Do you know healer DPS is easier in easier content?

Now personally I think healers should DPS, but if you don't, you do you, it's your choice.

But where did people get the idea that the harder the content, the more you should DPS as a healer, and therefore healer DPS shouldn't be needed in casual content? I see this as a very frequent argument when arguing that healers don't need to DPS in casual content.

It doesn't actually make sense. It's much easier to DPS as a healer in Sastasha than in A12S. In Sastasha you can take a nap while the tank is tanking and by the time you wake up the tank is still at half health. In A12S, you really need to plan your cooldowns and mitigations in a flawless way in order to even have 25% of the DPS's dps, outside of add phase padding.

People tend to define higher level content as 'harder content', that's the thing. And at Lv. 50 and 60, it's super easy to overgear the hell out that content.

I don't think ANYONE is insane enough to actually argue this from a raiding standpoint.

I agree with this completely.

The whole "I shouldn't need to DPS because the content is easy" argument makes me chuckle quite a bit..

If it's so easy then you also shouldn't need to heal much. So you might as well DPS isntead of standing around, in order to speed things up and help yourself and other people do another run or get on with their other in-game needs sooner.

I agree with the OP, you do you, and I won't rage at you for not casting offensive spells as a healer.. However I also won't commend you if you don't put in that extra effort where you can.

I'd say I'm not falling for this bait again, but here I am responding to post by Skyrior.

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Originally Posted by Centershock

I'd say I'm not falling for this bait again, but here I am responding to post by Skyrior.

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Everyone loves me. I love myself too.

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Originally Posted by Altena

If it's so easy then you also shouldn't need to heal much. So you might as well DPS isntead of standing around, in order to speed things up and help yourself and other people do another run or get on with their other in-game needs sooner.

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It depend on the other 3 people in the party.
Sometimes you have enough time to do dmg, sometimes someone get hit by every AoE

My opinion is that we need more bees.

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Originally Posted by Felis

It depend on the other 3 people in the party.
Sometimes you have enough time to do dmg, sometimes someone get hit by every AoE

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I mean, sure. That's a given and pretty much didn't need to be said.

If people are getting hit a lot and/or dying then sure.. No one in this endless healer should DPS argument ever suggests that DPS should be the priority for a healer.

However in easier content, as the OP suggests, the danger of dying is very minimal. The argument that the content is casual content "so I shouldn't need to DPS on healer" is quite frankly stupid. I believe that's the angle the OP is coming from.

If you have the time to DPS, and in casual content that is most often the case, then you should be encouraged to toss out some offensive spells. If you don't then you will likely just get less commends.

Just to add to the ridiculousness of the thread .... Do you know that the sky looks blue?

Imma retract Undead10000's hug and give it to you instead <3

/hugs!

Healer dps is completely dependent on whether or not your team is willing to AVOID getting killed. If you're still busy keeping them alive then you'll have no time to dps

because healers participating in savage are generally more skilled...and since it is hard content,they are expected to make use of cleric stance as much as possible.

meanwhile,in DF, you get all sorts of players, many of them not feeling comfortable with cleric stance and hence not using it.


That's actually all there is to it, I'd say.

An important PSA: Holy and Celestial Opposition both stun. Also SCH has a fairy and only needs to get 3 GCDs off. Also also WHM has Assize.

That said if you don't know how to DPS as a healer I'd rather you just stuck to healing so that everyone doesn't die. Holmgang/Hallowed/Living Dead can only save me once.

Hopefully they're going to announce tomorrow they're removing cleric stance and just having MND affect spell damage for the healers. It was just an unnecessary toggle that complicated things at best and drove people away from DPSing at worst.

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

Hopefully they're going to announce tomorrow they're removing cleric stance and just having MND affect spell damage for the healers. It was just an unnecessary toggle that complicated things at best and drove people away from DPSing at worst.

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Not really. The whole point of Cleric Stance is to force healers to make a decision on whether they can get away with NOT healing for 2 GCDs. It's always a risk to toggle it and I think it should stay. What they should do is make Cleric Stance more robust and not prone to accidentally not triggering due to latency/packet loss. You shouldn't be in danger because the game's netcode accidentally drops the signal to turn off Cleric Stance.

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Originally Posted by Skyrior

Not really. The whole point of Cleric Stance is to force healers to make a decision on whether they can get away with NOT healing for 2 GCDs. It's always a risk to toggle it and I think it should stay. What they should do is make Cleric Stance more robust and not prone to accidentally not triggering due to latency/packet loss. You shouldn't be in danger because the game's netcode accidentally drops the signal to turn off Cleric Stance.

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Right. An unnecessary toggle to get the same damage you get in other games for free that's only been put in this game to create complexity. Hopefully they're removing it tomorrow.

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

Right. An unnecessary toggle to get the same damage you get in other games for free that's only been put in this game to create complexity. Hopefully they're removing it tomorrow.

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In my experience, cleric stance has nothing to do with it. The healers I get have plenty of time to safely use it and they'd rather over heal or do nothing. Even in a12s, the healers have at least 15 seconds of heal free time when I pull, and they almost never dps during that time. It's just like someone on the tank forums said: it's not even a skill gap, it's a participation gap.

Skyrior thread....
Did you know you do not need tanks? two friends did some 210 cap 60 df and they where tanking more then the tank was, final boss was done without tank due to being pushed off.
Did you know in expert, in between the second and 3rd boss (sloppy guy) can be done without a tank?
Did you know low level dfs more stuff can be done without a tank and easier do so then in salvage?
Ice is cold
boiling water is hot
What is the point of this thread now?
oh right Skyrior thread... maybe he got a girl lalafall mentor healer and felt tricked finding out they where a boy in rl that did not dps.

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Originally Posted by Hamada

What is the point of this thread now?
oh right Skyrior thread...

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To be fair, this thread is less shit posting and more an actual concern over the division of the playerbase. You're just hung up on the poster (Who admittedly is a troll at heart), but his points aren't exactly abstract or foreign. At worst he's guilty of making another Healer DPS thread.

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Originally Posted by Transient_Shadow

Healer dps is completely dependent on whether or not your team is willing to AVOID getting killed. If you're still busy keeping them alive then you'll have no time to dps

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Most people here thinks that the healer MUST do dps even if the party isnt evading any attacks, its like "i dont care what happens you better keep me alive and at the same time do dps non stop" to help their weak dps.

Ridiculous ideas from noobs trying to be elitists, healer doing dps shouls be totally optional in every situation, it doesnt matter if its a hard content or easy content, after all even in the easiest dungeons theres people being hit by every attack.

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Originally Posted by Keikun

Most people here thinks that the healer MUST do dps even if the party isnt evading any attacks, its like "i dont care what happens you better keep me alive and at the same time do dps non stop" to help their weak dps.

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Please point out a few of these "most people here" who have argued that healers must DPS in each and every situation when their party members are eating AoEs left and right and are in constant danger of dying any second. :)

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Originally Posted by Taika

Please point out a few of these "most people here" who have argued that healers must DPS in each and every situation when their party members are eating AoEs left and right and are in constant danger of dying any second. :)

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^ this but I met co healers that did this, here I am healing my brains out and there goes that i270 healer still dpsing.

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Originally Posted by Greedalox

To be fair, this thread is less shit posting and more an actual concern over the division of the playerbase. You're just hung up on the poster (Who admittedly is a troll at heart), but his points aren't exactly abstract or foreign. At worst he's guilty of making another Healer DPS thread.

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I said what I said because of this order:

1. Stating the obvious, it is why I said "ice is cold"
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very minor reasons: TC is a known troll and restating a beaten horse topic.

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

Hopefully they're going to announce tomorrow they're removing cleric stance and just having MND affect spell damage for the healers. It was just an unnecessary toggle that complicated things at best and drove people away from DPSing at worst.

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If they do this, PvP becomes a broken, horrible mess. Again. They're not removing Cleric Stance, cause then the only thing they could do to keep healers from being murder machines in PvP would be not allowing them to use offensive spells at all, which greatly hinders the tools they have at their disposal to disable enemies with status effects. People wishing Cleric will go don't see the bigger picture here...

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Originally Posted by Keikun

Ridiculous ideas from noobs trying to be elitists, healer doing dps shouls be totally optional in every situation, it doesnt matter if its a hard content or easy content, after all even in the easiest dungeons theres people being hit by every attack.

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So the player trying to maximise their role is a noob because of someone else getting hit by every attack in the easiest dungeon?

This is fine =(

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Originally Posted by Fernosaur

If they do this, PvP becomes a broken, horrible mess. Again.

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Unfortunately this is a PvE game first and foremost, PvP will always take a back seat to that.

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Originally Posted by Skyrior

Everyone loves me. I love myself too.

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I rest my case on the seriousness of any of this guy's posts.

And I do agree that the sky looks blue. Unless you're seeing it with rose-tinted glasses. In which case, it'd be like some sort of pastel purple or something.

Well, in savage you usually find good healers and in your normal dungeon you get all sorts of healers, from first time healer to savage healer. Those first timers may have not the experience to do (a lot) of dmg yet.

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

Hopefully they're going to announce tomorrow they're removing cleric stance and just having MND affect spell damage for the healers. It was just an unnecessary toggle that complicated things at best and drove people away from DPSing at worst.

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Many of those healers don't dps because they don't want to. A healer is an only for healing according to them. This has nothing to do with cleric at all. If they ever remove cleric, i'll consider playing an different role, because cleric is insanely important for healers.

1. It makes you consider and thinking about an "heal rotation" for the different fights. You have to know, how to heal efficiently and when to dps, because of how cleric works
1.1 This makes you better at healing aswell.
2. The stance dancing shows the difference between an good and an bad healer.
3. Removing cleric would result in even more people forcing healers to dps, cause there would be no downside to it.
4. stance dancing is fun \o/
5. If they remove cleric they have to consider making content, much, much harder to heal. Which in return would create an toxic community, cause many healers wouldn't be able to heal these type of content.
5.1 If they don't make content harder, good healers would fall asleep during them and probably switch the role.

Both - 5. and 5.1 - would result in less healers and therefore longer queue times. Cleric is imo as i've said insanely important to balance the difficulty of healing out and make this role as fun as it is for (almost) everyone.

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Originally Posted by Fernosaur

If they do this, PvP becomes a broken, horrible mess. Again. They're not removing Cleric Stance, cause then the only thing they could do to keep healers from being murder machines in PvP would be not allowing them to use offensive spells at all, which greatly hinders the tools they have at their disposal to disable enemies with status effects. People wishing Cleric will go don't see the bigger picture here...

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I'm a veteran PVPer in this game and to see someone claim that PVP balance is "the bigger picture here" is just killing me. LMFAO.

If I had a penny for every time I have seen a thread about "healer dps"...

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media...vdqvygyjpg.jpg

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Originally Posted by Fernosaur

If they do this, PvP becomes a broken, horrible mess. Again. They're not removing Cleric Stance, cause then the only thing they could do to keep healers from being murder machines in PvP would be not allowing them to use offensive spells at all, which greatly hinders the tools they have at their disposal to disable enemies with status effects. People wishing Cleric will go don't see the bigger picture here...

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Considering the devs mentioned PvE abilities may no longer be accessible in PvP and they'll stick to wholly unique PvP abilities. This wouldn't even be an issue. They could also cut the damage but not the effect. You aren't using Holy in Frontlines for damage anyway. So what difference would it make?