Mu suggestion for SCH AOE DPS

Hey Guys,

So as we all know in 4.0 healer damage is being significantly nerfed which I have no problem with honestly. However AST has Gravity and WHM has Holy. SCH has..... Bane "What a joke"? Shadowflare "Really"? Two DoTs "Don't make me laugh"? TBH in 4.0 I will not use Bane much at all anymore and Shadowflare will probably not be used much either on trash mobs. Anyway my suggestion is how about Broil II become AOE? Use Broil 2 then it causes an explosion around the target, blasting any other mobs around that target. I understand this is probably asking for much but to just cast Bio and Miasma then spam Broil II on one target? SCH dps will be less than nothing in dungeon runs. If we get no spammable AOE in 4.0 I will not DPS as SCH on dungeon trash anymore. I will DPS only in the boss fights. Again this could of all been changed already as Yoshi P said there has been allot of changes since the media builds. We shall see.

It would probably make us too good if Broil II were a spammable AoE/DD hybrid with its mana cost, and it would cripple us if it had standard AoE cost like Gravity/Holy.

We're still going to bane in dungeons because frankly we can't do much else, though broil spam on 3 mobs or less is likely more worth it.

I guess someone will have to do the math to find out if Shadowflare is even worth the gcd. Bane is an ogcd, and you still have two DoTs, so I still see no reason to not cast it, but Shadowflare is questionable.

As for Broil II being AoE, I am not quite sure how Ruin Mastery works. Ruin2 is instant, but Rune and Broil are hard casted. If Broil 2 is separate from Ruin Mastery then I see no reason why it couldn't be AoE. SCH needs something. A ways back, I brought up an ability for SCH called 'Aetherial Implosion', which when used, causes Shadowflare to implode causing damage to all enemies within with a potency that increases the longer Shadowflare is active. As with all my ideas, it was shut down, but it's funny how they took a similar concept and gave it to AST in the form of Earthly Star.

We will have to just wait and see how SCH gameplay turns out in 4.0, but it will likely need some tuning after SB is released.

They killed leeches from the level 40 job quest and should just give us our own aoe in that slot like Meltdown from prior ff games. The Bane nerf was more focused on SMN from what I can tell since they have other strong aoe skills.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I guess someone will have to do the math to find out if Shadowflare is even worth the gcd. Bane is an ogcd, and you still have two DoTs, so I still see no reason to not cast it, but Shadowflare is questionable.

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Shadowflare is 25 damage per tick for 30 seconds, which gives it about 250 potency for full duration. It is always worth dropping in all but the most abbreviated AoE situations, and even in single-target fights where it will tick for about 27 seconds it's still a damage gain, especially given it does its work even if you have to cancel cast to move. However if the fight is single-target and it will end in less than 24 seconds then Broil II spam would be superior, assuming you weren't interrupted during it.

In other words "yes" for AoE and stationary boss fights, "no" for weak things that die quickly and bosses that just got to get up and dance all over the room.

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Originally Posted by LegoTechnic

Shadowflare is 25 damage per tick for 30 seconds, which gives it about 250 potency for full duration. It is always worth dropping in all but the most abbreviated AoE situations, and even in single-target fights where it will tick for about 27 seconds it's still a damage gain, especially given it does its work even if you have to cancel cast to move. However if the fight is single-target and it will end in less than 24 seconds then Broil II spam would be superior, assuming you weren't interrupted during it.

In other words "yes" for AoE and stationary boss fights, "no" for weak things that die quickly and bosses that just got to get up and dance all over the room.

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Shadowflare now 50 dot for 15s = 250 potency, So we can get full damage in shorter time.

Disclaimer: I don't scholar very often and mostly level it via summoner >.>;

2 possible suggestions for SCH ideas.

1) A level 40 (to replace leeches) job ability that's an AoE DoT+DD similar to WHM's Aero III.

2) A rather weird suggested I posted in another one of these threads. Either
----1) An ability on Selene/Eos that would release an AoE/AoE DoT on Selene and basically turn Selene into Eos while Eos would have an AoE cure/Regen that would turn her into Selene.
----2) An ability on the scholar that produced these two effects by effectively changing the polarization of the Aether in Selene/Eos.

This way you could change them out easier for various effects and as a way for extra healing/damage.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I guess someone will have to do the math to find out if Shadowflare is even worth the gcd. Bane is an ogcd, and you still have two DoTs, so I still see no reason to not cast it, but Shadowflare is questionable.

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Shadow Flare is off the GCD with these changes, so it'll be worth using in almost all cases.

Healer dps is not really even considered for dps in the eyes of the developers. Time wasted on balancing healer dps is best used elsewhere now.

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Originally Posted by Ashua

Healer dps is not really even considered for dps in the eyes of the developers. Time wasted on balancing healer dps is best used elsewhere now.

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For little effort and thought, they could have just given SCH a gravity/holy clone to replace leeches at 40, but they care so little about healers to even do that.

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Originally Posted by QuinRaines

Shadow Flare is off the GCD with these changes, so it'll be worth using in almost all cases.

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It still triggers a GCD. It's an instant, but still a spell and not an ability, though it will still be worth using regardless.

I know this may sound crass, but let's take the devs at their word and figure for most of the early parts of SB that HUGE pulls are dead. If so, what does this REALLY matter in the long run? I realize of course that I am probably naive for even entertaining this as the community will of course do our best to recreate speedruns in dungeons.

Another way to look at this optimistically, once geared, I easily forsee SCH NEVER having to actually spend a GCD in a dungeon run healing. Between Eos, Fey Illumination, Rouse (Or Spur, I forget which they took out), Whispering Dawn, Fey Union, Excognition (Which builds Fey Guage anyway) and Lustrate; I see us as having 100% DPS uptime.

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Originally Posted by LegoTechnic

It still triggers a GCD. It's an instant, but still a spell and not an ability, though it will still be worth using regardless.

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Apologies for the late reply, but the tooltip we saw from the media tour suggests otherwise that it has in fact been changed into an oGCD ability and no longer a spell.

http://i.imgur.com/TP03eOf.png

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Originally Posted by HyperSMB

let's take the devs at their word

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Devs lost the blind trust level of credibility in terms of balance and content with Heavensward.

Even if this weren't true, there is still going to be AoE somewhere. It might be for new players in old dungeons or in the next deep dungeon or whatever, but giving Scholar only this horribly crippled Bane (20% potency on targets past 4?) and nothing else spammable when every single other job in the game has AoE skills is a terrible idea. SCH's AoE for larger groups is almost as terrible as PLD 2.0-3.0 AoE now, it's effectively 1 action and that's it.

I actually happen to like the Bane adjustment, just not the loss of all fillers and no new skill to make up for it on top of that.

Best buff/ Nerf Broil two to 60 potency on targets in an AoE around the target, and give it scaling damage down of 23%, capping at 8% on the fourth target and beyond. Also Nerf Broil to 120 to compensate and keep it single target.

60 potency is already lower than both other healers minimum damage on their aoe spells, just leave it at 60 potency splash with no scale down!

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

A few changes that would make SCH go from a downgrade to an upgrade, while still losing many of the skills cut in stormblood.

Remove Ruin mastery that turns ruin into Broil. Instead:

Disastrous Ruin- Ruin's mp cost raises to 1.33 times that of Broil II. 80 Potency AOE within 8 yalms of the target. 20% chance your next ruin will be instant cast.

Shadowflare- Places an Aoe at a given area dealing 25 potency a second over 30 seconds. There is a 15% chance that each bio/bio ii or miasma ii tick will reset the timer. Can only be reset once every 15 seconds. While already active Shadowflare becomes a 250 potency aoe around the target, instead of a placeable field. Bane will 100% reset the cd. CD of 60 seconds.

Dissipation- Healing spells increased by 20%. Lustrate, Indomitability, Sacred Soil, Excogitation, Bane and Energy Drain have their potency increased by 20%. You gain III aetherflow stacks. If used while Fey union is tethered to a target, the target has 20% of their mp,TP and hp restored, a barrier of 20% of their is added to the target. Will overide any Galvanize or Nocturnal Benefic/Helios. Cannot be overidden, except by Galvanize or Nocturnal Aspected Benefic/Helios of a higher potency. Successfully using Summon or Summon II removes the effect of Dissipation. Duration 30 seconds. Recast time of 180 seconds.

Virus- Removes the effect of Addle and Feint. Target has 15% reduced attributes for 10 seconds.

TRAIT-Brilliant Broil II (instead of just broil to broil ii upgrade)- Embrace has a 20% chance of causing your next broil II to be instant cast. Upgrades Broil to Broil II. (Opening more opportunity to weave.) Duration: 20 seconds.

Deployment tactics. spreads galvanize onto nearby party members and resets its duration. If used on an enemy, spreads Virus to surrounding enemies and resets its duration. Eye for an Eye spreading has been removed since it is a role skill.


Fey union- When used with eos, damage taken is reduced by 10% on top of a ~350 potency, realword healer potency every 3 seconds. IF selene is attached, damage done is increased by 5%, spell based healing received is increased by 50% (Selene will not heal the target.)


If you feel this is overpowered, take a good long look at AST.
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Current Changes to SCH:

Bio removed.
Aero removed.
Bane nerfed from the removal of Bio and diminishing returns.
Blizzard II removed.
Miasma II removed.
Shadowflare removed from the GCD on a 60 second cd.
Spell speed pet action proc removed.
Virus removed.
Eye for an Eye placed as a role skill.

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Made a thread like this too. What really is going to hurt the class is how often natural weave time occurs. Right now every 18 seconds you have 2 chances to weave between Bio and Aero. Come SB, it will be once every 30 seconds with shadowflare as an additional ogcd... adding anything into their new "rotation" that allows an SCH to weave would give the class back it's beautiful fluidity.

AoE wise losing blizzard II and miasma II removes smart dps choices. Right now you count each mob and ask "will this combined potency of each mob being hit, outweigh one mob being hit by a 170 potency broil?" SB sch leaves no choice. Its bane and then broil the mob with the highest hp. My suggestion to that is by giving Ruin an aoe effect via SCH only trait. Splash damage on broil is fine, but there is no "smart" choice in it.

The lack of synergy between SCH and fairy is really sad, removing the crit pet proc wedged it farther. They had a great opportunity to add a fairy swap or some other interaction with dissipation and it's disappointing. Hopefully SCH pets will have learned a new skill 30 levels after their last one....

This is what SCH needs in 5.0, if not sooner. It was our ultimate spell in FFXI and fits with the theme of Broil. Meltdown

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Originally Posted by MsTanya

60 potency is already lower than both other healers minimum damage on their aoe spells, just leave it at 60 potency splash with no scale down!

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Can't have an AoE without downscaling! That would be unfair when neither WHM/AST has one.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Can't have an AoE without downscaling! That would be unfair when neither WHM/AST has one.

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Its already a 75% reduction from base potency and that's to everything effectively being steeper than holy and gravity plus its better than what we have now. Meltdown is ideal but this seems easier to implement on the fly. Do I think were getting anything at all? heck no. Can I dream? heck yes ;p

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Originally Posted by Jonnycbad

This is what SCH needs in 5.0, if not sooner. It was our ultimate spell in FFXI and fits with the theme of Broil. Meltdown

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Merton for great justice.

Also Weather Control. They had that, too, though I don't think it would be as handy in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Can't have an AoE without downscaling! That would be unfair when neither WHM/AST has one.

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Neither Assize nor Aero III downscale with multiple targets. Nor does Earthly Star presumably, just to mention it.

As far as spammable AoE it's true, I guess.

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Originally Posted by LegoTechnic

Neither Assize nor Aero III downscale with multiple targets. Nor does Earthly Star presumably, just to mention it.

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The answer to Assize is Shadow flare. The answer to Aero 3 is Bane, except Bane has a wider range. Clearly they need a downscaling spammable AoE like Holy.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

The answer to Assize is Shadow flare. The answer to Aero 3 is Bane, except Bane has a wider range. Clearly they need a downscaling spammable AoE like Holy.

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Except Bane downscales drastically, which is an interesting price for the better range despite the additional cost of an aetherflow stack.

And no, SCH doesn't need a spammable Holy-clone. It's obvious they're doing their best to homogenize the healers, especially in terms of DPS, but this shouldn't be the design direction we endorse. The classes don't all need to have cloned base abilities of one another. A simple AoE spike damage attack would fit the SCH class design of powerful abilities with robust cooldowns just as well, and could even cost a stack to keep it with the theme.

We don't need Unholy, but it wouldn't hurt to have something additional to the new versions of Bane/Shadowflare.

Bane is confirmed nerf as SMN tooltips from E3 were posted. I actually feel dirty reading it. Weakened Shadow Flare, no Miasma II, no Bio to spread, no Blizzard II and the Bane nerf. Are they being serious? Not only this, but the dumbing down of the class itself is even worse. You have turned SCH into a weak borefest, SE. Good job at potentially destroying my favourite class. I'll still level it and I still anxiously hope that it's not as bad as it seems. I really hope Stratagem is actually decent in raids.

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

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AoE wise losing blizzard II and miasma II removes smart dps choices. Right now you count each mob and ask "will this combined potency of each mob being hit, outweigh one mob being hit by a 170 potency broil?" SB sch leaves no choice. Its bane and then broil the mob with the highest hp. My suggestion to that is by giving Ruin an aoe effect via SCH only trait. Splash damage on broil is fine, but there is no "smart" choice in it ...

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Why would you make ruin AoE, only to have it replaced by broil at lvl 52? They could make ruin 2 AoE I guess, even if it has damage fall-off, but at this point, it's just complaining how it sucks so they might give AoE back with 5.0, if SCH still has a place in raids, they're not gonna give that AoE back any time soon. At least SCH still has off-sync DoTs unlike SMN, so some gameplay juggling DoTs, but WHMs actually get to do more DoT juggling now.

Simple enough. Boost Tri-Bind to 50-100 potency and make it Arcanist instead of SMN. That way both jobs have an AoE filler that replaces the loss of Blizzard II.

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Originally Posted by Vulcwen

Why would you make ruin AoE, only to have it replaced by broil at lvl 52? They could make ruin 2 AoE I guess, even if it has damage fall-off, but at this point, it's just complaining how it sucks so they might give AoE back with 5.0, if SCH still has a place in raids, they're not gonna give that AoE back any time soon. At least SCH still has off-sync DoTs unlike SMN, so some gameplay juggling DoTs, but WHMs actually get to do more DoT juggling now.

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I said to remove the trait turning ruin into broil. If they wanted to make SCHs life brokenly perfect they could aoe trait ruin and broil II could replace ruin II and be instant. Aoe is back and weave time for days. Lol

Happy broiling my fellow Scholar !