SCH 4.0 ability mp costs

why are most of the the sch abilities between 30-50% more mp expensive then the equivalent on ast & whm?
i know this is just in the test state but its still a little concerning

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Originally Posted by Verrin

why are most of the the sch abilities between 30-50% more mp expensive then the equivalent on ast & whm?
i know this is just in the test state but its still a little concerning

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Because now you can take lucid role skill so you can be like all the other healers.

But seriously, that's probably why. With more regen options comes more reason to need them.

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Originally Posted by LegoTechnic

Because now you can take lucid role skill so you can be like all the other healers.

But seriously, that's probably why. With more regen options comes more reason to need them.

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Aetherflow was nerfed to 10%.

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Originally Posted by Hustensaft

Aetherflow was nerfed to 10%.

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It wasn't. It was a theory I had that it would be, but it wasn't...

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Originally Posted by Fernosaur

It wasn't. It was a theory I had that it would be, but it wasn't...

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And what makes you think so?

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Originally Posted by Maltothoris

Correction on the sch aetherflow nerf.

https://www.famitsu.com/news/201705/...4.html?page=12

Sch will get a trait that will be bring back the 20 percent from aetherflow at 68. So for content below you might be running dry but when you get it back, it will even out.

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That's the 20% chance to reduce Aetherflow CD by 10 sec when consuming Aetherflow charges trait - not an increase of the mana to 20%.

That trait is largely useless - it shows it's effect, on avg, after a 9 minute fight. That's pretty much completely useless of a trait.

According to https://youtu.be/qGE10nM_OQ8 Aetherflow remains at 20%.

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Originally Posted by Verrin

why are most of the the sch abilities between 30-50% more mp expensive then the equivalent on ast & whm?
i know this is just in the test state but its still a little concerning

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Erm... probably because SCH has a fairy that heals every 5 seconds at no cost?

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Originally Posted by Hustensaft

And what makes you think so?

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The tooltip in the battle system changes videos state Aetherflow is a 20% MP regain.

I guess the increased MP costs take that + Lucid Dream in mind. It seems silly, though... Everything costs so much more MP for SCH, while AST just laughs as it does literally everything better, lmao.

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Originally Posted by BlueMageQuina

Erm... probably because SCH has a fairy that heals every 5 seconds at no cost?

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yeah... & has no cure 2 & astro gets a 920potency (230heal with 620 shield) insta cast for 1.3k mp

adlo costing 1800mp is hardly fair

I don't like that fact that we have now AoE now, we didn't have much before but now its abysmal. Those Bane changes suck, we wanted the change we got in HW so bad, and were thrilled when it happened, but now, just WHY???? At least give us a Holy/Gravity Skill since now were are just like WHM, casting 2 DoTs then spamming a damage spell... Fun?

I have to say it's quite a bit of BS that Scholars get both Aetherflow and access to Lucid Dream (or whatever it's called).

In raid we're probably not even getting that, preferring to learn how to manage MP.
At least that's what I'll do.
LD being optional shouldn't have had an impact on MP costs honestly. Not when, as pointed out, AST has lower costs, a proper aoe dps skill, will get LD AND has lightspeed, AND can make all those longer with CO.
It sounds like a bad joke.

Aetherflow looks to give 10% mana now, from MrHappy's SCH footage. I kinda hope it's been reverted, regardless of the new trait. I know we have access to more tools, but I'd rather not have to take Lucid Dreaming because they've nerfed Aetherflow.
AST has been buffed to the firmaments, and retains the 20% Balance buff... and as everyone else points out, has lower mana costs. Not to mention a 300% boosted insta-cast shield. With +15% potency. But it's cool 'cause we have a fairy...

We'll be fine with the mp regen they gave us.
Aertherflow nerf was predictible since we get lucid dream aswell.
But we still have energy drain, our aetherflow and the fairy heal are still free mp cost.

So with all of these, our mana will be as good as now.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

We'll be fine with the mp regen they gave us.
Aertherflow nerf was predictible since we get lucid dream aswell.
But we still have energy drain, our aetherflow and the fairy heal are still free mp cost.

So with all of these, our mana will be as good as now.

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Except that like we did before, if we're going to dps a lot, you'll want to use stacks for ED, which means lots of MP but no free heals. AND if we'll need to shield a lot, it still means that every stack will likely go to ED to get MP back.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

We'll be fine with the mp regen they gave us.
Aertherflow nerf was predictible since we get lucid dream aswell.
But we still have energy drain, our aetherflow and the fairy heal are still free mp cost.

So with all of these, our mana will be as good as now.

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Like I said, I don't want to take Lucid Dream to compensate for the reduced MP from Aetherflow. With already needing to take a few skills from the Role system, I don't really want LD to have to be one of them. Yeah, I'm willing to see how well it works in practice, but losing 10% MP from Aetherflow just doesn't fill me with excitement. >Not to mention the icky look of AoE on SCH<

I never really wanted shroud of saints to be honest. It was part of the SCH class design to have Aetherflow, while WHM had their refresh ability. Perhaps it should have triggered a warning when AST came along with a clone ability instead of their own unique regen mechanic.

Regardless plan for LD to be on your bar, because we have it now and there is really no good reason not to take it.

Have you see, lucid dream just reduce aggro buddy

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Originally Posted by SoraWish

Have you see, lucid dream just reduce aggro buddy

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It also grants Refresh w/ 80 potency.

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Originally Posted by SoraWish

Have you see, lucid dream just reduce aggro buddy

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From the tooltip it reduces enmity by half and adds an addition effect: Refresh. Refresh is the mana regen buff that WHM/AST currently have now. LD is just Shroud of Saints/Luminous Aether, just with a new name.

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Originally Posted by Nathair

Except that like we did before, if we're going to dps a lot, you'll want to use stacks for ED, which means lots of MP but no free heals. AND if we'll need to shield a lot, it still means that every stack will likely go to ED to get MP back.

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Well that depends on what we are expecting to do.
If there's no heal to do, those stack will go on ED, if we need to heal, it'll go on thing like Excognition, Indom, lustate or sacred soil.

+ With the new trait we gain, our aetherflow have a chance to have its CD reduced (probably because it's related to the fairy gauge that need the usage of aetherflow stacks to be filled).
So along side with lucid dream, if people want to take that cross skill of course, we shouldn't suffer that much on our mana, except if the damages are heavy and we need to heal a lot, but that would also mean some piety meld.

But if I agree on something, as scholar, we didn't need Lucid dream at the start and AF itself was enough.
But since it's a cross ability now, well, that was predictible that AF would get nerfed.

For the reduced aggro, scholar doesn't really need it since his healing is spread within him and the fairy.


All of this to say, I'm not worried for our mana management.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

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I agree that MP managment will be probably something we'll just have to adjust, and then we'll be probably free of Lucid. Worst case scenario, I see myself dissipating to enrgy drain/heal instead.
As far as cross skills go, I see myself picking it or the heal boost only if there's no need for esuna or surecast. It'll be one of those things you get to fill a slot. But I'm absolutely not going to give up protect/swift/cleric and e4e, so that only leaves one spot to fill depending on the fight.

I do am still salty that SMN gets the pet back after summoning Bahamut, and about our huge aoe nerf.

Dots used to be the cheap casts because they took a while to hit full effect. You could do higher, more expensive damage up front, or more efficient damage over time.

Apparently SE doesn't like that model.

Clever gal. Trying to pretend scholars are nerfed right now to ride the coattails of the white mage pandemic for hopes of avoiding nerfs.

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Originally Posted by Ashua

Clever gal. Trying to pretend scholars are nerfed right now to ride the coattails of the white mage pandemic for hopes of avoiding nerfs.

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when you look closely at the changes SCH is losing alot, i just think upping MP costs on top of that is a little too much

& yes whm is getting hit harder then sch, but both are about to buckle under the weight of the upcoming double AST meta

White mage is in dire straights but scholar is still as strong as ever. That focus beam heal from the fairy puts scholar in near god mode for what was the weakest link of the job which was single target heals. You still forget the strength of an independent off the global cooldown heal coming from the scholar along side the new time release heal and strong stratagem that bumps up crit puts the synergy of the scholar to sync well with all comps. It still has a raid spot along side of astro and wont be discarded so easily. All this hoopla because they raised the absorb % of noc stance of astro.

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Originally Posted by Ashua

White mage is in dire straights but scholar is still as strong as ever. That focus beam heal from the fairy puts scholar in near god mode for what was the weakest link of the job which was single target heals. You still forget the strength of an independent off the global cooldown heal coming from the scholar along side the new time release heal and strong stratagem that bumps up crit puts the synergy of the scholar to sync well with all comps. It still has a raid spot along side of astro and wont be discarded so easily.

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SCH has always been very strong at single-target healing; I'm not sure why you're suggesting that this was actually the Job's weak point.

Chain Strategem alone pretty much guarantees SCH's raid spot, but otherwise there doesn't appear to be a lot of fun things to look forward to. We'd all probably be discussing the potentially blah state of SCH more if we weren't collectively pacing the emergency room lobby while WHM appears to be on life support.

No one said Scholar got nerfed and became weak.
No.

We indeed got nerfed, through our aoe damages and a little through aetherflow mp restoration (but since we can have lucid dreams), and the lose of virus that was part of the mitgation toolkit (but it's for all healers).
So yes, there was a nerf,we can't deny true changes made BUT...
Scholar will stll be as good as he was, even more with his new skills, at least for healing.

It's essentially the aoe damages.
Fairies got embrace potency 300 to 250, whispering dawn 100 to 50 yes...but since we now have the tether, it's logical to nerf those.

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Originally Posted by KDSilver

It's essentially the aoe damages.
Fairies got embrace potency 300 to 250, whispering dawn 100 to 50 yes...but since we now have the tether, it's logical to nerf those.

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To be fair WD is still 100. The hit to embrace will be felt tho, specially since we lost the enhanced pet actions trait.

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Originally Posted by Nathair

To be fair WD is still 100. The hit to embrace will be felt tho, specially since we lost the enhanced pet actions trait.

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Shifting around the heals to a channeled target might or might not be an overall Nerf to fairy. And no scholar did not get a Nerf in the aoe because the paradigm of 4.0 is to overall curb speed runs since all jobs as far as I know have their aoe gutted. Stance dance changes and freeing up the gcd makes up for it.

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Originally Posted by Ashua

And no scholar did not get a Nerf in the aoe because the paradigm of 4.0 is to overall curb speed runs since all jobs as far as I know have their aoe gutted.

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SCH took a huge hit with the Bane nerf. And not all AoE was gutted. WHM Aero III, Holy, and Assize are all fine (with the healer damage scaling off mind giving Assize a large buff). AST Gravity remains untouched and Earthly Star looks to be a solid answer for AST to WHM's Assize. When you realize that Bane is really a double nerf since SCH loses not only potency (at a higher rate than Holy/ Gravity) but also DoTs to spread, you really can't say their AoE is fine or as strong as it was, especially since SCH still has no AoE beyond spreading their DoTs with Bane.

Not only is bane the only ability now that lowers by 20% per mob hit (gravity/holy 10% per and assize/star no reduction), compiled with the loss of full uptime shadow flare, miasma 2, and blizzard 2, scholar basically has no aoe to speak of now. To put it into perspective one single tick of aero 3 is more potent than our two dots both ticking on the third enemy and beyond and that's not even counting the spammable fillers both other jobs currently have.

Scholar maybe should lose its aoe strength. Let that be a strong point of the white mage and the white mage is limited on mama as its damage potential limit. Bane is a almost fire and forget aoe every 20 ish seconds.

I don't get why if every healer was viable in their eyes that they made all of these unnecessary chanfes at all. Plus, when we had DoTs and a filler spell the lower potency made sense, but with no AoE to speak of and a "filler" spell still as low, just why?

If it were just a white mage strength that would be one thing, however astro can aoe balance/arrow to buff group damage and/or gravity spam and are getting their own version of assize, its really only scholar that cannot aoe effectively now. Set it and forget it dots are fine and all but plugging away at one single enemy thereafter on top of the dots being 20% potent along with only two measly dots getting spread at that potency to a decent sized group of trash is just bad.

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Originally Posted by Ashua

Scholar maybe should lose its aoe strength. Let that be a strong point of the white mage and the white mage is limited on mama as its damage potential limit. Bane is a almost fire and forget aoe every 20 ish seconds.

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SCH AoE strength was already lower than the other healers though. Aero III will do more damage than bane. A one button push and forget DoT is better than something that takes 2 GCDs and a aetherflow stack. WHM also has holy and assize along with that aero iii, and SCH has nothing other than shadowflare on 60 second cooldown. SCH AOE will be so bad that people will tell SCHs in dungeons they should stop queueing as SCH and wasting people's time and goes as SMN.

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Originally Posted by Ariane

SCH AoE strength was already lower than the other healers though. Aero III will do more damage than bane. A one button push and forget DoT is better than something that takes 2 GCDs and a aetherflow stack. WHM also has holy and assize along with that aero iii, and SCH has nothing other than shadowflare on 60 second cooldown. SCH AOE will be so bad that people will tell SCHs in dungeons they should stop queueing as SCH and wasting people's time and goes as SMN.

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So? Why should scholars have aoe on par with the other healers. Let white mages have a off cooldown auto healing elemental following it around then we can talk. Scholars will be fine and even more then fine.

Scholar fairy will hardly be noticed now that theres no stance dancing anymore. Both other classes are more than capable of hitting a regen and then going to town with aoe or single target damage and even surpassing scholar in terms of said damage even though you lose one gcd every 21 seconds. Enough complaining about the stupid fairy its a regen, and an unreliable one at that due to how its coded to auto fire embrace server side at the lowest hp target starting at 80% hp. You can manually cast it sure but it will auto fire before it receives your command regardless thus making your command worthless. Regen does not suffer from this drawback and scholar has higher mp costs on all of its spells across the board to make up for the fairy being free so please don't bring that up as an argument either.

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

SCH has always been very strong at single-target healing; I'm not sure why you're suggesting that this was actually the Job's weak point.

Chain Strategem alone pretty much guarantees SCH's raid spot, but otherwise there doesn't appear to be a lot of fun things to look forward to. We'd all probably be discussing the potentially blah state of SCH more if we weren't collectively pacing the emergency room lobby while WHM appears to be on life support.

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I thought it was said that stratagem didn't work like litany and that makes it hot garbage, additive vs multiplicative. Where litany would add 15% to your crit rate while stratagem would simply multiply it by 1.2.