is having the effect we see now (people being marginalized / left out).

But then as you say, if we had full sets that all gave the same bonuses (just on different parts), so that, say, a full set of LL, Uld'ah and Gridania Gear all gave ~+20 STR, +20 DEX, then the only difference would be visual looks.

And is that what people want? It'd be fair, but I wonder if that would just lead to all the Grand Company Rewards feeling the same, but just looking different.

Non flame crafter here, and I really gotta wonder how you can possibly be whining/complaining about this? It's one piece of gear early in the game's life well before the biggest overhaul of all in 2.0. Go outside and get some perspective on what you're breaking apart over.

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Originally Posted by Kymusashi

Non flame crafter here, and I really gotta wonder how you can possibly be whining/complaining about this? It's one piece of gear early in the game's life well before the biggest overhaul of all in 2.0. Go outside and get some perspective on what you're breaking apart over.

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This is a really tired response, especially on these forums.

It's 80% more craftsmanship and 50% more magic craftsmanship than non Flames members can get. I'm not whining, I simply posted the translation and noted the discrepancy against prior statements.

Yoshida said "choose based on stories, the items won't matter," but they do. It's just a matter of fact.