Is anyone else more confused than ever, did SE mask bad changes with good ones.

I feel so confused as I play all roles in the game and plan to level all 15 jobs to 70. Im excited about rdm, and maybe even testing out sam as well. But I think Im confused on whether this cross role system is a good thing are not. Did they mask how bad the cross role system is behind giving bards and mch mobility essentially giving healers damage without cleric stance.

Its a few things here warrior for instance Im very curious to know and would love to see if someone has a screen shot of their hot bar. Is warrior losing alot of its mitigation, melees have bloodbath now, is maim berserk bloodbath no longer gona be a thing? With the wrath change do they also lose with inner beast changing does that mean we lose that self heal as well with these changes alone it seems it wiill make warrior more dependent than every on healers to prioritize them and lose alot of self healing. Is every job getting only one buff it seems to be the case, and casters dont even seem to get one at all nor quelling strikes either.

Like are players that play everything being punished I mean maybe thats a bad word choice. But Im tryin to figure out how the cross role system is benefiting anyone, the more I think about it I just dont think I like it very much. And what about button blot which I thought was the main issue here Yosi P hot bar looked like it had just as many buttons on it if not more. Im just confused on whether to be happy or not its some good fixing on hw mistakes but are they making new ones now already? And if anyone knows didnt we get more information before hw, I remember seeing videos posted of every jobs abilities with names but I wasn't here so just a question?

As far as the warrior goes you left out their new sub stat which could go along way to alleviating the loss of blood bath. Tenacity not only increase damage, but lower the amount taken.

The role system is essentially the cross class system with a different name. All they did was to decide to make certain actions available for the role at different levels instead of having to level other classes you might not be interested in playing. Sure the skills for some have changed that are cross classable but no biggie there we will adapt.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

And if anyone knows didnt we get more information before hw, I remember seeing videos posted of every jobs abilities with names but I wasn't here so just a question?

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The video was the same thing last time. Just an unlabeled montage of abilities.

I think we actually got more information this time around...since there is the job HUD in the video, and they played a bunch of different jobs during the live letter. All I seem to recall from HW was that they showed off the new BLM rotation on the dummy.

Didn't know what everything did until the expansion launched and people got to play it.

I definitely feel like after taking away accuracy, they wanted to add another layer of complexity (if you want to call it that) or decision making that didn't rely specifically on gearing around a certain stat. I think the new system looks neat, and swapping out certain skills for others depending on the battle is very much a page from FFXI in the sense that certain jobs were needed only for a portion of certain battles because of a specific skill they had access to.

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Originally Posted by Feidam

As far as the warrior goes you left out their new sub stat which could go along way to alleviating the loss of blood bath. Tenacity not only increase damage, but lower the amount taken.

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That's an excellent point, while Tanks may have less healing utility/dmg mitigation AKA Paladin most likely lost Stoneskin as well, it should balance itself out with the new secondary stats.

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Originally Posted by Feidam

As far as the warrior goes you left out their new sub stat which could go along way to alleviating the loss of blood bath. Tenacity not only increase damage, but lower the amount taken.

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but isnt that samething all tanks are getting tho, so I dont see how this would benefit just warrior alone, and also its not an ability , warrior is the best self healing tank I dont see why they would just change it for no reason at all

It for sure seems better than the cross skill system we have now. I have all the jobs and I don't see what kind of disadvantage it gives to us, actually it makes a job full playable without the need of levelling another one to get a skill you should need

For Yoshi hotbar you should heck it better: many icons were trash like macros, items and double skills. If you check it again you'll notice that there's only one type of skills with evolutions (like Thunder > Thunder 3, Blizzard > Blizzard 3, Stone > Stone 2 > Stone 3 ecc) it's a lot more space.

You can not make that determination at the moment though. We do not know what their new skills are or if any traits have changed. Further more yes all tanks get tenacity but that does not preclude tenacity's effectiveness doesn't make up for the lose of bloodbath with it's health pool. That healing could also have been shifted to another skill. We just don't know yet.

Since all damage both player and npcs are getting rebalanced we really don't know. And remember the live letter said somethings are subject to change and not the final product. Like protect may get taken off the list and be learned at like lvl 5

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Originally Posted by Greven

It for sure seems better than the cross skill system we have now. I have all the jobs and I don't see what kind of disadvantage it gives to us, actually it makes a job full playable without the need of levelling another one to get a skill you should need

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It takes away uniqueness unless they give , each job their own animations, shadow skin had an amazing animation , low blow something that was unique to drk alone is just something everyone can have now, so I dont see how its better are benefiting anyone who already had their skills already. Couldn't they have just simply given jobs those abilities for those whom wanted to only play one role and just done away with the whole shared abilities in general. Perfect example was that for healers whm basicly had every single skill in the cross role system now but now its just in a shared role system like what is the point in that really.

Im still tryin to figure this one out this seems to only benefit new players and I thought that was what jump potions and stuff was for. Cross role now a healer can actually chose whether they want a status debuff or not I promise you that some healers wont even take it so how does this benefit anyone at all. They made great changes, wm gone , acc gone, parry gone, healers dpsing from mind but this cross role system just isnt sittin well with me especially if its taking some good skills away.

Personally, I'm not happy that drk is losing low blow and reprisal, but im more happy about the fact that now I don't have to level other classes just to be optimal. I had a problem with the cross class system since the day I started this game. If I wanna play ninja, I shouldn't be forced to level dragoon to 34 for B4B. MCH are expected to have all the BRD skills and tanks better have pally to 22 no questions asked. To me, it was a load of crap that forced me to stop what I was doing to level a class I'm not interested in, thus wasting my time because I'm not having fun. Cross role abilities seem like a much easier access point and can keep players doing what they want to do for longer periods of time.

ill be honest im pretty happy with all the changes coming in storm blood

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Originally Posted by whiteblade89

Personally, I'm not happy that drk is losing low blow and reprisal, but im more happy about the fact that now I don't have to level other classes just to be optimal. I had a problem with the cross class system since the day I started this game. If I wanna play ninja, I shouldn't be forced to level dragoon to 34 for B4B. MCH are expected to have all the BRD skills and tanks better have pally to 22 no questions asked. To me, it was a load of crap that forced me to stop what I was doing to level a class I'm not interested in, thus wasting my time because I'm not having fun. Cross role abilities seem like a much easier access point and can keep players doing what they want to do for longer periods of time.

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instead of a role system they could of just simply given each job cross class skills as their own I dont really see the point in a role system at all

Personally I'm looking forward to the changes. People may complain less and besides,we can't really mock it until we try it. Maybe it will be good...maybe it will be bad...lets give it a chance and if it it's bad, SE will fix it. You have to admit compare to other companies SE is pretty decent on hearing out people. With the exception of email responses that is....5 days really? SE store 30 Days? and phone number on packing slip is useless...

I see it as a clean up, it simplifies things especially I for those that play multiple jobs.

For the animations I'm pretty sure they will be the aame for everyone, in the trailer the DRG does a "LowBlow".

Other than that it's not like jobs are only losing animations, they have new skills too which are individual.

Let's take DRK as an example: Reprisal is now shared and probably tweaked but gains that Atroh/Sacrifice-looking and Climhazzard-looking skills. Shadowall animation is used for that new protective skill so Shadowskin animation might be the new Shadowall..

What I mean is: those skill where the same in the first place, it makes everything cleaner now but on the other side every job is getting their on share of new individual skills

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

Couldn't they have just simply given jobs those abilities for those whom wanted to only play one role and just done away with the whole shared abilities in general.

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yes, they could have but it's not simple. and they want to still give players the illusion of choice.

and yes, there's probably an overall nerf to Warrior with the changes. every raid group being DRK+WAR or PLD+WAR was a problem. maybe with these changes PLD+DRK will also be viable.

you don't know all the details, so of course you're going to be confused if you try to make sense of everything when it's actually impossible to.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

yes, they could have but it's not simple. and they want to still give players the illusion of choice.
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I think now they made it possible for drk, pali, if they have a samurai because now they also have the slashing debuff. But of course warrior is still gona be in the picture but they kinda boasted it but kinda nerfed it at the same time.

I'm optimistic. The changes really look like they are gonna shake things up but I have enough faith in the company that it will be for the better. I am stoked for the removal of cast times on the Range DPS as I think that it'll make it funner, more user friendly, and stick with the range dps idea instead of the casting thing.

I have never played Warrior before so I have no clue about these changes but it looks like they are practically revamping it.


I am a bit concerned that now all the "Cross-Class" skills will be taken up by moves the job should already have. For me as a Healer main I'm thinking Esuna.

I'm looking forward to the changes though and I'm gonna be opened minded about it.

Can't wait to barrage my enemies with spells with Red MAge :3

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

instead of a role system they could of just simply given each job cross class skills as their own I dont really see the point in a role system at all

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That would have led to all of these abilties always being available, which doesn't seem to be their goal.


We'll make a choice, however small, or tied to our niche in a group (Main tank vs Off tank for example).


Role system means that we know the base utility that any class will bring - Tank, Healer, Melee DPS, Ranged DPS and Caster will have guaranteed skills that mesh with their personal flavour skills. This means that a new tank in 5.0 or whatever, will have the same baseline as DRK, PLD or WAR. For example, Shadowskin and Rampart are functionally identical currently, to create one skill out of them means that if I switch between the two, the icon will represent an identical outcome when I push it.

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Originally Posted by TristanBlane

I'm optimistic. The changes really look like they are gonna shake things up but I have enough faith in the company that it will be for the better. I am stoked for the removal of cast times on the Range DPS as I think that it'll make it funner, more user friendly, and stick with the range dps idea instead of the casting thing.

I have never played Warrior before so I have no clue about these changes but it looks like they are practically revamping it.


I am a bit concerned that now all the "Cross-Class" skills will be taken up by moves the job should already have. For me as a Healer main I'm thinking Esuna.

I'm looking forward to the changes though and I'm gonna be opened minded about it.

Can't wait to barrage my enemies with spells with Red MAge :3

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Cross class skills are no more. Role skills are the skills the classes need to supplement/complete their role. Totally different way at looking at the pool of abilities.

The problem I have with this is the amount of skill slots for those skills...For a white mage, they basically get dropped from five extra skills (though...honestly...only four are in any way, shape or form useful...and I don't count Physicks or Ruin), to two?! Because every healing-oriented white mage will take protect, divine seal and esuna. The fact that esuna is there makes every healer get down an extra skill...If these skills can be easily changed mid-run...well, protect would then be replaced with something else if needed, but the rest are stuck there.

There are two problems with the current system. The fact that people have to level classes they don't care for to get the skills, and the fact that the choice is just an illusion. As much as this change will solve the first problem, and good for that, it is prone to actually emphasize the second problem.

The bonus skills should be unnecessary to begin with, with an actual choice of few to pick from that give a new utility the role does not generally need. At that point, all of the skills would be optional, thus giving a real choice. By putting there skills that are NOT attached to the role normally...so the exact opposite of how it'll end up as.
At least, that's my opinion. Still, I do realize that in practice this system may look a lot better than in theory, so I wouldn't panic over it (too much) yet.

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Originally Posted by kikix12

The problem I have with this is the amount of skill slots for those skills...For a white mage, they basically get dropped from five extra skills (though...honestly...only four are in any way, shape or form useful...and I don't count Physicks or Ruin), to two?! Because every healing-oriented white mage will take protect, divine seal and esuna. The fact that

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I just dont like the fact that they have to take things to give things in a sense. They could of simply just taken all they cross class abilities unlocked them for everyjob without having to level them , and there you have it you pic the ones you want.

But mixing and stealing job identity isn't cool, Im upset about bloodbath now, but I will be very angry if divine seal really is a cross role skill. It would of been alot easier to for instance ok to use paladin for example if you dont wana level up warrior, or conj fine here are all of their abilities you can have them without leveling them pick five.
Instead of taking lowblow thats drk, instead of giving reappraisal to all tanks, instead of all melee havin the ninja ability. I just dont really understand why they went this cross role route they could of just unlocked cross class without leveling the actual class and jobs would be more unique like they are now.

Why do people cry about Divine Seal, if they don't know how strong it will be (maybe only 10%?), how much healing is needed in specific contents and how new abilitites affect healing prowness.
Without further explanation I call Divine Seal (or whatever it is now) as optional as CS, both propably not mandatory to complete fights.

And why do I need 'Shroud', if I have a BLM sacrificing one mp tick for mana-goading me. If that's less dpsloss for him than me gaining dps+ from CS over the fight I don't see the point why it should be mandatory.

Emnity? We don't know if emnity generation is changed, if it's on the same ability like before (SoS, LA), etc.


Getting stronger is a thing, too. I might need DIvine Seal for some contents at a certain ilvl. Do I still 'need' it the same way 15 or 20 ilvl later?
Currently DS isn't as mandatory for the healing power anyway, it's nlt like 'Oh shit, DS on CD, I won't be able to heal that."
It's more like 'Oh nice, stronger regen to stay longer in cleric.'

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Originally Posted by kikix12

There are two problems with the current system. The fact that people have to level classes they don't care for to get the skills, and the fact that the choice is just an illusion. As much as this change will solve the first problem, and good for that, it is prone to actually emphasize the second problem.

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I somewhat disagree as now there seems to be a reason to alter your cross-role skills. For example, I set the same 5 skills as my WAR cross class skills sometime in 2013 and I have altered them maybe twice since then. With the new system, it seems that it may change based upon your party composition. If I'm MT I may want to take reprisal; however, my next 8 man run I may be OT in which reprisal isn't going to do as much for me so I would switch to Shirk. Running dungeons? Ultimatum instead of provoke (depends how ultimatum works of course). For healers, you wouldn't want more than 1 healer with protect. If you're the only melee and there is no BRD/MCH, you may want to consider switching a skill to Goad.

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Originally Posted by Dement

I somewhat disagree as now there seems to be a reason to alter your cross-role skills. For example, I set the same 5 skills as my WAR cross class skills sometime in 2013 and I have altered them maybe twice since then.

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For me its not so much the cross roll its the skill you lose because they made cross role , for instance on warrior in this cross role system you lose, ir, bloodbath, and second wind. On casters use lose quelling, and raging. melee dps have one buff now instead of two. All Im sayin is the good things like wm being different , and cleric changing etc may have people happpy. But we lost alot of uniqueness in jobs as well as alot of skills we could of had if they just automatically opened up cross class instead of these subtle nerfs. Warrior is no longer the self healing tank that would be pali now because clemency doesnt have a cool down like now warriors best heal equilibrium

In old ARR you were already "punished" if we want to call it that, for playing multiple jobs, because you can't be good at all of them. The question remains and should be rephrased to, am I playing end game content, and if I do, at what level do I play it - Entry/First/competitive etc.

After that question has been answered, the next one would be, how are my jobs geared - simple/just tomes/mix and match of raid & tome/crafted/full raid etc. Do I have all my characters geared in the absolute bis that's available under my best knowledge without sacrificing specific gear aspect and skill points.

The list would go on, but here's my point of view, if you're playing more then one job, you're not playing any of them at their full capacity as of right now. With SB you won't have to worry no more, because since the system has been made much easier (as it at least looks like) and the prior mandatory requirements are kinda removed, making it easier for new as well as veterans, that do not have the time/patience/skill to enjoy any aspect of the game, without having to feel uncomfortable for being geared badly and maybe not having cleared some content by itself.

It's a good business model if we look at this from that aspect, but I doubt it's a bad change, now we finally can have everybody new/old/skilled/unskilled on the same page. It was very frustrating, especially since last summer's trend hit the servers, and out of 10 people 7 wouldn't have a job stone, 6 wouldn't have cross class skills nor did even know about it since it's not explained much in the game itself, or at least not in depth.

Putting some of the skills in the overall box and be accessible by all healers/tanks/ranged and casters is something I don't see as a bad choice but I personally do think it wasn't necessary, because if some of the actions stay as they are right now, they are rather pointless for specific jobs, and that puts us back at the start, were you have 8 actions and while you can chose let's say 5, you would only pick 3 because everything else was and still is pointless.

Example, as it stands right now(ARR/HW) you could cross class feather foot, who in their right mind would do that? I mean sure you could do it for the laughs or because you still have 2 slots free anyways, but point is, if something else would have been available, let's say goad (SB), pretty sure that this would be chosen much more because it's overall better and not a wasted slot.

However I do think, we will have to wait and look at the live version of the game, before we are getting all upset about things that might turn up good or bad, nobody would know right now, since some of these role actions weren't adjusted correctly during the live stream etc. We might make it a bigger deal then it actually is, or we are not making it big enough. Time will tell.

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Originally Posted by Airget

That's an excellent point, while Tanks may have less healing utility/dmg mitigation AKA Paladin most likely lost Stoneskin as well, it should balance itself out with the new secondary stats.

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While this is probably correct, it will sadden me. Stoneskin did a lot to solidify PLD's role as a support tank - time and again, I've saved weakened party members from high-damage attacks by shielding them with Stoneskin while the healers were too busy with other tasks to spare the time.

Unfortunately, damage trumps all, and future changes to PLD will likely emphasize bringing it in line with WAR and DRK in terms of damage dealing capability, at the expense of support capability. I can't even mad about it - it's perfectly logical. The structure of this game by design limits the value of both offensive and defensive support that isn't directly related to increases in DPS; PLD's emphasis on defense and support over damage was doomed to fail eventually.

Still saddening, though. :(

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Originally Posted by LunaFaye

In old ARR you were already

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I simply disagree with this I know many players that can play any job at a high level. Playing all three tanks is enterchangble, so are all three heals. And with dps it's as simple as finding a rotation on YouTube and mastering it. What u just said pretty much just means those lazy people who couldn't take a few hours to level a job to thirty got it good. Like one to thirtish takes no time and little effort. This role system wasn't needed to accommodate players, they could of just unlocked the cross class abilities and let people pick. Now we might have healers running around with no cleanse. And many jobs have lost some amazing skills.

Was there anything to be confused about? I thought everything was pretty well presented. Bearing in mind that they cannot show every single thing. It will spoiled SB

Nope. I think this change was nice because now you can actually pick different actions depending on the encounter. It gives us some choice. We don't have to use the same five actions for the next two years. We don't know all the changes. Some actions may have been combine with others. We just don't know. Yes some classes may have lost some skills but you don't know that. They can have traits that change these cross roll skills. The classes look even more unique to me. Each class had their own system they need to manage. I can wait to see how this plays out before complaining. We already know they will adjust things as needed. Nothing is set in stone. This change was needed.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

On casters use lose quelling, and raging. melee dps have one buff now instead of two ... But we lost alot of uniqueness in jobs as well as alot of skills we could of had if they just automatically opened up cross class instead of these subtle nerfs.

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most jobs not having Raging Strikes is a lost of uniqueness? Casters losing Quelling and Raging makes Archer more unique doesn't it?

some of the "nerfs" are also for skill bloat.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

eh.. yea

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We might have a different definition of high level then. I wish it would be as easy as looking up a dps rotation or well even any rotation on youtube, jump into the next available raid and just clear it without any problems on multiple classes, each of them parsing around the same number and took the same effort then the actual main class, wake me when that's happening lol.

Every job plays differently, just because you main a warrior as example, and you're extreme good at it, doesn't mean you'll be the best dark knight. In fact you might end up running into that fight, dying to specific encounters, laughing it off with your friends on voip but asking yourself, seriously why did I die here? And the answer is simple, because a mechanic that took barely effort on a warrior, simply one shotted the drk or even pld because they didn't make the necessary preparations, since it wasn't even a thought that came to their mind or simply forgot.

It's not enough to just know the dungeon/raid/trial you're running into, it's very important to know your jobs and skills in and out. If I wake you at night and ask you a drg question, you should have the correct answer without having to think about that. That is the kind of effort I am talking about and that can't be accomplished when playing all jobs at the same time. Regardless of some jobs being interchangeable or look at the first glance the same, or are having the same role set in the game.

I've never said let's support the lazy but you guys need to get off this "lazy" people horse and find something that makes a bit more sense, but I am not going to repeat myself.

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Originally Posted by Neophyte

Why do people cry about Divine Seal, if they don't know how strong it will be (maybe only 10%?), how much healing is needed in specific contents and how new abilitites affect healing prowness.

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For the same reason we white mages would be pissed if suddenly Holy, Benediction, Regen, Assize, or Tetra became cross-class. It is a Job ability. We get it from our Job quests.

I'm not going to take a stance on anything in regards to warrior till I actually play it in 4.0... The only thing that annoys me and I feel like commenting about is the dumb 3 uppercut animation/combo that totally does not fit a warrior at all. I could have settled for an enraged face punch or headbut but that animation just looks way out of place. I hope I'm not the only warrior that thinks so.

I think it's always going to be a case of swings and roundabouts. What you gain on the swing you lose on the roundabout. Basically properly balanced jobs will always be a form of compromise, so some changes we will like and some we will not.

The fact that we can find things we like and dislike with the changes suggests to me that they struck a balance.

That said, I love the new actions for PLD, so I can't complain - especially with Wanderers Minuet changing to something easier to manage and the more streamlined nature of some of the multi-tier spells.

Since it also represents change to everything we currently know about playing, there will be a learning curve for us all. Not sure that's a bad thing as well since it will force us all to re-learn and perhaps learn things we forgot.

Lastly, if you ever red 'Who Moved My cheese'; it's this simple, SE moved our cheese. We can chose to sit still and worry about the fact that the cheese moved afraid to move on in case we don't like the new cheese - and starve. Or, we can move on and find the new cheese and give it a try.

I am going to go find the new cheese, it's better than no cheese.

One thing in life is constant. That one thing is...















CHANGE.