Losing Scourge is a major hit to DRK dps, and completely unnecessary. We've lost a 500 potency attack that was free every 30sec, and it's been replaced with an attack that costs 2400MP to turn into a 520 potency move.
I understand we got buffs to our MP and Darkside's buff is nice, but if you work out the math, we've lost far too much for any of it to be considered a positive net in our DPS as far as potency goes. Scourge comprises over 50% of the loss.
Anyways, show your support for Scourge!
Bring Back Scourge!!!
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06-02-2017, 08:35 AMDWolfwoodBring Back Scourge!!!
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06-02-2017, 09:20 AMTakamorisan
https://www.bluegartr.com/threads/13...engeki-etc.%29
Take your time and read the entire DRK toolkit, scourge is damn pointless. I rather have my new sole survivor excuse me. -
06-02-2017, 09:48 AMFalarLooks unchanged in this video:Quote:
Originally Posted by Takamorisan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ktz...ature=youtu.be -
06-02-2017, 09:56 AMTakamorisanThis is based on a previous build, the famitsu is based in the most recent build of SB.Quote:
Originally Posted by Falar
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06-02-2017, 10:06 AMExiraI've been talking with some people , it's almost confirmed that famitsu Soul survivor is wrong , thats simply how soul survivor already is , that extra things thats looks like trick attack is simple the pvp effect that soul survivor already has in pvp areaQuote:
Originally Posted by Takamorisan
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06-02-2017, 10:24 AMExira1 more thing.. idk who wrote this article but... i main war and what this guy wrote is almost wrong on everything , example he mentions vengance and raw intuition as unchaged - wrong they dont garants +1 stack/10 gauge anymore.. than he says decimate potency nerfed from 300 pot to 280.. lol decimate is alrdy 280 pot rn ... berserk cd extended from 15 s to 20s... again berserk is already 20 secs xDQuote:
Originally Posted by Takamorisan
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06-02-2017, 10:50 AMTakamorisanThe decimate thing even I went to check it. Still 280 :vQuote:
Originally Posted by Exira
As for berserk he meant the base ability without the trait itself, so they are removing the traits and simply incorporating in the skill itself, so the newcomers don't need to wait for the full effect.
As for Raw Intuition and Vengeance
Vengeance: No changes to base effects, no impact on beast gauge
Raw Intuition: No changes to base effect, no impact on beast gauge
They work the same but they don't add anything to the new mechanics, compared to the previous version where it gave 1 stack of wrath -
06-02-2017, 11:03 AMExiraAnother disaster is what he says about butcher's block : combo trigger change maim ---> skull sunder ( What O.O is he drunk ) , combo potency 250 --> 280 and once again butcher is already 280 lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Takamorisan
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06-02-2017, 11:06 AMMarxam
Forget scourge what tanks need is Bloodbath. Really annoyed that we lost it for all tanks. All tanks could have really benefited from having bloodbath, especially with all the aoe/burst QoL changes to tanks. Why would dps need it when they shouldn't be getting hit in the first place outside of raid-wide aoes? and even then we have healers who should be keeping them topped up anyways.
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06-02-2017, 01:57 PMDWolfwood
If the Sole Survivor thing is true, which I doubt, then that would be really interesting. It still would not make up DRK's DPS personal DPS loss, but rather shifted it to the rest of the party.
The problem is, it would probably be either removed quickly, or have the other two tanks buffed considerably because it sounds too strong in a min/max environment, which I think is what they were trying to move away from in the first place. It's not even needed.
Just bring back Scourge, the potency of it is so huge, and it's seriously not difficult to manage. -
06-02-2017, 05:56 PMTint
yeah it's easy to manage and i really like the animation and sound of that attack and 500 potency is much...
but however, i really like that they remove the DoT. it annoys me that EVERY SINGLE CLASS in the game has DoTs. sure, DRK still has salted earth, but it works a little different. i am glad i can now finally play a class without the need to keep a DoT running and can fully concentrate on the combo mechanics. -
06-02-2017, 06:02 PMDWolfwood
They could totally buff other potencies to make up for the loss, I just don't see why they would do that when I'd much rather see Unleash go for instance. Unleash is completely useless now.
I'm still baffled why they would give us a new AoE (though I really like the animation of Quietus) while keeping every old AoE, and nerfing Unleash to the point of uselessness. -
06-02-2017, 06:34 PMEusisLandaleThey did.Quote:
Originally Posted by DWolfwood
30 seconds: 1 Bloodspiller = 380/475, 3 Souleater combos = 2040, HS, SyS = 400
Total: 2820/2915
Now count in the 5% increase compared to now on Darkside: 141/145
Finally pair that Darkside gain up with Bloodspiller, used just once every 30 seconds in Scourge's place.
141 + 380 = 520
145 + 475 = 620
This is already a gain over Scourge without using any additional GCDs. But here's the thing, Bloodspiller can be used more than once every 30 seconds without losing any of its potency due to overwriting and its own potency is higher than any GCD it ends up delaying.
Then you count in Darkside buffing auto attacks, Carve & Spit, Plunge, Dark Passenger, Salted Earth, and every Dark Arts boost you can squeeze in.
We didn't lose Scourge, we got the bulk of it able to be unloaded all at once and the rest of it baked into everything else we do. I wouldn't be too surprised if Bloodspiller and Darkside's buff compensates the loss of Reprisal and Low Blow too.
As for the cost of it, given that The Blackest Night will be the source of the vast majority of our Bloodspillers, every second one can be seen as where Darkside's MP drain has been moved to. The other? It shares a cost with Dark Arts and will push out a part of our combo; A 230/325 Potency Gain over Hard Slash, 130/225 over Syphon Strike, and 100/195 over Souleater. This is, in four out of six possible scenarios a higher MP to Potency conversion than Dark Arts can manage and is applicable to taking up two slots DA never can.
Simply put the loss of Scourge compared to everything we gained is not a loss at all in potency and very rarely even able to be considered a loss in cost efficiency. -
06-02-2017, 09:12 PMShariusTCstop it, it nowhere near useless like you said, it's still an 360 degree GCD AoE, have 50 potency and generate the same enmity as overpower and flash, while flash has no damage, blind is quickly dinimish return and most of high level monster and boss immune to it, it still one of the most important enmity move of pld for yearsQuote:
Originally Posted by DWolfwood
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06-02-2017, 10:54 PMXenosan
could add MP restore to Spinning Slash & put Scourge as an added effect to DA-Power Slash
I guess the DA enmity effect might have to move to in-Grit only though, or be sure to always have Shirk on CD if OTing
PS needs buffing already. Then dropping to just 2 combos, only 1 desired.. I'd like a GCD rotation to even some little extent. they went overboard imo -
06-03-2017, 02:29 AMPinkie_Pie
They need at least keep the animation of it by making delirium do the animation of scourge.
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06-03-2017, 03:00 AMPinkie_Pie
They need at least keep the animation of it by making delirium do the animation of scourge.
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06-03-2017, 03:45 AMDWolfwoodOkay, so I just spent about an hour making a spreadsheet, examining the changes for DRK...Quote:
Originally Posted by EusisLandale
As of now, I retract my previous statements. If they take away our natural MP regeneration while under the effects of Darkside, our net increase seems to be a little positive still. One primary reason is because our Blood Weapon now gives more MP per tick.
I guess /thread. They can keep Scourge. -
06-03-2017, 11:03 AMDWolfwood
Alright, /renewthread
Sorry, but I had some things in the wrong place, and it seems for OT DRK has a tiny buff(less than 1%), but as MT, DRK loses out and is actually nerfed. -
06-03-2017, 03:54 PMSweetgrassYou realize that 5 Blood Price ticks will give DRK a Bloodspiller, right? Blood Price gets extended to 31s under Delirium, Bloodspiller's damage isn't nerfed by Grit, and Blackest Night has a 15s cooldown to constantly be building 50 Blood per use.Quote:
Originally Posted by DWolfwood
DRK has the highest DPS of the MTs, as it's (still) the only tank that scales off of getting hit, from what we can tell. -
06-03-2017, 04:08 PMEusisLandalePaladins gain Oath from blocking, Oath is spent on Shelltron for more Oath and MP. It's an extra step in scaling from incoming attacks, but the faster they can fill up their MP the faster they can Holy Spirit spam.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetgrass
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06-03-2017, 04:17 PMSweetgrassThe problem with this is that it takes 10x blocks in less than a minute = 100 gauge = 2 Sheltrons = 1920 MP, to power ONE extra Holy Spirit outside their Req phase, not counting if the PLD has to stance swap, use Flash, or wants to use Clemency.Quote:
Originally Posted by EusisLandale
DRK gets a Bloodspiller from 5 Blood Price ticks, which are guaranteed and not somewhat random like blocking. A Delirium'd 31 second Blood Price is going to be the equivalent on Inner Release for DRK. -
06-03-2017, 04:36 PMPraesulPvp and pve abilities are completely separate now, there's no reason for the tooltip to clarify pvp effects. There's a similar case with another job, can't think of it at the moment, I'll have to look it up again but they had a similar tooltip that said something only worked in pvp, but when shown at the NA media thing, it functioned with full effect even outside of pvp.Quote:
Originally Posted by Exira
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06-03-2017, 04:40 PMJhett_Magnum
My question is why is Dark Arts Syphon blade a thing?
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06-03-2017, 04:47 PMSweetgrassIt was NIN's Shadow Fang. It applied a Slashing debuff in the Liveletter against PvE mobs, but the tooltip says that the slashing effect only worked in PvP, very mysterious.Quote:
Originally Posted by Praesul
I'm guessing to raise the skill ceiling of DRK, now that Dark Arts is only a 2s CD, more ability to burn extra MP on demand might get used to smooth out MP overflows from Blood Price/other things. The added potency is identical to a DA Souleater or Bloodspiller, anyways.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jhett_Magnum
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06-03-2017, 05:40 PMEusisLandale10 hits. It takes 50 to Bloodspiller, you only get 5 when hit with Blood Price.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweetgrass
That aside, it still doesn't change the fact that Paladins scale from incoming attacks. Never said they scaled as well as a Dark Knight will, only refuted your claim that only Dark Knights do. -
06-04-2017, 03:41 AMRokkuEkkusu
I'll also miss Scourge as Dark Knight.
I believe that Fracture got removed from Warrior as well. -
06-04-2017, 02:29 PMMnemosyniaWe lost scourge it was a nice abilities to have on targets like sophia where theres a lot of movement.Quote:
Originally Posted by EusisLandale
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06-04-2017, 08:52 PMNivarea
What I don't understand is that while DRK and WAR both lose their DoT, PLD kept it. I mean, yes, for PLD Goring Blade is on combo, but then why not make Scourge the replacement of 3.0 Delirium? It would make a third combo back, and makes DRK equals to PLD on the DoT problem. Scourge was our highest potency skill.