Got kicked because timing of LB lol

So what is the best time for lb in 4 ppl dungeon?Just got kicked becauz I refuse to lb at the beginning of boss fight.

Entered the Vault with another MCH dps new to the dungeon. I think the 2nd and final boss are ez to wipe without good positioning and healer. From the trash I can tell healer is OK but tank can not pick aggro very well. At the 2nd boss, Tank asked me to lb even before the boss turn to its true form:( I refused because I planned to lb when the fight becomes harder (when there more black holes). So our MCH lbed when the boss still got half HP. The result is MCH died and we almost wiped...Both healer and tank argued that when u used lb earlier, u got lb back earlier, but don't u always get almost full lb at the next boss?? Considering the difficulty of the fight, I argued that it's better to lb at end.
Then at the final boss I double-checked when they want me to lb. AND I GOT KICKED because of this question:(

So what is the best time for lb? Am I really wrong...:(

It's definitely nothing to be kicked over, but generally speaking burning LB at the beginning of the fight is good practice because it gives the LB time to build back up over the course of the fight as opposed to using it as a flashy finisher.

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Originally Posted by Dualgunner

It's definitely nothing to be kicked over, but generally speaking burning LB at the beginning of the fight is good practice because it gives the LB time to build back up over the course of the fight as opposed to using it as a flashy finisher.

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Yes u r right. Like they said, its a simple math. But I've gone through a lot of wipe as dps in this dungeon so I'm just trying to make the fight easier by shortening the hard part of the fight if its other dungeons, I would not mind burning the lb earlier at all, but considering the new dps and the tank who can't control aggro very well, I chose to use lb not that early

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Originally Posted by Frostyy

So what is the best time for lb? Am I really wrong...:(

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I don't think so because the lb gauge isn't usually refilled by the end of a 4man dungeon boss. Also, that is not a reason to kick someone. Noticed people getting vote kick crazy as of late. SE needs to step in. Was in another another run where the tank tried to vote a new player because they died on a boss and didn't have the dungeon memorized. So just chalk that one up to jerk.

You just don't want to overkill something with it, other than that you can use it whenever you want. Using it as soon as possible gives you an opportunity to use it again during a fight but in a 4 man dungeon you won't even get it to the LB2, let alone getting it back. So waiting to use it near the end of the fight without killing the boss with it is the perfect timing I'd say. That way if your party screw up, at least you still saved the LB.

But I've seen way to many people when asked why they waited for the boss to be at 2% to use the LB answer "Duh! It wouldn't have killed it otherwise" ...Great, you wasted 15K of damage but at least you killed the boss in a cool way.

Hard to take you seriously when 'lol' is in the title and you're using sad face emotes to describe what happened....anyways...

In the dungeon you're talking about, safely assuming is The Vault, the best time to LB is right after he transforms. Doing it sooner does give you a bigger window to rebuild the LB before the next boss (Even more so if you guys take a while to finish that boss), not to mention you have much more space to make a mistake early on in a fight.

And some players will say it's not fair, some will say it's fair. It's all because of the 'difference in playstyle' that's argued about left and right in the community and it will never have a definitive answer. Is most of the party is saying to 'LB at X part', then just go with it. They can't complain when you follow what they say, and if they do, then it's an unjust kick and is reportable.

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Originally Posted by Feidam

I don't think so because the lb gauge isn't usually refilled by the end of a 4man dungeon boss. Also, that is not a reason to kick someone. Noticed people getting vote kick crazy as of late. SE needs to step in. Was in another another run where the tank tried to vote a new player because they died on a boss and didn't have the dungeon memorized. So just chalk that one up to jerk.

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I think that differs in dungeons. For lv50-60 leveling dungeons I remember its close to totally refilled. Like the Aery, u can always use level 2 lb on Nidhogg even when the lb gauge is empty after the 2nd boss. Really feel terrible because of this kind of votekick :(

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Originally Posted by Bacent

Hard to take you seriously when 'lol' is in the title and you're using sad face emotes to describe what happened....anyways...

In the dungeon you're talking about, safely assuming is The Vault, the best time to LB is right after he transforms. Doing it sooner does give you a bigger window to rebuild the LB before the next boss (Even more so if you guys take a while to finish that boss), not to mention you have much more space to make a mistake early on in a fight.

And some players will say it's not fair, some will say it's fair. It's all because of the 'difference in playstyle' that's argued about left and right in the community and it will never have a definitive answer. Is most of the party is saying to 'LB at X part', then just go with it. They can't complain when you follow what they say, and if they do, then it's an unjust kick and is reportable.

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Well I was trying to do what they want but feel like the tank thought that I dont want to lb at all...

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Originally Posted by Frostyy

I think that differs in dungeons.

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I believe they were talking about using it at the start of a single fight and having it refill by the end of that same fight, which might only happen if the fight goes on for longer than it really should.

I've accidentally used it at the start of that exact boss, actually (I meant to use it after he transformed and then proceeded to use it at the pre-transformation start cause my mind was in "do LB" mode), and it wasn't refilled by the end.

Note that this was as a melee DPS. You seemed to indicate you were there as a MCH, which means you'd have done even less damage at the start. Not really worth it then. The only place I've seen it be worth it are on fights where the LB resets at the start of the fight anyway and you're going in with a max pre-fight bar, like against Nero in Praetorium.

I usually don't think about LBing unless I'm in a party with another Bard or a MCH. Goons, Monks, and Ninjas have single target LBs that are more effective on Bosses. But waiting for 2% is kind of dumb since it might do more damage then is left. Usually the earlier bosses aren't that tough, so most people I know wait until the final boss. I have seen the occasional wierdo toss them off during a big trash pull, though. All of these fights can be finished without using an LB, so I probably wouldn't care anyway. It's a play style thing, don't think it's a kickable thing.

Let's be real, when you time an LB in a dungeon should have zero effect of whether you clear the boss or not. At this point in the cycle the clear rates for dungeons on first shot should be trending close to 100%.

While mathematically it is always better to LB at the start of the fight as it gives you a chance to build back LB1...it really shouldn't matter enough to warrent a kick. Then again, you could have always been flexible and just hit LB at the start too.

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Originally Posted by Bacent

In the dungeon you're talking about, safely assuming is The Vault, the best time to LB is right after he transforms. Doing it sooner does give you a bigger window to rebuild the LB before the next boss (Even more so if you guys take a while to finish that boss), not to mention you have much more space to make a mistake early on in a fight.

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I've seen the LB done at the start of that boss (yeah, it was my goof, but it's still a point of reference for time), at the transformation, and at the end...and it's refilled by the time we reach the last boss regardless. Really the best time on that fight is any time post transformation and pre-10%.

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Originally Posted by HyperSMB

While mathematically it is always better to LB at the start of the fight as it gives you a chance to build back LB1...it really shouldn't matter enough to warrent a kick. Then again, you could have always been flexible and just hit LB at the start too.

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I won't be flexible if it's a bad idea, and wasting the LB on the pre-transform portion of the 2nd fight in the Vault is a waste, and is such a bad idea. Sure, there are bosses where it's a good idea - Ser Grinneaux the Bull isn't one of them.

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Originally Posted by savageink

I have seen the occasional wierdo toss them off during a big trash pull, though.

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If you don't have a melee in the group, this can often be a better idea than saving it for any given boss if said boss has no adds.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

I won't be flexible if it's a bad idea, and wasting the LB on the pre-transform portion of the 2nd fight in the Vault is a waste, and is such a bad idea. Sure, there are bosses where it's a good idea - Ser Grinneaux the Bull isn't one of them.

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To be fair, while you are correct in the assertion that seems a very silly time to use LB, would it honestly alter your chances of beating him? I think you would find the answer to be no.

Look at it this way, for the 10 seconds you saved by not LB'ing him, instead of doing it to appease someone else in what is essentially casual content; you have spent 100x that on a forum discussing it.

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Originally Posted by HyperSMB

To be fair, while you are correct in the assertion that seems a very silly time to use LB, would it honestly alter your chances of beating him?

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It's not about beating a boss, it's about not going along with a silly idea. There's no reason to be flexible if it means you're following a silly idea.

And in the case of that boss? Depending on the group you end up with, it very well can alter your chances. A tank that positions the boss poorly (the last three times I did the vault the tank stuck the boss on the wall more than once, making dealing with void zones and the knock back a real pain as a melee and ultimately being the main factor behind two separate wipes), some members not paying attention and getting smacked into void portals, lower dps due to wearing a level 50 weapon (yep, saw that)...

The Vault can still kick an ill-prepared group's collective behind. Probably the only dungeon in the 51-59 leveling spread that can still make that claim.

Given that, I'll still advocate for not using the LB at silly times in the Vault.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

It's not about beating a boss, it's about not going along with a silly idea. There's no reason to be flexible if it means you're following a silly idea.

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If that is the hill you want to die on, by all means.

Simply saying it seems an odd thing to be willing to stand your ground on when it has so little impact. I'm not saying you are wrong, and I personally wouldn't ult him pre-transformation as I subscribe to the "ult for the kill" mentaility, but I think you shouldn't let it bother you enough to get kicked for either.

The story seems fishy like the OP leaving something out that actually got him kicked like arguing.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

If you don't have a melee in the group, this can often be a better idea than saving it for any given boss if said boss has no adds.

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it was the melee. I remember the tank typing "wtf!" i think some people have it too close to their regularly used buttons, or just want to see what it does in lower level content.

Chalk it up to difference in playstyle + someone with a bee in their bonnet. Most people won't kick you for not using an LB at the right time. Unfortunately, because it's difference in playstyle (due to difference in when to use LB), it IS kickable. Just requeue, and if you have a tank or healer friend (I see you're on Famfrit which isn't the Chaos datacentre so I cannot help, sorry), or a tank/healer within your FC/LS willing to help, queue with them to avoid the dreaded DPS queues.

Sorry to hear this happened, but yeah, it is what it is. Some people will kick over even the most minor playstyle difference.

As for when to use the LB, I believe it works best post-transformation because it means that phase lasts less.

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Originally Posted by HyperSMB

Let's be real, when you time an LB in a dungeon should have zero effect of whether you clear the boss or not. At this point in the cycle the clear rates for dungeons on first shot should be trending close to 100%.

While mathematically it is always better to LB at the start of the fight as it gives you a chance to build back LB1...it really shouldn't matter enough to warrent a kick. Then again, you could have always been flexible and just hit LB at the start too.

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Honestly, I dont think the time of LB really has zero effect on clear or not. Like I said, the other MCH who was new was dead because of bad positioning when the fight becomes hard, both tank and healer were under 1000 hp when boss is around 10%. Luckily the healer was capable to handle this. Of course this is not a problem when u got good teammates who can handle every situation, but when u got someone who is new or who cant pick aggro correctly, I think the timing of lb does help.

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Originally Posted by HyperSMB

but I think you shouldn't let it bother you enough to get kicked for either.

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Who said anything about being bothered?

It's about sending a message - namely that stupid ideas shouldn't be followed.

Of course, if you want to try and be positive about it, you can try and teach the player with the bad idea why it's a bad idea and why there are better ideas they should be following. I mean, good luck with that, but it's always an option.

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Originally Posted by savageink

it was the melee.

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I'd imagine it was the latter, heh. There's definitely enough of a cast time to panic/spaz and move to interrupt it as melee if you fat finger it.

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Originally Posted by Albinosmurfs

The story seems fishy like the OP leaving something out that actually got him kicked like arguing.

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OK if u want to know the detail after I asked the question, tank was like "See we wouldnt have it if the other MCH didnt lb", healer was like" Seriously? I would say at level 2", all I said was" considering the difficult of fight and possiblity to wipe" and "fine I ll do whatever u want" Hope this doesnt look like an argument..

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Originally Posted by Frostyy

OK if u want to know the detail after I asked the question, tank was like "See we wouldnt have it if the other MCH didnt lb", healer was like" Seriously? I would say at level 2", all I said was" considering the difficult of fight and possiblity to wipe" and "fine I ll do whatever u want" Hope this doesnt look like an argument..

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I'm guessing that's how they took it and that is why they kicked you.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

And in the case of that boss? Depending on the group you end up with, it very well can alter your chances. A tank that positions the boss poorly (the last three times I did the vault the tank stuck the boss on the wall more than once, making dealing with void zones and the knock back a real pain as a melee and ultimately being the main factor behind two separate wipes), some members not paying attention and getting smacked into void portals, lower dps due to wearing a level 50 weapon (yep, saw that)...

The Vault can still kick an ill-prepared group's collective behind. Probably the only dungeon in the 51-59 leveling spread that can still make that claim.

Given that, I'll still advocate for not using the LB at silly times in the Vault.

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Right this specific dungeon is the only reason why I was being cautious :( btw especially when we had wiped twice in the trash already because the aggro problem.

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Originally Posted by Albinosmurfs

I'm guessing that's how they took it and that is why they kicked you.

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Fine I dont know "when do u want me to lb" question can really piss someone off... I was just trying to double-check..

Rule of thumb: don't waste it. There's nothing the tank or healer LB can reliably do in those fights, so it just becomes an issue of using the LB as soon after it caps as possible while allowing for the fight to be cleared. This would, if unable to clear without the LB due to second phase difficulty, mean the start of the 2nd phase.

As long as you're not holding onto it just to use it at the end, wasting potential build time, though, it's not a big deal.

Sounds like you got teamed with the rare idiots OP. Try and forget about them and enjoy the rest of the mostly great community.

As for limit breaks, it really depends how long you expect the boss fight to be. no point using it at the start of the fight if you won't fill the gauge over the course of the battle.

in those dungeons is rare to not get at least lb1 in every boss and lb2 in the final boss

It's always better to burn an AoE LB against trash packs.

Some bosses have specific phases that need a LB to increase the survive chance.

One of many examples:
Sastasha (hard) 2nd boss: LB on the boss around 25-28% HP or prey that your healer is very good in rapid fast healing

And then there are also bosses were people tend to wipe at the end. In those fights the LB3 is reserved for heales or tanks, until it seem a wipe will not happen (and then still do at 1% boss HP)

its best to lb whenever lb is full insted of doing it when the boss is at 2% hp wich is what most people do so they can look like heroes...