Tank population drop after Stormblood?

Anyone else worried there won't be enough tanks for heavenward and below content when Stormblood launches? With the introduction of new DPS jobs I'm worried the 50-60 instances will suffer from long queue times, as many main tanks will either be pushing new content or testing out the new jobs. Perhaps duty roulette will help out with tanks leveling from 60-70, but who knows.

Not really.

In Heavensward, they introduced new jobs in tanking and healing roles to try to get people to shift into those roles to play the Shiny New Thing (TM) (if I remember right, it was at about 20-20-60 for tank-heal-dd). What they found was that despite the new jobs being in the less desirable roles, it had zero impact on the ratios of players picking different roles. So what they're doing in Stormblood makes sense, bringing the availability of diversity in jobs more closely in line with actual player role selection ratios.

I don't think it will hurt the population. Maybe at first, since everyone is going to want to level RDM and SMR (SAM?), but I don't think it's going to stay that way in endgame. Tanks will still want to tank, DDs will still want the l33t d33pz, and healers will still wonder why they think they enjoy covering for everyone else's incompetence and cursing their fat-fingering of Cleric Stance.

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

So what they're doing in Stormblood makes sense, bringing the availability of diversity in jobs more closely in line with actual player role selection ratios.

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Alas, they're not adjusting the party slot ratio to match as well.

I agree that in the long run, there won't be too much change. But the start is gonna be a royal pain and I really hope PotD is going to stay a decent XP source.

While it is true that that it didn't increase the overall population much, it did keep it afloat.

With no new jobs there isn't much to keep Tanks and Healers interested apart from their main, considering they had time to try out the old jobs already to see if they like them or not.

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Originally Posted by kashi11

Anyone else worried there won't be enough tanks for heavenward and below content when Stormblood launches? With the introduction of new DPS jobs I'm worried the 50-60 instances will suffer from long queue times, as many main tanks will either be pushing new content or testing out the new jobs. Perhaps duty roulette will help out with tanks leveling from 60-70, but who knows.

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According to Yoshi, PotD and Fates and such are supposed to keep this from happening.

I'm interested in playing the new classes but my WAR will always be my priority and it'll be what I get to 70 first. Heck, I may even level both DRK and PLD to 70 before starting the new classes just to avoid the huge DPS queues for the first few months. Most of the tanks I know in game feel the same so I'm not worried about it. We may lose a few tanks to the deeps, deeps may lose a few to tanks for the queue times; overall I expect it to stay similar to what it was for HW.

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Originally Posted by TheSky

While it is true that that it didn't increase the overall population much, it did keep it afloat.

With no new jobs there isn't much to keep Tanks and Healers interested apart from their main, considering they had time to try out the old jobs already to see if they like them or not.

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I don't think this claim can be substantiated. Neither the addition of nothing but a DPS job (NIN), nor the addition of a mix of special jobs (DRK-AST-MCH) had any kind of impact on the population ratio. People who want to tank are going to keep tanking. People who want to heal are going to keep healing. People who want the l33t d33pz are going to keep DPSing, and it's a little fallacious to suggest that the addition (or lack of addition) of a new job for each of those roles is going to have an impact on their respective populations in the long term.

I guess we'll have to see with Stormblood, but I would guess that the main reason to keep playing for most players is content and story, rather than new classes/jobs in their chosen role.

Parry rework might draw some people in if it's interesting enough. I imagine, though, that with the introduction of no new tank jobs and 2 DPS jobs that we'll see at least a small decline in tank population. I'm personally not that interested in WAR anymore unless they decide to re-focus tanks on balancing defense and DPS rather than just being pure DPS that occasionally press defensive CDs. Dunno how many other tanks feel that way, I think a lot love it since it makes tanks the easiest jobs to play in the game, but I'm personally not a huge fan - if I'm basically just going to be DPSing anyway I'd rather just play a pure DPS and do more damage.

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Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Parry rework might draw some people in if it's interesting enough. I imagine, though, that with the introduction of no new tank jobs and 2 DPS jobs that we'll see at least a small decline in tank population. I'm personally not that interested in WAR anymore unless they decide to re-focus tanks on balancing defense and DPS rather than just being pure DPS that occasionally press defensive CDs. Dunno how many other tanks feel that way, I think a lot love it since it makes tanks the easiest jobs to play in the game, but I'm personally not a huge fan - if I'm basically just going to be DPSing anyway I'd rather just play a pure DPS and do more damage.

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Well, there was an interview that strongly suggested Paladin's options for defending against magic attacks are going to be increased. So it is nice to see defensive stuff is being looked at in some ways.

That said, the WAR crowd tends to attract a lot of hardcore DPSers... No news on it yet but, yeah, if SE touched that (more than they had to with the STR/VIT rework already), I can imagine a lot of people would be upset.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Well, there was an interview that strongly suggested Paladin's options for defending against magic attacks are going to be increased. So it is nice to see defensive stuff is being looked at in some ways.

That said, the WAR crowd tends to attract a lot of hardcore DPSers... No news on it yet but, yeah, if SE touched that (more than they had to with the STR/VIT rework already), I can imagine a lot of people would be upset.

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from my part a better balance betwen defense and ofense is really need it, i mean i hope we get more love on parry like spooky say and have more defensive playstyle.
ppl go to get upset no matter what path they choose, i hate the current meta on tanks but i main one bcs i love DRK in every sense, is the perfect job for me, and bcs i still love tanking and the feeling im doing my job perfectly setting the battlefiled for the rest of my party members, the drop grit and inflate you dps all you can is something i do for demand but i feel is complety wrong.

magic defense on PLD more that suggested is pretty confirmed if i remember well

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Well, there was an interview that strongly suggested Paladin's options for defending against magic attacks are going to be increased. So it is nice to see defensive stuff is being looked at in some ways.

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Hey, that's great! Now you won't need to drop DPS stance for magic damage tank busters anymore.

Increasing defense is the last thing tanks need if the goal is to reduce the effects of the DPS meta. The same goes for healers and getting more potent heals. The only things you can do is nerf them, require more GCDs for mitigation/healing for the same result as now or increase incoming damage to PvP-like levels.

Levels 50-60 won't be a issue since PotD and Fates (PotD is the best imo) will allow you to reach lvl 60 easily.

From lvl 60 to 70 we wil have to complete maybe 4 or 5 dungeons, and for DPSs queues will be longer, like always, nothing new here, if you play DPS you know that you have to wait more than Tank or Healers.

After lvl 70 you'll have daily expert and for "hardcore" players spam dungeons for gear or maybe spam hunts or who knows...but queues will be just the same, just like now. Every data center has different wait times.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Increasing defense is the last thing tanks need if the goal is to reduce the effects of the DPS meta.

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Believe it or not, it's actually not all about the DPS meta. Paladin has long been favored for progression because of its superior mitigation...

...except against bosses that lean heavily towards magic damage, where suddenly it doesn't look so great.

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it's a little fallacious to suggest that the addition (or lack of addition) of a new job for each of those roles is going to have an impact on their respective populations in the long term.

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This - at least as far as I'm concerned. Healer main who likes to tank from time to time - DPS being my last resort. I'm not even remotely interested in either of the new Jobs and will use Stormblood as a ticket to try keep up with the game, seeing as my induction into RR & HS was way, way too late, thus I've been playing 'catchup' for eternity rather than plunging its depths. Now that I'm caught-up to some degree, it'll be time to see what changes with my two main classes in Stormblood (rather than trying to wrap my head around new DPS). That's a route I will consider if/when I get bored of my main(s).

Roulette's won't go away, nor will the appeal of faster queues as tank. Will tanks decline? Maybe - but you won't magically become completely tank-starved for lower end content, especially considering levellers have to complete story-quests to enter the expansions fully, and there'll be plenty of people who haven't even hit 60 yet, nevermind have the MSQ done to its fullest.

Since there will be no new tank (or healer) class in stormblood, the only way i can see to increase tank population is to make the class itself more entertaining.

Just like putting a product on store shelf, if you want people to buy that particular product you must make it "interesting", the best i can think is hope that tank class in stormblood got the most "upgrade" compare to other class

I think 80% as to why people dont like tank is "responsibility" since as tank you work the most in party, and "automatic become the party leader" attidute is also not helping

If SE can make those 2 aspect intersting am sure people would at least try the tank class, as in right now the role of tank is prety much menacing to some people, instead of putting it in front of you so you can observe and learn, right now its more like "shove directly to your throat whetever you like it or not"

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

That said, the WAR crowd tends to attract a lot of hardcore DPSers... No news on it yet but, yeah, if SE touched that (more than they had to with the STR/VIT rework already), I can imagine a lot of people would be upset.

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They aren't getting nerfed but the other tanks are supposed to be getting some very handsome reworking, therefore WAR may no longer be a ***requirement*** in every party. If this turns out to be the case I definitely think people are going to be upset just because they've been spoiled for so long and haven't actually needed to compete whatsoever for a teamslot.

At the end of the day, any half-decent person would consider that a good thing, even if it comes at slight expense of their own class. I certainly won't cry if self-serving players break their keyboards over something like game-balancing.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's a bit of a drop, though I don't expect it to hit too hard outside of the initial few months. Samurai and Red Mage are two especially enticing jobs for a lot of players, and a lot of people are going to main them once Stormblood releases. For Heavensward we had a lot of people interested in trying tanking thanks to Dark Knight, and some of them decided to stay in that role. Unfortunately, while there isn't really anything (that we know of) that will attract more players to the role for Stormblood, so I'm guessing we will end up with a drop in Healer/Tank populations, though I don't expect it to be extremely major.

I'm a tank main and I'm still going to be a tank main. First priority will be getting all three tanks to 70. My co-tank will be getting PLD and DRK to 70 before he considers which jobs to level next.

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Originally Posted by Alien_Gamer

I'm interested in playing the new classes but my WAR will always be my priority and it'll be what I get to 70 first. Heck, I may even level both DRK and PLD to 70 before starting the new classes just to avoid the huge DPS queues for the first few months. Most of the tanks I know in game feel the same so I'm not worried about it. We may lose a few tanks to the deeps, deeps may lose a few to tanks for the queue times; overall I expect it to stay similar to what it was for HW.

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This tank agrees. WAR to 70 first, then PLD and DRK. And I am one who can only endure PotD for short bursts. As much as I can complain about DF sometimes, I prefer mixing up the dungeons and seeing changes of scenery. So no drop off of dungeon running for me. =)

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Originally Posted by kashi11

Anyone else worried there won't be enough tanks for heavenward and below content when Stormblood launches? With the introduction of new DPS jobs I'm worried the 50-60 instances will suffer from long queue times, as many main tanks will either be pushing new content or testing out the new jobs. Perhaps duty roulette will help out with tanks leveling from 60-70, but who knows.

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Im not giving up my instant que to main a dps haha

I was hoping for a new tank class. None of the ones we have now interest me that much.

Sure, tank population stayed roughly the same when we got something new. Big unanswered question is whether it will stay the same when we don't.

Personally, I expect both healer and tank population will drop at least a little bit.

Or maybe just up the tank dps while they doing story/solo session? Aside from war, pally and DK could use some dps upgrade to not make their outside dungeon activity a chore

Everyone love big damage

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Sure, tank population stayed roughly the same when we got something new. Big unanswered question is whether it will stay the same when we don't.

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I know my queue times were astronomical on DPS when NIN was added. The common counter argument is "well, that was mid-expansion." I don't really buy it. I expect DPS queues to become long again. I've just leveled a tank in case of that.

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Originally Posted by gumas

Or maybe just up the tank dps while they doing story/solo session? Aside from war, pally and DK could use some dps upgrade to not make their outside dungeon activity a chore

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DRK isn't really that far behind WAR, but sure, I'll take free buffs.

They'll drop. Just one example is one of the healers in our raid team switching to SAM from SCH.

How much they'll drop is uncertain, but there's no doubt that there will be a drop. Be prepared for it.

If you were interested in trying out tanking or healing, now is a great time because you will be in high demand for SB.

I main PLD > DRK > WAR. I'll be one of the tanks that will probably get abused :(

Long live the Shield!

And theres the new mount(s) for tanks, wich i bet will be one more reason for people thinking to tank, also with the bs towards healers + two highly demanded jobs , i think the main drop will be from healers, but i think tanks still will be instant queue.
Im hoping we will get some info on healing changes, personally hoping more instakill (if not shielded/healed fast and cd mitigated) and incoming damage so healers will be more challenged.

Yes they will loose tanks, this one for sure. Since real life stuff is coming up I hope to not return. Based on the 3.0 launch there was a much longer queue than usual as a tank waiting for DPS. It only lasted a few days, but it seemed like a lot of DPS players switched to DRK or AST. So I believe there will be a bit longer queue waiting for tanks. I mean it's already long for DPS what makes you thing it won't be longer?

Short term I'm expecting the DPS queues to suck (though for anyone that does play a Tank, or Healer, during this time it's going to be great) ...

Longer term it depends what they do to actually fix the various Tank and Healer class issues (which for me personally means Paladin and White Mage). If they do fix the issues (and no, I don't think low DPS / Cleric Stance is one of them), then I'll probably end up playing these roles even more... but if they've just been paying lip service, or somehow manage to miss the point and screw it up (which is not unprecedented), then yeah, BLM, SAM and maybe RDM all the way.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Sure, tank population stayed roughly the same when we got something new. Big unanswered question is whether it will stay the same when we don't.

Personally, I expect both healer and tank population will drop at least a little bit.

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True, Machinist isn't exactly that exciting, especially once you get saddled with Gauss Barrel :(, so if you weren't already into ranged support classes, you aren't likely to give up Tanking / Healing to play MCH as a main; especially with the extra options that DRK and AST present.

With Stormblood however, and two highly anticipated new DPS jobs, but no new Healer or Tank jobs, it is going to rest squarely on the battle system, and individual classes changes, to keep the more causal Tanks and Healers playing those roles on a regular basis. i.e. While the hardcore my mostly enjoy the role, I for one mostly enjoy the class, and it is yet to be seen if that will remain the case.

well since the anouncment that the 2 new jobs are both DPS there has be a sudden surge in leveling Tank and Healer jobs (by guess is so during stormblood they can get into queues quickly) so all in all with the 2 new DPS jobs I see the queues being business as normal so 15 to 25 mins for DPS

Easiest way to keep the dps queues short is changing the default layout of 1 tank 1 healer 2 dps into 1 tank 1 healer 3 dps.
That would shorten the queues for dps. It might have another issue like load on the servers etc. but we don't care about those things... use stronger HW square ;)

I suspect the issue will be less pronounced simply due to people leveling SAM and RDM using PotD as it is more efficient. I'll personally be running dungeons at various milestones so I don't develop any awful habits but we shall see.

nah

people will play some of the new jobs and go back to their thing... i am hoping samurai will be dope. i dont really like any of the DPS jobs in this game. Dragoon makes me want to strangle every tank in existence, Monk is annoying/boring, ninja would have been awesome except mudra lag and then all the other jobs are just not even fun. I think the only one I haven't tried is Machinist but last I heard they were a poor man's Bard.

if other tanks are like me they are probably going to go back to their jobs. i hope samurai will be awesome but i'm not exactly stoked.