I have been looking at the potency value of dps skill of healers in stormblood and found out that in many case the DOT portion of our DPS will now be a DPS lost to cast them.
Lets start with SCH.
Here the total potency of base rotation skill of SCH.
Miasma = 300 potency over 24 sec
Bio 2 = 350 potency over 30 sec
Broil 2 = 230 potency
That mean miasma have to be on the target for at least 21 sec and Bio 2 at least 24 sec to be a dps gain over Broil 2.
So on most trash mob it will be better to ignore your DOTs and just spam Broil 2.
Don't think about using Bane with the massive nerf it received, you'll do more dps manually dotting the targets that will live long enough and spam Broil 2 on the rest.
Simply remove Bane from your bar and forget it ever existed.
For WHM...
Aero 2 = 250 potency over 12 sec
Aero 3 = 370 potency over 24 sec (per target)
Stone 4 = 260 potency
That mean Aero 2 is ALWAYS a dps loss to Stone 4. Just remove it from your bar when you get Stone 4.
Aero 3 remain pretty strong since it is an AOE and is stronger than SCH DOTs even in single target since it need to stay only 18 sec or more to be a dps gain over Stone 4.
And AST..
Combust 2 = 450 over 30 sec
Malefic 3 = 210 potency
Combust 2 is the strongest single target DOT and only need to stay on for 15 sec to be a DPS gain over Malefic 3.
But that's the only dot AST have now and Malefic 3 have the lowest potency of the healer's nuke.
So my question to SE is : Are Healer supposed to DPS in stormblood?
All 3 healers now end up with lower dps than in Heavensward and our DOTs have become increasingly weaker.
In many case, especially for SCH and WHM, it will be now better to simply spam our main nuke and ignore our DOTs.
Healer dps in stormblood.
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06-06-2017, 12:00 AMKassynaHealer dps in stormblood.
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06-06-2017, 12:05 AMKaurieHow does WHM end up with lower DPS? They have a stronger Stone now & their assize both heals and DPSes at the same time & they can spam holy's without MP loss with Thin Air. Seems like some DPS buffs to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kassyna
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06-06-2017, 12:07 AMMsTanya
I just wanted to add in that aero 2 is 18 seconds not 12 according to gameplay footage from the media tour so its still worth using over stone IV if its not already ticking.
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06-06-2017, 12:12 AMKassyna
If Aero 2 is really 18 sec then yeah it is a dps gain since it need only 15 sec to beat Stone 4.
I got the data for the skills here (Japanese) : https://www.famitsu.com/news/201705/...4.html?page=12 -
06-06-2017, 12:13 AMMsTanya
Yeah a lot of those tooltips are a little wonky. It seems they took the duration of aero 1 with aero 2s potency. Shadowflare also seems to be wrong since the gameplay footage shows it as 15s uptime, not 30 as stated in those tooltips.
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06-06-2017, 12:16 AMKassynaI only included the base rotation skill since spell like assize have long cooldown so they have minimal impact on the overall dps. In burst situation I agree healer are probably stronger, but fights are designed for sustain dps and not burst dps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaurie
And while I agree that we have stronger nuke, the point of my post is to show the weakness of our DOTs -
06-06-2017, 12:26 AMKDSilver
I wonder, will it really be better to cast dot manually on every mob for scholar?
We're losing the time of each gcd. -
06-06-2017, 12:28 AMLegoTechnicEverything is subject to change, but the tooltips posted in the Famitsu write-up are the most recent and accurate info we have available. A lot of the tooltips in the gameplay videos from San Francisco are dated.Quote:
Originally Posted by MsTanya
Things are still subject to change, but we work with what we have. -
06-06-2017, 12:30 AMLegoTechnicNo. What they meant is that if there's something like 3-4 mobs, you may want to cast dots on one or two enemies that aren't being attacked and then broil spam a prime target. This is because mobs die so quickly that even if you spread bane the dots don't have enough time to tick their damage away, meaning they can't do their damage, and worse yet if you DID bane and the mob that dies first is one with a 100% dot effect then that's tear-jerking. In trash pulls 24 seconds is sometimes an eternity for a mook monster.Quote:
Originally Posted by KDSilver
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06-06-2017, 12:32 AMbswpayton
But we lose the ability to stack dots as well as they auto upgrade by level, so yes all healers are losing dps in sb, whm will have aero 2, aero3, stone 4, they lose aero one at level 70 and 60 i believe, astro losing , combust one , once they get combust 2, and scholar is losing a dot as well. So it seems like dps is def gona take an overall nerf from healers and tanks
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06-06-2017, 12:33 AMKaurieLeaving out Assize on WHM DPS is like leaving out Deathflare in SMN's DPS. it's on a long cooldown, but it still contributes significantly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kassyna
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06-06-2017, 12:37 AMLegoTechnicThis is just looking at dots versus single target situations mainly, which is why AoE skills are not included. As an instant with 300 potency, using Assize is always a DPS gain over Stone IV no matter how many targets, though it's obviously even better in AoE situations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaurie
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06-06-2017, 12:40 AMKaurieIndeed, Assize is a great DPS ability on ST as well, and will AoE heal your team (with the cleric stance change) which means you can DPS more.Quote:
Originally Posted by LegoTechnic
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06-06-2017, 02:25 AMwinsockYes, healers should DPS in stormblood. They even made DPSing more convenient with dmg now scaling with MND.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kassyna
Note that in HW, there are already instances where you would not cast Aero III because of mob HP, but for WHM especially you get so much burst for that short period that your numbers will look great regardless
Whether or not dots will be worthwhile depends almost completely on the encounter. There is very little you can predict from the info we currently have.
Not much changes balance wise. SCH is usually the least ideal dungeon runner that is likely to be the case in SB as well. At least you get a secure spot at end game! -
06-06-2017, 02:31 AMEloahSCH is losing 3 DoTs, AST 2 and WHM 1Quote:
Originally Posted by bswpayton
How was/is SCH the least ideal dungeon runner. People were always happy to see me cause they "knew" I would DPS. Now I cant contribute shite.Quote:
Originally Posted by winsock
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06-06-2017, 02:36 AMwinsockWHM and AST at equal skill and item level will typically be able to contribute more than SCH to party DPS in a dungeon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eloah
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06-06-2017, 02:55 AMEloahThe point was missed. There is, or was now I guess, a reason Scholar is the DPS off-healer. While DPS was wanted by all healers, its expected from SCH. We had the best DPS of the 3 healers.Quote:
Originally Posted by winsock
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06-06-2017, 03:36 AMwinsockSCH can typically provide the best DPS in a raiding environment. They don't have the best paper DPS. They offer a substantial amount of healing and support while DPSing, are very good with mp, and less impacted by movement. They are the dps'er because they are so flexible and stable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eloah
However, when hps checks drop, mp requirements are lessened, and you move closer to paper DPS, WHM wins. In a dungeon environment, this is typically the case. -
06-06-2017, 04:48 AMSebazy
SCH's DPS viability in dungeons depends greatly on the rest of the group. I have all 3 jobs levelled and geared but will always go with SCH for solo queue.
WHM has a significant advantage if you go in with rock solid DPSers. AST is somewhat behind primarily due to the relative limitations of their stun vs WHMs, but then even a single target balance shines when you're throwing it on a SMN doing 3k+ DPS. Enhanced balances on the opening two pulls of Sohm Al on a geared SMN who knows what they are doing is eye opening to say the least.
SCH comes into it's own for solo queue roulettes imo. The worse your DPS are, the more effective SCH becomes, not being MP constrained is a huge factor if you land a pair of soso DPSers.
I can consistently sustain 1.5k+ dps across the entire instance as SCH with average DPSers (~1.5k-2k DPS), the magic number for expert seems to be around 4.5k to 5k, once the DPS and Tank are managing more than that, then my DPS starts to tail off dropping to around 1.2k-1.3k on average. For WHM I'm a pretty consistent 1.5k, on AST I typically see around 1.2k, both figures seem pretty consistent but will fall off a cliff with particularly bad group DPS. -
06-07-2017, 01:03 AMHappyHubris
Hopefully content is tuned for healers to full-time heal instead of being a healing/DPS hybrid.
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06-07-2017, 11:29 AMkoroko220Pretty much this. While I don't agree with healers doing nothing but healing, simply for the fact it's BO-RING, I feel that they gave healers just enough dps to clear story content, not so that they can help dps in dungeons and raids :/Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHubris
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06-07-2017, 12:39 PMThunda_Cat_SMASHButthen people will kick and scream they can't dps and demand SE Nerf the content.Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHubris
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06-07-2017, 01:02 PMCynfaelAt the risk of being a broken record, that doesn't work unless they depart dramatically from the current game design.Quote:
Originally Posted by HappyHubris
The dev team purposefully designs content so that players who practice sufficiently and have decent memory skills can succeed even if their twitch skills are lacking; a twitch model with faster, higher, and less predictable incoming damage can make for a more demanding and exciting healing experience, but that's pretty much a different game entirely.
Simply increasing the intensity and/or frequency of incoming damage in a highly-choreographed design like FFXIV just means that you use bigger heals more often and/or hit the same keys more frequently. Player engagement isn't really improved.
This is why I wish FFXIV had more of a support/controller option for healers to accommodate players who enjoy healing but dislike DPS. I can understand why SE keeps control options to a minimum (they're really hard to balance if they actually do anything), but they can be some of the most fun IMO.