COMBAT NEEDS FIXING

I picked Bard and Machinist so I could move in combat.Im going to be talking about the open world here not dungeons or raids. Whenever I fight mobs I like to kite, the problem is even if I have kited behind the foe or Im at such a great distance that no way a melee attack can hit me I still get damaged. Its like the game is not recognizing that Ive even moved. Its actually spoiling the whole game for me. I also came across a boss yesterday in the Western Highlands that freezes u. Couldn't get out of the aoe as its to big and have no skills at all to help me. I had zero chance of surviving. Either don't have boss mechanics like that or give me a skill that helps me to survive. I've come from Gw2 where the combat is great and using my skills right I can survive any fight and not feel so completely helpless as in some fights in this game.

So you tried to solo an A rank Hunt without thinking? What about silence for his AoE? You have a move at close range that can force you back a long distance and can run out the way for alot of AoEs. If you're getting hit by their autos, you aren't far away enough. Halt their movement and make the distance. If you can't, maybe you just aren't meant to have it that easy. Kiting wasn't the intention in this game's design anyway, as you can survive all non-group stuff as any class.

Edit: Just noticed you're level 58, why were you attempting a level 60 boss anyway?

Pretty sure the boss you're referring to with the "freeze" needs to be silenced or stunned to avoid that attack. Bard and Machinist both have attacks for that.

But combat's not broken. It's just designed differently because of the trinity system that FFXIV strictly adheres to -- soloing an at-level boss as a DPS is something that is likely not going to work out too well (unless you count having your Chocobo companion as soloing too, and even then it really depends). And besides, once you hit level 52, you won't really be kiting as BRD/MCH anyway, due to Wanderer's Minuet/Gauss Barrel turning you into a bow/gun mage. And there's the fact that if you kite a mob too far, it just becomes invulnerable and resets to its original position anyway. Basically, FFXIV wasn't built with kiting in mind very much. I guess you can sort of kite them in a circle, but you're still going to take some hits, as you've noticed. It's unfortunate that your preferred playstyle doesn't really work that well, but it's a question of design more than a question of combat being "broken" or not.

TL;DR: the game isn't GW2, please don't expect them to play the same.

GW2 has it's issues though and I assume that's why you're here. Dragoon is probably your job for your particular requirements. It has a large backwards jump that will help you get out of large AoE circles, and Spineshatter Dive will let you close in quickly, while Jump is your attack + retreat (kind of, it just resets you back at your original position).

As for normal enemies outside of duties you should be able to fight most at range without them getting an attack on you. Enemies are quicker to attack in XIV than they are in GW2. Basic attacks aren't telegraphed, so you have to already be out of the way of those basic attacks in order to avoid them. If you're a far enough distance away, they won't be able to attack you, and you'll be able to shoot them forever. I've accomplished a few things like this in cases where I otherwise would have died, by simply running around and shooting the foes right behind me.

You tried to solo a mob thats supposed to be fought by a group of level 60 players on your bard that isnt even level 60 yet? Combat would have needed fixing if you actually suceeded...

That might sound cheap but: This isnt GW2 and this game works differently. I've heard many times that the combat in this game is very slow compared to other MMOs out there, but I never had trouble with that. Addiotionally: Open world mpbs are so easy and so much not a threat at all that I never had trouble with them either. The game gives you quite a few skills to help you survive - stuns, silence, repelling shot on bard... second wind (a selfheal you can cross class from puglist) to heal yourself... having your chocobo out to help you can... well, help aswell.
You need to be kinda "stupid" to die to open world mobs - either by ot using your skills correctly or by biting more than you can chew (may it be pulling to many mobs or pulling a mob thats simply to strong for you by design)

Mobs are also inherently weaker in GW2 since there are no "tanks". The game is set up differently.

You mean GW2 where everyone is OP and the game is super easy due to everyone seemingly being invincible. Yes I am angry at GW2. But in all seriousness. This is FFXIV, you are not unstoppable here.

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Originally Posted by Derio

You mean GW2 where everyone is OP and the game is super easy due to everyone seemingly being invincible. Yes I am angry at GW2. But in all seriousness. This is FFXIV, you are not unstoppable here.

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Instead of comparing it to GW2 you should have learned your skills by now as others have mentioned. Silence/Stun both available on BRD as well as MCH would have helped immensely. You will have to press more than 2 buttons compared too GW2 and you will have to step out of aoe's except SCH and WAR lol. Reading your complaint is actually spoiling the whole forum for me, and it will get worse at level 60 since BRD & MCH won't be able to kite much anymore but maybe GW2 would be a better match for you.

While i do agree with what people say here, It's an A Rank supposed to be handled by at least 4 people probably.
And the combat is different from some other games, we do have Tank, DPS and Healers.

But there is something that has always been bothering me, it's this

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Originally Posted by Nardiamaple

feel so completely helpless as in some fights in this game.

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You really are helpless in fights.
There is no way to make up for difficulty of a monster by skill.

Sure, you can dodge AoEs. You can stun, some classes can heal themselves, but those are not the classes i'm talking about. I know WAR is a solo machine.
But as a NIN or MNK, what are you gonna do? It becomes a simple "Who gets the other's HP to 0 first".
I often wish there was a way to actually avoid damage by skillful play.

https://ffxiv.consolegameswiki.com/wiki/The_Hunt

Please look stuff up about the hunt before complaining about combat. You're still new to the game. Many others have been playing for years.

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Originally Posted by ShinMetsu

But as a NIN or MNK, what are you gonna do?

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Second Wind, Potions, Buffs, Debuffs, Dodging AoEs is plenty enough to solo anything that doesn't require a group. Everything that isn't group based is soloable by any Job.

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Originally Posted by Settiesama

Second Wind, Potions, Buffs, Debuffs, Dodging AoEs is plenty enough to solo anything that doesn't require a group. Everything that isn't group based is soloable by any Job.

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Yes, and then people will do their anima and have to solo boss fates and have a really bad time regardless of how many potions they got.

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Originally Posted by ShinMetsu

Yes, and then people will do their anima and have to solo boss fates and have a really bad time regardless of how many potions they got.

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There are many, many FATEs that have pure fodder that are soloable, you don't have to bite off more than you can chew.

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Originally Posted by Settiesama

There are many, many FATEs that have pure fodder that are soloable, you don't have to bite off more than you can chew.

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Depends on what the boss is. Bosses with telegraph attacks are easily beat and do significantly less damage overtime. Bosses who only can auto-attack and use their "OGCD" attack(Archers, PGLs, Deer, Bugs, etc) nonstop are 3x more dangerous due to just how the game is made really.

Also casters(imps, gelatos, sprites) are super strong because they cast non-stop.

Those 2 categories of enemies are fights you sometimes just can't win no matter what.

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Originally Posted by Settiesama

There are many, many FATEs that have pure fodder that are soloable, you don't have to bite off more than you can chew.

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Well damn, i like to challenge myself. Now what?
Now i summon my chocobo and stand there getting smacked in the face and eating sh** so f***ing hard while my chocobo squeezes out every last choco cure he can.
Because there is no way to avoid incoming damage besides popping cooldowns.
The closest thing we've got to active mitigation is probably WAR's Inner Beast.

And there is something frustrating about not being able to do anything about incoming damage and just having to eat it all.

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Originally Posted by ShinMetsu

Well damn, i like to challenge myself. Now what?
Now i summon my chocobo and stand there getting smacked in the face and eating sh** so f***ing hard while my chocobo squeezes out every last choco cure he can.
Because there is no way to avoid incoming damage besides popping cooldowns.
The closest thing we've got to active mitigation is probably WAR's Inner Beast.

And there is something frustrating about not being able to do anything about incoming damage and just having to eat it all.

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You make it sound like you want to eliminate the need of tanks and just have every job be able to endure all the damage. If you need someone to help you, then you shouldn't be trying to solo it. Only solo what you can. Test yourself sure if you want, but don't complain about the way the game is if you lose. FATEs with those kinds of bosses were designed with multiple people going at it in mind, they have plenty of others for soloers. Hunts A and S were designed for parties. All other open world fodder is soloable by everything, and if you still can't win, then you need to look at your gear or usage of skills.

No, i don't think the combat needs to be 'fixed'.
I'm just saying i can relate and find it to be frustrating at times too, instead of bashing on the OP.
And that he is right, we are pretty helpless when it comes to incoming damage.

It's a difficult issue to fix without breaking gameplay.
If they can do it, I'm all for it.

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Originally Posted by ShinMetsu

No, i don't think the combat needs to be 'fixed'.
I'm just saying i can relate and find it to be frustrating at times too, instead of bashing on the OP.
And that he is right, we are pretty helpless when it comes to incoming damage.

It's a difficult issue to fix without breaking gameplay.
If they can do it, I'm all for it.

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You can't fix what ain't broken, there is nothing wrong with it. It's the way the game is, and it was the same way in XI. You can keep out of range if you're good enough with your skills on a ranged Job, but not against something you're not meant to solo in the first place.

i really dont like the combat system in GW2 , every dungeon run feels like a big messed up thing with everyone jumping around like mad with no group play at all ^^

Its why i play ffxiv coz i prefer trinity system and people working together , rather then doing theyre own thing ^^

O_o lvl 58 vs a lvl 60 A rank....not sure what you expected. Blunt arrow on bard can stop the giant aoe and maybe head graze (not 100% sure on that one) from machinist. Not that either of those were really going to help loads with just your lonesome going up against Mirka. If you weren't familiar with hunts before that try to think of it as a lesson learned. If you find a mob like that again try giving a shout and/or try finding a good hunt linkshell.

As far as combat needing an overhaul it is working as intended and isn't really in need of fixing imho.

Yes let's make all kinds of damage unavoidable so that tanks and healers aren't needed ever. Surely this will be a great decision after 3 years of keeping the trinity system!

-this isn't Gw2 intensifies-
LUL lv58 squishy bard vs lv60 A rank
10/10 complaint.

Just to add a quick anekdote: I once helped a level 20-something arcanist with the B-rank in western LN - they were new, didnt know what kind of mob that was but wanted to kill it because it looked cute... I made a careful and safe retreat afterwards, hoping they wouldnt consider my character or me helping cute...

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Originally Posted by Nardiamaple

I picked Bard and Machinist so I could move in combat.

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The kiting playstyle was never really used outside of Everquest and GuildWars 2. In some cases you can kite mobs to avoid specials in FFXIV. But mobs have this pesky long range autoattack that will whittle you down over time. As others said, the trinity reigns supreme. Trying to kite in open world will likely cause mobs to leash if you go too far.

In EQ, you can kite mobs over.. well the entire zone if you wish. Bards are king at that. Followed by Druids and Wizards, and then Rangers get stupidly good at it after getting Vinelash Cascade to AoE root in a 100ft (that is NOT an exaggeration) line in front of them.

Alternatively you can spec your Chocobo to tank for you. You might have mixed results with that.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

The kiting playstyle was never really used outside of Everquest and GuildWars 2.

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FFXI as well had a very strong kiting playstyle which allowed a lot of jobs to solo things they shouldn't of been able to, especially when they found a bit of environment to limit the mobs movement. Rdm was the kiting king in the older days

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Originally Posted by Nardiamaple

I've come from Gw2 where the combat is great and using my skills right I can survive any fight and not feel so completely helpless as in some fights in this game.

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GW2 is a good game, I like it a lot for its soloability, but it's an easier game to play when it comes to boss fights than FFXIV or some others, due in part to the lack of the 'trinity' in the original design (and only partially changed in HoT) as others have mentioned, in GW2 all classes can do everything battle-wise they only differ in how they do it which is far from the case in FFXIV etc.

Unfortunately lots of boss class enemies require you to form parties of players and gang up on them. You never can actually become a solo unit like you can in other games.

Game is held back by the trinity.

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Originally Posted by Pintsized

[...] due in part to the lack of the 'trinity' in the original design [...]

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I really wish people would stop propagating that lie. It's getting tiresome.

The trinity has nothing to do with difficulty. The vast majority of difficulty in games is achieved not by tank&spank, but rather via mechanics, which are attacks that completely ignore that there's a tank that's supposed to focus all attacks on him and instead attack the entire group regardless of the tank. All mechanics that make DPS do something - Stack, Spread, Divebombs, telegraphed/vector based attacks, add priority, voltage, hiding behind pillars, gaze attacks, tethers, puddle/add positioning, soaking orbs and all their various deviations... none of these mechanics need the trinity, because they all function perfectly fine in any non-trinity game if you remove the arbitrary damage you get even when you do them the right way. And they are what make fights challenging.

Conversely, all mechanics that require a tank or healer to function are mechanics that nobody except the tanks and healers interact with, they're self-contained and exist only so that people don't eschew tanks/healers. Tank busters, raid wide AoEs and pretty much every large chunk of unavoidable damage is in this group. These mechanics are primarily gear checks, with some of them (like prey) having a timing component.

The trinity has nothing to do with how easy or hard a game is. Combat design decides that.

I know how you feel.

I tried soloing T13 as MIN and each time I get to the P3 Just before Tetra flare my MIN dies to Terra Flare Each and every single time! This games combat is broken beyond repair that not even a LV60 craft class can fix it.

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Originally Posted by Martin_Arcainess

Your signature rule of tanking.

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I think number 3 is correct only before you pull anything. If you have pulled and you want the others to stay behind your back, some enemies will cleave and kill them. I remind others when that happens, especially healers because they really want to stick with you, body-to-body if possible. So I guess you could say, others should follow behind you before pulling.

Otherwise, I think they're all correct.


OP: Please don't blame the system without proving a valid point, without comparing it to other systems. FF14's battle system is not faulty but it just leaves so much else to be desired. If you like the other system better, that means you have an opinion and a suggestion to change an aspect of the system to your liking. You can make a suggestion, no problem, but to just blatantly blame the system in itself as faulty just because you can't tank as a DPS? You're playing the game wrong, mate.

Another thing that must be fixed is OP's caps lock key.

You should try Palace of the Dead solo. You get to utilize many tools which usually aren't needed in dungeons and raids and learn more about what your class/job can do.

I had a lot of fun with it as a Summoner and I hear people have done it as an Archer/Bard too. Just make sure your Aetherpool armor and weapon are always a higher number than the upcoming boss floor.

Sorry to say this, but it's not the combat system at fault here. I've played both FFXIV and GW2 for years, and I can say that they're very different games altogether. In GW2, soloing anything that does not have a hard enrage timer is possible, since the combat is designed in a way that allows you to sustain yourself forever under set circumstances. FFXIV, however, is a more traditional MMORPG with a trinity system in place; don't expect to just casually kill high-ranking hunt monsters without the help of others.

Soloing a lot of things (trials, dungeons, hunts, Palace of the Dead, old raids) is possible in this game, but it generally takes a lot more preparation and knowledge than in GW2 that was designed in a way that supports solo play. It is also often restricted to specific roles being more succesful at this than the others; don't expect to be able to solo kill everything on the class of your choice because another class can do it.

Tl;dr different games, different rules. Find your own way to enjoy the game, but don't expect all the games to abide by the same rules.