Ok. i'm not sure what it is with people. You've got people who refuse to dps to the extreme and now aparantly you have people who refuse to heal to the extreme! I mean I'm a sch if a healer ever had a rotation it would be put some dots on or use stone then top your team off. Not leave them half dead the entire run!
How hard is it to dps AND heal? you don't have to do one over the other save for the instance of either high damage instances or a poor party.
The other extreme
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05-28-2017, 06:28 AMTransient_ShadowThe other extreme
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05-28-2017, 06:53 AMRawrz
Why top someone off when everyone has a natural regen. Heal on a non active battle time? of course! When active though, if the dps arent going to be in danger, theres no need to heal them. Understanding rate of damage is half of a healers role. Might as well sit my controller down and tie my shoes in a dungeon. Equally as relevant as topping off someone who wasnt in danger of dying.
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05-28-2017, 09:55 AMSylvainWhile this is not a practice I actively do, I think you're right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rawrz
But I would be cautious with such practice, as you pointed, if you know absolutely Nothing is going to happen, in fact, why waste your time healing when you could help finish the boss.
On the other hand, if someone die because of that, even if is technically their fault for failing a mechanic, the little dps you will have pulled over the 2.5sec it would have taken to top the dps is not worth it.
I think of the "do not move" mechanic from the spider boss in Baelsar Wall or the big cleave from Griffin. If one dps dies because I choose to do 1-2 more MaleficII instead of topping them right away, while it's technically their fault, I'm also to blame as my choice will result in his death and less overall group dps.
Of course, this is considering pug situation with people you don't know.
At the contrario, when my friend tanks he informs me if he's gonna pop invincibility or if he'll ever need any heal. Knowing that, I'll spam gravity to get faster.
I'll be much more conservative and careful with a pug tank that doesn't talk.
But fundamentaly, Rawrz is right. If there's better window to heal people and they're safe even at low health, you might as well use those Windows (for instance, Bismark shell, technically no one should die while we are all dpsing, everyone falls very low though, but there's no need for heal at this moment) -
05-28-2017, 10:29 AMCynfaelThis I can agree with completely. The failure of some players to understand the interplay of healing and DPS actions contributes to a lot of the drama on healer forums.Quote:
Originally Posted by Transient_Shadow
As for underhealing, like Rawrz says, there are times where you literally don't need to heal the wounded, but it if you're talking about healers who are flat out negligent, that's a different story. Sometimes I see this from players who seem to be healing 100% on reaction and react slowly. -
05-28-2017, 10:33 AMThunda_Cat_SMASHBut then I can't tease and joke with people anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Transient_Shadow
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05-28-2017, 10:35 PMGemina
I see this as a matter of players need to trust their healers and let them do what they do. A knowledgeable healer is always assessing how quickly the damage is coming and adjusts their threshold for healing accordingly. If the healer feels there is no immediate risk of a KO, then the DPS window remains open. Over-healing may not necessarily be a sign of a bad healer; it actually can be more indicative that your healer doesn't trust their group.
My rule of thumb for DPS players is that they have enough health to survive a hit. They have lower HP pools than the tank, so single cures restore a greater percentage of their health, and it actually irks me a little bit if I actually have to use a cure spell on a DPS player outside of scripted damage they take. Regens and fairy should be enough to keep them up.
Tanks are a different story. The over-geared ones have such ridiculous health pools, and take so little damage that keeping them at 40-50% really isn't much different than keeping them at 90-95%. This changes obviously depending on how well the tank is geared and content played. Sub par tanks need constant healing, and a healer doing their job will remain out of Cleric to do so. -
05-29-2017, 08:19 AMwinsock
The goal of healing is to keep people above 0 hp, not at 100% hp. Dont worry about it unless people are dieing.
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05-29-2017, 09:07 AMZojhaOr as someone else once put it: The only health point that matters is the last.Quote:
Originally Posted by winsock
Bosses like to teach you that fact when they wipe the group in what seems to be their death throes at 1%. You tried so hard, you got so far, but... y'know. -
05-29-2017, 05:58 PMLukhaHalf dead is still not dead. If you have even 1 hp left, I am doing my job as healer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Transient_Shadow
Not that I've ever purposely let a tank's HP drop as low as possible before saving them just to scare them or anything; that would be mean. Even if some tanks really need to be reminded who's the boss. -
05-29-2017, 07:02 PMSylvainHaha! This is so true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gemina
I recall one day a mate being like "It's fun to do dungeon with you, I always have a shield and Stoneskin on"
I was like "yeah, don't worry I got ya!". But the Truth was that he was so bad at dodging that I had to keep shield + stoneskin. *cought* BLM *cough* -
05-29-2017, 07:28 PMKitfoxBLMs do not move. Healers adjust!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvain
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05-29-2017, 08:49 PMSpiroglyph
I need some context for this, tbh.
Did anyone ACTUALLY die? Did a wipe occur?
I'm gonna be honest with you, if we're talking stuff like exper roulette and everyone is at half HP when a pack of mobs is about to be finished off, I'm likely to only top off the tank and toss him a shield and ignore the rest of the team, as fairy and natural regen outside combat is gonna put them back to 100% HP in like, no time at all. This is usually what I do and it usually goes well :/ However if you're in the middle of a boss fight, someone is dangerously low and yo KNOW they're about to take a punch to face and STILL don't toss them a heal, then yeah, please get your priorities straight lmao -
05-29-2017, 08:50 PMSpiroglyphBLMs are the one job I can accept standing in stuff tbhQuote:
Originally Posted by Kitfox
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05-30-2017, 01:18 AMGeminaOhh I hope I don't lose my precious stoneskin! It was always entertaining for me to see which DPS player can keep there's up the longest. Some would literally keep it up until scripted damage strips it from them. Others would drop immediately into the first pull, and I'm like "really?!" Ugh, I am such a stereotypical WHM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylvain
I also don't ever tell any player, friend or otherwise, "I got you". This my friend, is a death sentence if it comes from me ;)- -
05-30-2017, 09:55 PMMeui
There is a such thing as overconfidence, too. Plenty of cases where not healing is okay, plenty more where it's not okay. I've met way too many healers who don't understand that and refuse to patch anyone up when they probably should. I'm talking unavoidable incoming damage or when I accidentally take hate from the tank, get beaten on for a while, and never get a heal. (Before anyone starts on the aggro thing, I main MNK.)
But that's okay, at least they got that extra stone or whatnot in. Admittedly as a MNK I come with some self-healing and most of that's used very often, as needed. But those have CDs and some jobs don't even have them to begin with. -
05-30-2017, 11:24 PMBonbalon_Burcaso
as a SCH/AST, I find it depends on the situation. If I know I'm running with a REALLY bad tank, I may not even bother to try and dps at all because I know within the 5 seconds it takes to get Cleric Stance to deactivate, this tank could either be dead of dropping too quickly to save.
These tanks also tend to overpull and not bother to use any defensive CD's.
On the other hand, if I have a solid tank, I find dropping Cleric to throw the occasional AOE to top off the dps and toss a shield on the tank, then go back to DPSing works great.
At any rate it's all about knowing your class and what it can do, or more specifically, what YOU can do given your gear and abilities. -
05-30-2017, 11:38 PMjavid
[QUOTE=Bonbalon_Burcaso;4165084snip[/QUOTE]
absolutely not!!! If i'm running with a tank that is unfamiliar with proper cd rotations or inc dmg I do not baby them with overheals... I let them die or almost die until they notice there is an issue...then if the pop off about "i'm not getting healed..."; that's when I pop open the logs and show them the math. I don't facilitate poor play. -
05-31-2017, 06:09 AMRopeDrink
Sorry OP but if you're on 50% HP and I know what's coming up (and that it won't even remotely kill you), I'll be continuing DPS. The problem at the moment lays with people who have that over-panic playstyle where they don't even try to anticipate anything and resort to sitting around healing full HP bars or AFK'ing when people are at max already. I'll top people off if I'm aware of upcoming damage or I notice some pleb-DPS likes to eat mechanics for lunch, otherwise I'll gauge everyone and use that to suss out how much healing you 'actually' need vs how much damage I can contribute inbetween. It is when people start dying or get dangerously close to it that you should be wondering why things are going tits up - and it's not always on the healer. Given I play all three roles pretty regularly, I can count any number of times that overconfident tanks don't even wait before overpulling and expecting the Healer to burn everything while they use zero CD's, all the while the DPS flail around not knowing a simple rotation. Failing that, as a tank, it's usually me having to make up the DPS because of above mentioned AFK healers or poor DPS.
TLDR - It's all in the synergy, which is hard to come by in DF when you have players that don't think about the team-picture. If DPS is 'DPS'ing', tanks held emnity and nobody died, chances are the average person thinks this is basically a 'job well done' when, in fact, it's just a job getting done. -
05-31-2017, 06:10 PMFernosaurSometimes I even encourage it, tbh. A good example is the second boss of Gubal HM, which does the Eruption-like AoEs that chase you down like four times. If I have a caster in the party I'll either give them a buffed Regen or Adlo them+ cast Whispering Dawn to keep them from moving. Always gotta guess if they'll take the chance or not, tho.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiroglyph