Dam. meter

Come on now, give us a damm in game dam. and healing meter. Just make it so it cant be postet if you are scared of a salt flood. Its so annoying and almost game breaking that your game dont supply this.

There is literally no point in this thread - they are quite adamant on this. There will be no official parser. Period.

Ofcause there will. And it need to be brought up all the time, everywhere :)

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Originally Posted by poffo

Ofcause there will. And it need to be brought up all the time, everywhere :)

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It won't happen as Vidu stated.

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Originally Posted by poffo

Ofcause there will. And it need to be brought up all the time, everywhere :)

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They're making it pretty clear each time the topic gets brought up that they dont want it and wont introduce it. At this point you're not better than a child asking if you can finally have a dog after your parents said "No, because daddy is allergic" for the 100th time.

They repeat their reasons why each time they get asked about it - and remebering the last FanFest and them answering this question again Yoshi seemed to get annoyed by it. And I can totally see why... This isnt "If we cry loud enough, they'll consider it" - this is "No. Wont happen."

I dont see why, and maybe its Yoshi thats being the child. from what i learned is they "accept" out side programs to try and silence the demand from a group of players of there game. There main reasson as i undestand is that some players uses it to "hit other players in the head with numbers" wich is a poor agument imo :) So they should stop being stubborn and put it in....atleast in small groups and solo.

It's just one of those things that, no matter how much we want it, we'll never get it. Best to suck it up.

I will argue for it forever, but making new threads will never accomplish anything.

This game will never have:
Add-ons
Parsers
A highly functional macro system
Ability animations that you can freely clip (You know how you can only fit 1-2 oGCD's in? This is why.)

Lots of MMO's take features like these for granted, but not here. These are all things that they've decided aren't in this MMO. It's why plenty of players still flirt with other games from time to time.

Last time this was asked, at the last Fanfest, Yoshi P got up and started to walk out of the room.

He's tired of being asked. It's not going to happen as long as he's the producer/director.

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Originally Posted by poffo

I dont see why, and maybe its Yoshi thats being the child. from what i learned is they "accept" out side programs to try and silence the demand from a group of players of there game.

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Let me go find the page where it says parsers are against ToS.

"we would like to remind players that using third-party programs, parsers, or other tools to conduct actions players would not normally be able to do in the game is a violation of the Terms of Service, and will be dealt with strict disciplinary action."

Link

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Originally Posted by Stitches1974

Let me go find the page where it says parsers are against ToS.

"we would like to remind players that using third-party programs, parsers, or other tools to conduct actions players would not normally be able to do in the game is a violation of the Terms of Service, and will be dealt with strict disciplinary action."

Link

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Thats why i write "accept" in situationmarks. meaning they official dont but in practis they do.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

They're making it pretty clear each time the topic gets brought up that they dont want it and wont introduce it. At this point you're not better than a child asking if you can finally have a dog after your parents said "No, because daddy is allergic" for the 100th time.

They repeat their reasons why each time they get asked about it - and remebering the last FanFest and them answering this question again Yoshi seemed to get annoyed by it. And I can totally see why... This isnt "If we cry loud enough, they'll consider it" - this is "No. Wont happen."

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They've changed their mind on things in the past due to player persistence, its not really a period end of story. More of an incredibly unlikely.

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Originally Posted by Stitches1974

Let me go find the page where it says parsers are against ToS.

"we would like to remind players that using third-party programs, parsers, or other tools to conduct actions players would not normally be able to do in the game is a violation of the Terms of Service, and will be dealt with strict disciplinary action."

Link

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Actually, parsers aren't against ToS. The link you provided isn't the ToS. This is: http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...2&tag=users_en

Also OP, everyone knows the stance Yoshi and crew has on parsers, so I don't know why these threads keep popping up. At best I'd say they tweak the existing Idyllshire Dummy tests to include actual numbers. That in itself is a longshot though.

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Originally Posted by dotsforlife

Actually, parsers aren't against ToS. The link you provided isn't the ToS. This is: http://support.na.square-enix.com/ru...2&tag=users_en

Also, everyone knows the stance Yoshi and crew has on parsers, so I don't know why these threads keep popping up.

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An official notice, by SE, that says it's against ToS is the same thing.

Yes, I know Yoshi's stance. Don't let anyone know you run a parser.

EDIT: As for specifics, it most likely be under this:

3. PROHIBITED ACTIVITIES
In addition to the License Limitations, there are other activities that you are forbidden from doing in connection with the Game ("Prohibited Activities"). In its discretion, Square Enix may use a variety of methods to deal with violations of this User Agreement and the Prohibited Activities, including, but not limited to, any of the following:

3.2 Disruption. You may not in any way disrupt or interfere with the Game experience of other players ( I.E. using a parser to tell someone their dps is low )

Here's what I don't get. If the responses to questions like this are always the same, and they're sick of answering them, why don't the people who pick which questions get asked at live letters/fanfest just go "Oh. Parser question." Then throw it over their shoulder and pick a new one?

Don't get me wrong, I'd like a parser too. But if the team are tired of answering these questions, why don't they just not answer them?

Which will happen first?

1 - addon support
2 - open world Ifrit
3 - new egis

Place your bets

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Originally Posted by Azzie

Here's what I don't get. If the responses to questions like this are always the same, and they're sick of answering them, why don't the people who pick which questions get asked at live letters/fanfest just go "Oh. Parser question." Then throw it over their shoulder and pick a new one?

Don't get me wrong, I'd like a parser too. But if the team are tired of answering these questions, why don't they just not answer them?

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Because it's a recurring request from the players dedicated enough to go to things like FanFest. They know that there is a discord between their wants and those of the hardcore playerbase, and discounting it out of hand will make them go to other games faster.

I remember Yoshi-P literally tried to walk out of a Q&A when someone asked if a meter could be included.

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Originally Posted by LystAP

I remember Yoshi-P literally tried to walk out of a Q&A when someone asked if a meter could be included.

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If you're talking about the Q&A during Fanfest in Frankfurt, they said they didn't want to add a parser because it would cause more tension within the community. The problem with the answer is it was given around the time Zurvan EX (skip soar) and Diadem 2.0 (AFKing before duty completion with no vote kick option and EM able to go to crap with one player's actions) were released.

They said if they made it personal only, people would just ask for you to tell them your numbers, and the meter would be reverse-engineered to yield numbers for everyone. You can already ask for numbers with SSS and any tricks that told you other players' numbers would only be available on PC, where everyone already parses.

They could simply add a personal parser and keep the rules for parsing they have in place now: No posting or commenting on the numbers of others, even if they lie when asked to give them.

A damage meter will eventually be added, it's just a matter of when.

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Originally Posted by Stitches1974

3.2 Disruption. You may not in any way disrupt or interfere with the Game experience of other players ( I.E. using a parser to tell someone their dps is low )

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But the existence of a parser does not automatically imply this.

His response was a very clear, in-English "NO."

He then explained that while they could do it, and even if they made it so it only personally showed your numbers to you, it would only be a matter of time before players reverse engineer it (a TOS violation) and start misusing it.

It might not seem like it at times, but he and the devs know EXACTLY who they're dealing with.

As for the OP, if you're THAT concerned about your performance, learn the basics first, consult a player who's well known for playing that job well, practice and perfect your rotation and skill usage/timing, and you won't have anything to worry about.

Seriously though, Yoshida really should give this another look since console players are at disvantage and playing in the dark, without knowing how they measure up to their party.

I'll be moving to the PS4 for the expansion and it'll suck to learn new rotations without knowing how well I'm doing.

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Originally Posted by poffo

I dont see why, and maybe its Yoshi thats being the child.

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Based on the posts in this topic by you, it seems that you might be the child since you apparently can't take 'No' as an answer.

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Originally Posted by Ririta

Seriously though, Yoshida really should give this another look since console players are at disvantage and playing in the dark, without knowing how they measure up to their party.

I'll be moving to the PS4 for the expansion and it'll suck to learn new rotations without knowing how well I'm doing.

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Training dummys and the battle log can tell you what you need to know.

Anyone else think of this when reading this thread?

https://img.memesuper.com/e5a51c6973...me_640-457.png

Also, there is an in-game means of measuring performance. It's called "Stone, Sky, Sea" and it allows you to gauge your damage and performance against dummies calibrated to particular fights so you can gauge how well you would perform in various fights. It's not a perfect system by any means, but I'll gladly settle for that than having to spend any effort ignoring some snob going on about their numbers.

As much as I want it to happen, and hopefully in a way that actually improves the community, it's never going to happen.

One has to remember, people have already abused parsers in this very game, without the developers ever encouraging the use of them. Historical precedence already shows that every other game that has an official one tends to have generally crappy communities. If FFXIV implements one and it turns out this game's community follows the same path, it's not something that can ever be rolled back or 'fixed'.

What did I mean by that very first sentence? Let's have the below excerpt explain.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...ingame_parser/

“Koike incident”

A female player and celebrity named Miyu Koike, who also happened to be the host for FFXIV’s official Nico Nico channel show, had an incident she attempted to recruit 7 other players to play with her (this was broadcasted live at that time). Abyss of Darkness, a world 3rd Japanese group for Final Coil clear then sneaked into the party (6 of them), streaming themselves through an unofficial channel and then made fun of Koike through slanders, spinning the boss around, and made fun of her DPS performance. Worse, Koike was also sexually harassed when the party disbands.

This prompted the Japanese community to punish the group sending hundreds of naked Roegadyns (Hageruga Matsuri, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vOkhhTUjJi0). As a result, these trolls ended up changing their names, servers, deleted their Twitter accounts, issued a non sincere apology through their Nicovideo live broadcast (which further angered the community).

Finally the group ended up a temporary ban given by the lead community representive, Foxclon himself.
The incident did not end in a sweet note however, therefore the group is currently monitored.

The above incident is probably a HUGE reason why we won't ever get a parser, even though people can debate on how much parsing actually mattered in that incident. There's no arguing that it was a factor, though - and we all know by this point that the developers have a higher chance to act towards something (or not at all) if it's an issue within the Japanese community, and this happened there, on an EXTREMELY public platform no less (Nico Nico is essentially the Japanese YouTube, and the victim was an official host for Square Enix). And the developers are probably incredibly miffed (and hugely embarrassed) that something like this ever happened in the first place, and once again, without them ever doing anything to have encouraged it in the first place.

Don't forget, humans as a collective group are quick to act shitty before everything else.

(And I guess if you really want someone to blame, you should take a flight to Japan and punch the gonads of every single member of the raid group that took part in that incident.)

No. They add nothing helpful to the game, just a tool for the community to begin harassing one another.

http://i.imgur.com/FvW2g.jpg

And sadly for you, no matter how many times you make a thread about it, you'll get the same answer.

It's like giving the bully on the playground a pair of brass knuckles.

P.S This is probably a troll thread.

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Originally Posted by Stitches1974

3.2 Disruption. You may not in any way disrupt or interfere with the Game experience of other players

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The Disruption clause is about things more along the lines of DDoSing people or servers. However, parsers are covered under

2.5 Data Mining. You may not intercept, mine or otherwise collect information from the Game using unauthorized third party software.

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Originally Posted by SaitoHikari

-snip-

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Now see, I'd never heard of this. This adds a lot of perspective to their decisions. While I still disagree with that decision, now I have what is probably a far more solid answer to the reasoning they have for this decision. Thank you.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

Add-ons
A highly functional macro system

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Those things would make me strongly consider dropping ffxiv, personal opinion.

I wondered if this had to do with the PvP title how it used to be "Dam"
Now it is Dan..>.>

for the topic, no, because it provokes harassment to easily. It is not that hard to be observant to know if things are dying slow though. Like today I was doing a leveling roulette and noticed things died very slowly. I knew both the MNK and BLM was to blame but I do not know enough about monk to suggest. However BLM is very easy to see, no mutli thundercloud, cast thunder in astral fire, let astral fire drop with about 25-50% mp in between pulls. At first I asked if they need advice, was ignored till the very end for them to release their toxic nature.

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Originally Posted by Ririta

Seriously though, Yoshida really should give this another look since console players are at disvantage and playing in the dark, without knowing how they measure up to their party.

I'll be moving to the PS4 for the expansion and it'll suck to learn new rotations without knowing how well I'm doing.

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You don't need a parser for that. Groups require group effort in order to run efficient, and you've played long enough to know when this is/isn't happening. When a group gets a clear with relative ease, you can be assured that you and your party are performing optimally, and the reverse is true as well. A parser puts a number on your performance, and this number doesn't tell everything. A parser helps a player improve very much the same way a step counter helps a person lose weight.

If you want to know how well you did/are doing, I recommend taking a video and then view it. You will see everything you did well, along with your mistakes, and things you can improve on. You will be able to see the performances of your party as well. If your DPS is down because the tank spun the boss, the video will show that. A personal parser will not.

I don't really play DPS jobs and definitely don't raid with them, so I know it is difficult for me to relate to the numbers obsession. I still care about causing as much damage as possible when doing DPS of any kind, and I know that if I am well-geared and optimizing rotations, I am meeting my own DPS requirements for the instance. If I looked at parser results afterwards, it would only confirm what I already know.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

-snip-

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Quick sidenote: not a feature of any parser itself (that I know of anyway), FFLogs (besides being a leaderboard of sorts) does give you all sorts of secondary data like "DoT Uptime", "% of Total Damage X Ability Did", "Damage Taken That Was Avoidable" etc which are also useful review tools made possible only by parsing the data of the fight.

Static leader uploaded all the time back when I ran in one in Midas and it was very helpful review info.

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Originally Posted by poffo

Come on now, give us a damm in game dam. and healing meter. Just make it so it cant be postet if you are scared of a salt flood. Its so annoying and almost game breaking that your game dont supply this.

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Firstly, the swear word is spelled 'damn'. That will help make the post more understandable.

Secondly, NO. Meters are influenced by gear as well as skill. I'm in favour of a pseudo-parser that rates a character's performance in a 'red light, yellow light, green light' fashion, assessing how effectively they're using their abilities. That isn't influenced by gear. Nothing approaching a regular parser would be a good idea, though.

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Originally Posted by Vidu

They're making it pretty clear each time the topic gets brought up that they dont want it and wont introduce it. At this point you're not better than a child asking if you can finally have a dog after your parents said "No, because daddy is allergic"

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My parents have 3 cats even though I'm allergic, it can happen.

To be honest, we'll never see anything added. They gave us a log file to parse ourselves. Its it's purpose, you just have to code or download a program to make it happen. There's a few out there. Google them.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

2.5 Data Mining. You may not intercept, mine or otherwise collect information from the Game using unauthorized third party software.

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There isn't a parser that can do that with FFXIV.

The game outputs a log into your Documents folder in the form of a .txt file. That file can be read by another computer, on another network (if you allow permissions in Windows), while your account is inactive, and FFXIV is uninstalled. By a program that uses an algorithm to make a comparison.

1. That means it is not data mining. Which involves breaking into installed encrypted or obfuscated files or by sniffing IP packets.
2. That also means there is no means to detect (without a felonious root kit in involved machines) the fact that the file was read.

EULA/TOS/CoC doesn't apply to what you said. This has been proven multiple times.

The only things you cannot do, is show someone their damage then say its too low and then take a negative action against them for it, if they joined via Duty Finder. Or name and shame them in a public channel for it, or on the forums (different set of rules governs the forums and goes off this topic). That's it.

You are allowed to remove them from Free Companies, Statics, Premades, and all outside game community type social media things (which you could do for any reason at all). This happens all the time.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

There isn't a parser that can do that with FFXIV.

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Not arguing there are parsers that use the log, just letting you know one of the major ones does read from memory and can look at network data (to increase speed/accuracy and amount of possible data points to pull from).

It also happens to be one with a timeline ability so it can begin to look a lot like a DBM addon, increasing player awareness and actually (on an average generic level) increase player capability. (Call out specific moves on screen, remind you of your abilities on cooldown, etc - nothing super cheaty but also DBM wasn't super cheaty either it just offered and enhanced an awareness people normally didnt have so easily).

Also we're both aware on Yoshida's stance and what not, so I'm not screaming "NOOOOOo" lol. I think we're on the same page on what should happen with parsers.

While I understand people's concern against them I don't really believe some of the reasons against it are real (although again, I respect the concerns raised). Like "that community is so bad and this one is so great, because parsers/not parsers" except that's all very anecdotal and if we use that then my personal experience in heavy raiding scene never matches up to their example, I find about the same amount of bad and great/amazing people. Parser in my old heavy raiding experience = life and stress saver, no point to argue and blindly grope about, everyone gets around the table and talks about the issues and to add if you're in a situation where someone is abusing then you leave and block them, its probably not the tool but them as a person that's the issue - ultimately it is always the person and not the tool that's the issue (and in this case equipping a mean person with truth only changes their meanness from nothing to either provable wrong, or at least somewhat useful rude criticism lol). (This paragraph wasn't really directed at you :P)

Of course now in FFXIV I'm super casual so in this case IF they allowed it I'd just make sure I'm not doing awfully :D.

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Originally Posted by ShinMetsu

Those things would make me strongly consider dropping ffxiv, personal opinion.

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Less features is a good thing? I shouldn't be too surprised, I guess. This is the same community that I have seen kick players for playing too well in a dungeon.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

Less features is a good thing? I shouldn't be too surprised, I guess. This is the same community that I have seen kick players for playing too well in a dungeon.

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3rd party parser is capable of giving call outs already.
Call outs to mechanics, players skills like (Trick attack, Hypercharge, Warrior Pacification..)
It can even call out players names if they have a certain buff/debuff. I don't think you need more than that.


About having an in game parse, SE provided SSS instead. It is a good feature but still needs to provide the player with more information.
Would be nice to have a window pop after 3 minutes or clearning it showing:

Time left: --:--
Crit rate: --%
Misses: --

And maybe show your previous try or best time.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

There isn't a parser that can do that with FFXIV.

The game outputs a log into your Documents folder in the form of a .txt file. That file can be read by another computer, on another network (if you allow permissions in Windows), while your account is inactive, and FFXIV is uninstalled. By a program that uses an algorithm to make a comparison.

1. That means it is not data mining. Which involves breaking into installed encrypted or obfuscated files or by sniffing IP packets.
2. That also means there is no means to detect (without a felonious root kit in involved machines) the fact that the file was read.

EULA/TOS/CoC doesn't apply to what you said. This has been proven multiple times.

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This is patently untrue. There are fight playback tools that show detail down to every party member's and enemy's position at each fraction of a second of a fight. This is not information stored in any log; it's a clear case of someone accessing memory addresses or network packets that they shouldn't, and therefore a clear violation of the data mining clause.

I would like if at least SSS dummies told you damage numbers...