I think SAM will be like MNK and I'm okay with that.

What I'm saying is that SAM will be a high DPS/Low utility melee DPS like MNK and by extension, BLM and SMN. I honestly dont think there is anything wrong with that. Instead of trying to give every class some kind of DPS utility to benefit everything else, heavy hitter classes should just be the ones soaking the benefits and putting out the damage the other DPS with utility provide.

In the end, it should be comparable to having all utility DPS buffing each other in that raid wide DPS is close to the same. Of course, that kind of balancing isn't something simple to ask for, but I rather that direction than every DPS having a "click these to give raid more DPS" button.

I like the idea of DRG, NIN, BRD, and MCH beign the debuff/buffers and providing the openings for the more heavy hitting DPS to excel. Of course, wit the specific inter-dependencies of certain classes, they is not possible at the moment. But it could be better you know?

For example, instead of the individual dmg type debuffs, it's a common theory that they'll all be merged one something more general, like a phys dmg resist debuff or something. That way, classes like BRD and MCH don't just give up if there is no DRG. But at the same time, I don;t think EVERY melee should have this. So what say, DRG and NIn have this debuff, but SAM and MNK don't. The former are providing somethign the later benefit from. So instead of DRG/NIN being a must, it can be DRG/SAM or MNK/NIN or DRG/MNK or SAM/NIN.

Of course, this isn't the best scenario, sicne MNK/SAM and DRG/NIN isn't as good as the other two, but it's better than what we have now, yeah?

ANyways, these is mostly me incoherently rambling about what I hope for. I already know that whatever SE has planned is already done and ready to go, so there isn't much point to this, but eh, it's whatever.

TL:DR - Heavy hitters like MNK should have a place and I hope SAM is like MNK.

As a Monk i approve this post ^^

I kinda want it to play a little slower paced. Something like warrior. low dps most of the time(compared to its cleaves) then burst 3 big #$% hits at once. I have no preference on utility. As long as its fun. Red mage could possibly be utility while Sam is pure damage. Orrr it could be the other way around.. I cant wait to find out. Im leveling both asap.

If nothing changes about the slashing/piercing/blunt resistance debuffs (which they might, so let's look forward to the next live letter) it's hard to see mnk being optimal. As long as brd/mch are needed, drg will almost always have a reserved spot, unless mnk/sam do significantly more dmg than drg. Meanwhile nin is pretty unique in terms of aggro management, which is pretty crucial for tanks' dps, even before taking into account trick attack and potentially goad. Taking into account all these, and mch's hypercharge, it's hard to break the "trinity" of drg/nin/mch, and if we take those three jobs, then mnk/sam/blm/smn/rdm/brd will be fighting for the last dps slot.

Personally I'm thinking that adding a blunt type dps with mp/tp regen might make mnk's position better, since instead of bringing drg/mch or drg/brd we can replace them with mnk and the new dps. Similarly adding a job with some sort of aggro management would give an alternative to nin. It'll reduce nin's uniqueness, but as of now it's the one and only job with that kind of utility (vuln up, resist down, stat buffs aren't as unique) so it'll be always desirable unless tanks' dps grow smaller relative to dps jobs' that the extra dps gained by the aggro management help becomes negligible.

AHHH i hope not i want to play a Sam but i DO NOT want to have to juggle my positions every other button push...so annoying.

I've been kinda hoping it would be that way for monk and now samurai as well. Keep the lack of utility and bump up the damage. If monk/sam have no utility then they should be far and above the strongest dps.

I like the idea of putting all the debuffs together, for example, slash/pierce/blunt becomes phys. dmg increase

That'd make the combination of the 8-man team more versatile, and people favoriting certain classes won't be shunned.

But SAM-speaking wise, since the weapon is a Katana, I'd say it's a slashing weapon yeah? (lol). I'd have to see whether SAM itself would have its own slash resistance debuff combo or would it depend on either WAR or NIN to do the job, and that'd mean everything in the line-up of the raid team.

The FanFest reveal description for SAM is more consistent with BLM if BLM were a melee job (big numbers, less frequently). c.f. MNK's smaller numbers, more frequently. Either way, looking forward to the combat reveal PLL happening Monday morning.

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Originally Posted by Lawman

AHHH i hope not i want to play a Sam but i DO NOT want to have to juggle my positions every other button push...so annoying.

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I dont think the Op meant having positionals like MNK, just high dmg output in exchange for almost no utility.

I was thinking SAM will be near Monk damage wise but will have utility, seeing how hyped SAM was and Yoshi himself so it will be OP for sure at the beginning.

Unfortunately, if they do go that route, it won't seen much love in the raid scene. Someone did a rather in-depth analysis on the frequency of each role and Monk fell considerably shorter than every other DPS job. They simply don't do enough raw damage to offset their lack of utility. I mean, this tier alone, even Bard started to catch up to Monk despite being vastly more useful to the raid. The devs really need to reconsider how buffs work to better encourage non-meta comps.

I think one potential problem with raising mnk's personal dps to offset against other jobs' dps utilities is that it might become too OP for 4 man contents where dps utilities aren't as powerful as in 8 man contents due to lack of people and "incomplete" composition. I personally don't care about this, considering we already have smn being OP in dungeons anyway, but I wonder what the devs think about it. Imo jobs should be balanced against each other in the most difficult contents, but some might disagree.

I hope SAM has a sensible system to its design. MNK is just a recipe for carpal tunnel with chakra building and form shifting when there's nothing to hit. I'm on board with it being a powerhouse, especially if it has one or two cast time abilities via sword drawing arts.

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

I think one potential problem with raising mnk's personal dps to offset against other jobs' dps utilities is that it might become too OP for 4 man contents where dps utilities aren't as powerful as in 8 man contents due to lack of people and "incomplete" composition. I personally don't care about this, considering we already have smn being OP in dungeons anyway, but I wonder what the devs think about it. Imo jobs should be balanced against each other in the most difficult contents, but some might disagree.

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Is there any 4-man content outside of high floor POTD that's actually difficult enough that it matters? That's like saying no one wants a NIN for expert roulette because SMN exists. Maybe true, but it's not like NINs aren't getting into expert roulettes.

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Originally Posted by NovaLevossida

Is there any 4-man content outside of high floor POTD that's actually difficult enough that it matters? That's like saying no one wants a NIN for expert roulette because SMN exists. Maybe true, but it's not like NINs aren't getting into expert roulettes.

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Not that I know of. I was just stating a possible (from dev's pov) problem with too much personal dps difference between jobs.

As a monk, I don't approve of this.

This is just a difference of opinion though. I might main MNK but I don't support having a dps that is just better damage and no utility. I love how MNK plays and that's always the most important thing, but the lack of utility always bothered me.
I think every dps should bring something to a group and those utilities balanced overall.

All those types of buffs have been mostly unique so it's not like I'm asking for homogenization, quite the opposite.
How different utilities/buffs work with each other makes for interesting raid synergy. It's great when every dps pays it forward.

I've been okay enough with MNK despite all that, and if I play SAM and it is similar, I will be okay too.
But I'd certainly prefer if either weren't 'selfish' dps in Stormblood.

Hmmmm, I think people tend to forget mnk's real raid utility... I mean, except world 1st PGMs and all those crazy players with crazy skills :
- Do you remember AS3 (without echo) without a mnk ? DK debuff was like REALLY usefull for progression purposes. I took this fight in example since it was a true hard fight. But that's the same for AS4 and AS8.
- Having a Mantra can save few people in any fight, especially in progression phases...
- It also increase Ifrit damages (no, okay, I joke ^^)

But all this to say, mnk isn't useless ! It's only not the best choice for speedruns. But once you take it for progression, mnk is way more usefull than drg/nin, since you may prefer to learn mechanics before going full deeps :) (no need to say, there wasn't any true dps check in Alex Savage)

So if SAM is just a powerhouse with heal/tank utility, i'm pretty fine with it too :)

The problem when you try to compare defensive vs offensive utilities is that defensive utilities' value diminishes very quickly as you overgear. Dragon kick is replacable with delirium (the mitigation effect), mantra is valuable mostly only during early progression with low ilv. Some of the world first clear groups used mnk for the defensive utilities: mnk for a7s (also pld), and a8s if I recall correctly, but once you overgear the content enough you don't need those defensive utilities so the jobs with offensive utilities become the objectively better choices.

I'm also quite sure a3s early clear groups didn't bring mnk since the main problem with early a3s clear is the dps check (at least the world first group brought drg/nin instead). Dragon kick mitigation can be replaced by delirium so nothing's lost by not bringing mnk there.

So here's a great write up on Reddit for the SAM and it's abilities/mechanics. Someone should make an official SAM topic at some point with this info. All credit to Eyphio on the XIV subreddit.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1...z3XlmZXLs/edit

Sounds really fun!

I think it's more about how it's seen by the raid community at large than anything else. As crap as it is to have one member decide that they didn't want a monk who was pure dps, it would definitely be useful to pander and take away that excuse.

From what we've seen in the Live Letter now, I'm even more excited about it. I love how we have some increased SkS, but not entirely as fast as NIN or MNK, how we have buffs and debuff into our combos and a gauge system to unleash a flurry variety of attacks with. I love how it has a little build up feel to it like monk with the Sen, but diversity a little more like ninja with the Kenki gauge. I also like how it does seem to have plenty of positionals as I like moving around in combat, but they matter more for the Kenki building rather than the dmg from the actual used skills. Looking forward to executing all those clean cuts too. :)

A single target attack with a 720 potency? I'm in.