Something Needs to be done about turbo-crafting

I am on the way to getting my 3rd 50 craft and I'm sick of seeing dozens of people sitting around town crafting while AFK with means of either a turbo controller or an application. I appreciate that SE wanted to make it less troublesome to craft but at this point it is no better then allowing botting. Crafting was a pain in the ass in XI and should be difficult to get to 50, not given away if you have enough gil to buy a bunch of materials then leave the house.

I'm not saying this because I feel left out by not having a controller that is capable of doing this because I do have access to one. I choose to craft and play the game as it was meant to be played.

I think SE's original objective to make crafting more interactive has not had the desired results.

If turbo-crafting / hitting the same button can reach the higher echelons without varying up the tactics, the crafting system either needs to be simplified / automated / shortened. Or become more responsive, interactive, and tactical.

Considering SE's current presented plan, gatherers and crafters may receive minor adjustments, but not as many adjustments as combat.

If it's really such a concern for you, it sounds to me like you are just punishing yourself. SE hasn't banned botters or automated-enter-spammers in this game ever, and frankly I'm surprised they haven't constructed an ingame auto-crafter for everyone. I still think they will eventually, assuming they don't change the crafting system drastically. But for the time being you either have to stop whining and get over it, or join them.

And you know these people are afk how? They could easily be watching netflix and spamming enter. I don't understand why everyone assumes the mass population are using bots.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Intense

I am on the way to getting my 3rd 50 craft and I'm sick of seeing dozens of people sitting around town crafting while AFK with means of either a turbo controller or an application. I appreciate that SE wanted to make it less troublesome to craft but at this point it is no better then allowing botting. Crafting was a pain in the ass in XI and should be difficult to get to 50, not given away if you have enough gil to buy a bunch of materials then leave the house.

I'm not saying this because I feel left out by not having a controller that is capable of doing this because I do have access to one. I choose to craft and play the game as it was meant to be played.

---

I personally think the crafting system is a bit tough to level, It's much easier to level up battle classes, so in my opinion square did it somewhat right. As for AFK crafters, I'm not sure if there is a quick solution that could fix this at the moment, theres lots of other elements of the game that need just as much work as crafting.

hmm... what do you think?

They enabled it so why would they need to change it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PrettyPrincess

They enabled it so why would they need to change it?

---

exactly, SE's time is better served elsewhere at the moment.

Theres NO point to the crafting system.

Its SLOW, ANNOYING, SLOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW, a horrible way to lose brain cells and hurt your thumb because you will honestly not use anything besides the first craft option if you are just ranking up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Irana

Theres NO point to the crafting system.

Its SLOW, ANNOYING, SLOWWWWWWWWWWWWWW, a horrible way to lose brain cells and hurt your thumb because you will honestly not use anything besides the first craft option if you are just ranking up.

---

yeah, to me it's an accomplishment that someone has 50 crafting.... Basically I don't have the patience for a craft skill thats high... but Kudos to anyone who can!

Quote:

---

1.20 -NEW-
EXP bonus based on synthesis quality -NEW-
Adjustment of EXP bonus based on target synthesis quality
-NEW-
EXP bonus amount to be displayed via the log

---

Let's hope it's significant enough of a deterrent.

They might as well revamp the crafting system (the grind and mass production part) to be automated like the user-customizable Gambit combat in FF12.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rentahamster

They might as well revamp the crafting system (the grind and mass production part) to be automated like the user-customizable Gambit combat in FF12.

---

I'm all for it if it makes my crafting experience more enjoyable lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by buritoslicer

I'm all for it if it makes my crafting experience more enjoyable lol.

---

I'd like to see a GUI where you can customize your crafting AI routines in order to discourage people to experiment and not just copy pasta everyone else's pattern.

It would be sort of like EVE Online's auto-skill system, except with more user input, resource investment, and player skill required to get it just right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rentahamster

I'd like to see a GUI where you can customize your crafting AI routines in order to discourage people to experiment and not just copy pasta everyone else's pattern.

It would be sort of like EVE Online's auto-skill system, except with more user input, resource investment, and player skill required to get it just right.

---

To be honest, I'd rather crafting be changed to be more interactive instead of streamlined like in the manner you posted. If they're going to streamline it, they should streamline it the way it is done in SWTOR and Skyrim. Them toning down the ridiculous recipes was a start. In those games, when you hit the button to craft an item, the item is instantly crafted. Of course, this may "cheapen" crafting to make it more like a secondary trait than a job, but we've quickly come to learn that the way they implemented the crafting system was so flawed it drove off players during the first couple months of XIV's release.

If they're not going to streamline crafting, I definitely agree with Fiosha - they need to find some way to make crafting more interactive. Make it more of a mini game than a "press enter to win" game. I wish I could offer suggestions on what could be done for that, but I'm coming up blank at the moment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bahn

To be honest, I'd rather crafting be changed to be more interactive instead of streamlined like in the manner you posted. If they're going to streamline it, they should streamline it the way it is done in SWTOR and Skyrim. Them toning down the ridiculous recipes was a start. In those games, when you hit the button to craft an item, the item is instantly crafted. Of course, this may "cheapen" crafting to make it more like a secondary trait than a job, but we've quickly come to learn that the way they implemented the crafting system was so flawed it drove off players during the first couple months of XIV's release.

If they're not going to streamline crafting, I definitely agree with Fiosha - they need to find some way to make crafting more interactive. Make it more of a mini game than a "press enter to win" game. I wish I could offer suggestions on what could be done for that, but I'm coming up blank at the moment.

---

Oh of course. This is just one of the many different ways they can approach the issue, and one of the many different ways that I've suggested over the year. In this case in particular, I'm just thinking about how they can separate the grind from the actual meaty stuff that matters.

HQing would still require manual input.

No difference between watching a movie/anime/tvshow while pressing enter, or turbo crafting, except for one makes your hand hurt. Get over it.

It's not their fault. FFXIV crafting is the most boring most tedious crafting system I ever seen in any MMORPG. Why does it take an entire 30 seconds to finish through 1 crafting? It just insane when you need to do that 100 times to level through. People will just fall asleep halfway.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Darkrose

People will just fall asleep halfway.

---

That's exactly my problem every time I try to start a crafting session, no joking.
I'd really love crafting to be changed into a system that needs more attention by the player and which is more challenging. I see no use in doing something else while repeatedly pressing one button, sorry, that's not entertaining to me.
If I wanted to watch a movie e.g. I'd do that instead of playing FFXIV, rather than watching it just because I'd like to rank up classes which are a pain to play imo. I just wish crafting to be more fun so there's no need to seek another activity along the way. I'd like to be able to fully concentrate on playing the game instead.
Just my 2 cents.

Grind is a grind is a grind. SE just needs to hide that fact in crafting through the idea of fun. To be fair, there are a few people that believe crafting is fun as it is. For me - meh... Depends on what mood I am in. I can tell you right now that once I got my weaver to 50 I have not felt the inclination to raise another craft. I worked on goldsmith a bit but I decided I would rather go tumble off the Himalayas head first at break neck speed then pick up another crafting class. I love the idea of crafting - what SE has does not return my love sadly. lol

I think Vanguard's system was by far the best crafting system I had seen. I am sure others would disagree, which is alright. =)

Don't worry about the turbo level crafters. Just do your own thing and go about your business.

I discovered that my gamepad can be mashed down nicely underneath the weight of the older Playstation 2 model. Now it just needs to be USB-powered... (and with a turbo-feature, aw man that sounds like a new gamepad!)

In the spirit of honest gaming Intense, I whole-heartedly agree.
Then I look at those Market Ward prices... *slips the new gamepad under the PS2, but runs out of shards after 5 minutes... that's like four crafts isn't it?*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rentahamster

I'd like to see a GUI where you can customize your crafting AI routines in order to discourage people to experiment and not just copy pasta everyone else's pattern.

It would be sort of like EVE Online's auto-skill system, except with more user input, resource investment, and player skill required to get it just right.

---

This is a neat concept I think.

Perhaps as level increases, you are allowed additional gambits/tactical slots.

Conditions: white, yellow, red, flashing, unstable (element)
Perform: standard, rapid, bold, wait, ability

With adjustments to abilities as needed.

Just entertaining it a little.

If crafting was actually fun to do, people wouldn't feel the need to automate it. This only highlights how poorly thought out crafting in this game is. Either make the "mini game" fun to do, or remove it.

So.. now we're talking about it being acceptable for their to be an in-game automated craft feature?

I had an idea... a long time ago... back before I knew the FFXIV forums to be a place that crucified players for having new ideas :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fiosha_Maureiba

I discovered that my gamepad can be mashed down nicely underneath the weight of the older Playstation 2 model. Now it just needs to be USB-powered... (and with a turbo-feature, aw man that sounds like a new gamepad!)

---

There are many good Playstation 2 pad to USB converters out there. There's a good series of them called the Super Dual Box Pro/Super Joybox Pro by Mayflash. You'll have to get them off eBay, but they come with a VERY solid set of drivers that allow you to customize button mapping on the controller. It supports full analog sticks and vibration function too. The driver also supports turbo by default. If the driver can't do it, you can also use a freeware utility called Joy2Key that will allow you to map a button to a key (this would be Enter) and have it auto-turbofire as long as the button is held/taped down. Joy2Key I think uses some form of DirectInput to allow you to directly send keystrokes to the game, regardless of the game that's played. Lots of people use Joy2Key so that they can use their gamepad with games that have no native gamepad support.

Quote:

---

In the spirit of honest gaming Intense, I whole-heartedly agree.
Then I look at those Market Ward prices... *slips the new gamepad under the PS2, but runs out of shards after 5 minutes... that's like four crafts isn't it?*

---

I don't know about you, but shards are very easy to attain nowadays simply by leveling and doing levequests. I have more shards than I know what to do with since I hardly craft-grind (all my craft leveling is done through levequests).

if there dam crafting system wasnt based off claw machine logic it would be fine. spending $4-5 to get one toy. is just dumb. and it make ppl charge way to much for low lvl gear. and dow lvls fly by so quick that no hardly buys low-mid lvl gear why waste money on it when you can get 3 dow jobs to lvl 50 ina month or way less. make crafting more then just spamming enter.and make it so its not so dam random and yes its random at lvl44 wvr i botched cotton thread twice ina row wtf its like a lvl20 synth.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bahn

There are many good Playstation 2 pad to USB converters out there. There's a good series of them called the Super Dual Box Pro/Super Joybox Pro by Mayflash. You'll have to get them off eBay, but they come with a VERY solid set of drivers that allow you to customize button mapping on the controller. It supports full analog sticks and vibration function too. The driver also supports turbo by default. If the driver can't do it, you can also use a freeware utility called Joy2Key that will allow you to map a button to a key (this would be Enter) and have it auto-turbofire as long as the button is held/taped down. Joy2Key I think uses some form of DirectInput to allow you to directly send keystrokes to the game, regardless of the game that's played. Lots of people use Joy2Key so that they can use their gamepad with games that have no native gamepad support.



I don't know about you, but shards are very easy to attain nowadays simply by leveling and doing levequests. I have more shards than I know what to do with since I hardly craft-grind (all my craft leveling is done through levequests).

---

Oh, I think I meant the prices of crafted goods. They're high enough that I'm thinking, "I would rather level up a craft than pay THAT price."

I also haven't craft grinded for a good long while. I ran out of shards a lot before when I used to and didn't quite make the gil to buy them off retainers. Traded a lot of shards and crystals that weren't relevant to leatherworking back then to get what I needed.

I'm sure if I go off on a shard tangent for the desired shard, I would be fine. The new recipes are far more shard efficient than they used to and leves are delicious.

i was called a cheat bot the other day on my armour, not everyone crafting is boting maybe some not all

well, they are doing something now: getting a high score = getting high exp, meaning spamming = lower exp

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Intense

I am on the way to getting my 3rd 50 craft and I'm sick of seeing dozens of people sitting around town crafting while AFK with means of either a turbo controller or an application. I appreciate that SE wanted to make it less troublesome to craft but at this point it is no better then allowing botting. Crafting was a pain in the ass in XI and should be difficult to get to 50, not given away if you have enough gil to buy a bunch of materials then leave the house.

I'm not saying this because I feel left out by not having a controller that is capable of doing this because I do have access to one. I choose to craft and play the game as it was meant to be played.

---

Your point about turbo function to be considered botting, is hilarious. Because botting, for me and SE, is considered using a third party program.
Besides FFXIV is played on PC, wich means that we have resources ( keyboards and controllers ) with turbo function, so dont get upset with minor problems with turbo controllers or keyboards usage. They are there to be used and abused, and if SE allows it, why bother? Is it because you feel that the time you spended farming/crafting was all in vain? Or because you think that the people wich dont reply to your questions because they are crafting, and dont bother to answer you, they are in fact away?
Besides crafting is all about the fun of gathering, recipes info materials, research on the best way to lvl with low costs on gil and low costs on the materials, determinating a path on the recipes until we reach to a certain lvl so that we can move along with the next recipe. If you see people crafting and reaching more higher on level and faster than you, is because they do research and have alot of time to play.

So, why you play oldschool if you have a controller with turbo to play the game as it is meant to be played with?

Because he thinks sitting there hitting the button somehow makes him legit.

I went through 2 gamepads in this game already because I broke the X button. Never again.

Where's the Jingle All the Way reference? w

I've been doing a lot of reading up on this stuff, and I would like to reference this from another thread:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MANTASTIC

OP was a bit vague but I assume he's referring specifically to crafting bots? And/or turbo controller users?

Excuse the long post, and look for the bold for the tl;dr.

AFK-crafting in FF14 is a symptom several major problems of the crafting system itself. I'll do my best to explain my opinions on the big ones, starting with:
1) Absurd time invesment requirements. Not only does it take a solid minute or so to complete one item and begin the next, the game demands your attention every 3 seconds like a nagging 4 year old. I always imagine the crafting system to be one of those really annoying jersey shore-types that use the words "bro" and "alpha" unironically.

"Hey bro, how you wanna go about this?"
>Standard
"Ok, good choice bro."
...
"So, what will it be this time?"
>Standard
...
"Yo bro, wh-"
>Standard

I believe a system such as this would be serviceable(not anywhere near ideal, mind you) were it not for the...
2) Terrible rate of progression. Now we're cooking with ass. The snail-like pace of the crafting process compounds the abysmal rate of experience points. There is a huge gap between the average and optimal experience point rates between combat classes and crafter classes, but they are are on the same leveling curve!

100,000 experience points may breeze by in an entertaining group activity for my conjurer, but I'll be lucky(or rather, masochistic) if I make that much in 6 hours of straight crafting, especially towards the higher end. My current strategy for getting a craft from 48-50 is saving up leves and mashing them out. And it takes about 50-60 or so to do it.

So we know about how slow the process is, but that wouldn't itself explain why so very many people are tapin' dat x button down on their controllers. Well, there's a few(or more) problems left to discuss, let's continue with...
3) Random occurrences mitigate player decision-making/skill. Ah yes, RNG. FF14's crafting system is completely full of random outcomes at every turn. Any skill not named perfection will only increase the chances of a favorable outcome. An element can still destabilize on a white orb, and an action can still get a no-durability lost success on a red orb. This is further exacerbated by a...

4) Lack of information. An avid crafter who has done hours of research on the vastness of the internet only has a smidgeon of an idea of how the mechanics of crafting work. How is a new player supposed to know what the hell control, craftsmanship, and magic craftsmanship effect? Why are recipe levels kept hidden from players? Not to mention hidden background statistics, most notably "risk." Were it not for skills such as high return, we'd not even know to call it that.

Throw all of the above together, and we reach the final, most damnable aspect of FF14's crafting system:
5) Broken Effort to Reward Ratio. This refers to how putting for the effort to make advancement is rewarded. In a healthy effort to reward ratio, a player who makes larger contributions of skill to the task at hand is awarded proportionately to the act. Think about 14's crafting system with this in mind. The player who invests time into trying to maximize the result of a crating attempt may, at best, hope for an additional 50 or experience points, and a scaling (but always sub-40%?) chance of an HQ product. Now factor the additional time required for this.

So! What does all that mean, and how does it relate to bots and turbo controllers? Ask yourself the following:

"Why should I pay attention to crafting for long, long hours at a time, when mashing on standard synthesis is nearly as effective, and can be done while I do other, more interesting things?"

Truly, a difficult question to answer. I'll leave you with one final thing to roll around in those heads of yours.

The only way to prevent botting is to not design content that encourages it!
A mindless, grindy crafting system will inevitably be "played" by a mindless bot.

---

That's there for the read. Anyway...

I have an in-game friend who picked up craft-botting. I was disappointed. He's well-liked within the community, and it's not like he's some terrible person. Botting and turbo-crafting are extremely rampant. He said if everyone else was doing it he didn't see why he couldn't too. And that's a fair justification. I refused his offer to the botting program, yet now I feel like I've been left in the dust by him and the numerous others taking part in such activities.

Quote:

---

1.20 -NEW-
EXP bonus based on synthesis quality -NEW-
Adjustment of EXP bonus based on target synthesis quality
-NEW-
EXP bonus amount to be displayed via the log

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sephrick

Let's hope it's significant enough of a deterrent.

---

It's not, it sucks.

I was of the mind to not take part in the AFK crafting for a long time, but it becomes so incredibly dull and unbearable. I now have understanding of the people I once thought poorly of. As much as I want to feel like I earned my fifties, and as much as I am for obeying the rules of online games, I'm sorry, but this just calls for partaking in the civil disobedience going on. Honestly, if the game was meant to be played then why wasn't it designed to be?

I am conflicted, but if casting my lot with the many others crafting while not looking at the game is what it takes to put the wind to the developers backs in getting this pathetic system fixed so that the players won't suffer becoming bots themselves, and so that everyone can have an enjoyable crafting experience, then so be it.

My controller can do DirectInput.
As Scwarzenegger says, IT'S TURBO TIME!!

Leveling a craft is pretty much a horrible waste of time. There is no strategy involved when grinding and you're basically just going to go with standard every time. That's the problem. Even with the new exp bonus, there's not enough of an incentive to use a careful or rapid synth. I enjoy crafting when I'm trying to HQ something because I try to time the use of crafting abilities to maximize them and gain quality without loosing too much durability, but that doesn't translate to leveling in any meaningful way. And that's the real problem. If there was any REAL incentive (not just an extra 18exp) to use something other than standard when grinding, then things may be different, but since you'll accomplish a lot more pressing the same button over and over again, I can't fault people for doing that any way they can. I leveled all my crafts hitting the button on my controller watching movies on nextflix and hulu. I paid 0 attention to any single synth because there was no point to doing so.

Honestly I think they are moving in the right direction.

I think the XP bonus was a good idea, despite being deficient.

Now they need to add a Chain Bonus for Multiple Items in a row that break a specific quality.

Something to the Effect of.

Synth 1 = XP+Qual Bonus

Synth 2(Target 20 Qual) = XP+Qual+Chain(+20% XP)

Synth 3(Target 30 Qual) = XP+Qual+Chain(+30% XP)

Synth 4(Target 40 Qual) = XP+Qual+Chain(+40% XP)

...

Synth 10(Target 100 Qual) = XP+Qual+Chain(+100% XP)

Synth 11(Target 100 Qual) = XP+Qual+Chain(+100% XP)

This style system would require players to be in complete control to maximize gains and offer a significant reward for success. It would also prevent players from feeling forced to do recipes 8 levels over craft for remotely decent XP. On level Synth for 300 XP + 50% Qual Bonus = 450 +100% Chain 10 Bonus = 900 XP

This would be a system worth focusing on. It would also require minimal adjustments to thew current crafting system.

I have 3 Crafts at 50 right now and all the rest over 40. I've seen the times when you could just sit and pound on the "enter" key or the controller button and it would work fine, but not now. You can't just hit the button at equally spaced time intervals anymore like you use to be able to do. Any time that you do the same synth more than about 10 to 15 times or even if you repeat a leave an hour later, the game seems to pick up on it and starts doing pattern variants on you. I would suggest that the way crafting behaves now that a bot would be a very unuseful tool. I'm fairly competent and I struggle at times while grinding to not break the synth. Even relative easy ones that are at, or slightly below my level.

I'm not bothered either way. I play the game the way it's meant to be played. For those who don't, they're only punishing themselves. I guess different people play for different reasons. Mature players play for fun and enjoyment and nothing will get in the way of that. Kids play to gain an false identity and get caught up in make believe, some adults that are not qualified to be called mature players, incorporate cheating into their play to either accomplish the same thing a kid does or they play to profit off the stupidity of other players. Either way, it's all pretty entertaining to me. lol.

So, sit back, relax, enjoy the time you have to play and don't let yourself be that bothered by others.