Storytelling

I find MSQ harder to follow than any other game I've played for some reason. Partly it may be that its text heavy and the plot takes many twists and turns.

I have issues concentrating, but don't struggle with other games. Even earlier FF that don't have VA are fine, maybe because they are much more succinct, less wordy.

I have to say I don't like the story or characters, outside of the early HW, ishgard portion but maybe that's a seperate issue.

I don't mean to demand change or aimlessly whine I'm just curious if anyone else feels the same?

The only thing that bothered me were the amount of quests released between 2.0 and 3.0, but that's it.
I still found them very enjoyable and had no problems reading everything.
However, I do have to admit that Urianger's dialogue kinda annoyed me. Luckily I play with JP dub and don't have to listen to his English VA.

While playing the game I never had real issues to follow the story - however I'm currently making a Scrapbook of our HW-experience for a friend as birthday present and the last pages missing are the ones about the story. While I still had a general idea about how the story played out, I looked at the screens I took and was a lot of times like "...how did we get here? Why did we fought Bismarck again? Why did we go there?" - so I can kinda understand what you mean, there are many twists and turns and specially in the retrospective I'm taking right now I often feel like "This could have totally beeen skipped or streamlined" for several parts of the 3.0 story (not even talking about fillers here). I like that everything is there, dont missunderstand me, but I can totally see why it may seem difficult to follow from time to time

My biggest gripe for the story itself is infact how lengthy and needlessly "wordy" it is, making it hard to follow (for me) because it's not very smooth and hasn't a very natural flow.
I've been playing several rpgs lately and if there's one thing that I noticed when I read the dialogue, is that they're short (3 sentences for each character per turn), pretty straightforward (there's no purple prose...google it) and that the language used is fairly simple yet elegant (there's no olde English and when there is, it's not overly abundant).

I mean, I played Trails of Cold steel recently and that game is filled with exposition and is very dialogue heavy, but I NEVER felt tired of reading and the dialogues were very enjoyable too. And that game also lacks a lot of Voice acting, which is already not great but far better than FFXIV. In FFXIV, however, I tried recently to see a cutscene where Cid and someone was talking - I don't even remember who it was - and here it pops a para-worthy bubble of text...and all of it was unnecessary! He could've explained his stuff in 2 lines but nope, has to be over 5-10 lines of dialogue to say something! And then he spoke the same length!

If people like it, by all means, I have nothing against them but I just can't stand tons and tons of needless dialogue when it could've been summed up in two or three lines..

That's because they want to have story quests in every single level, making it very bloated and not having a good pacing. You have to read everything or risk skipping important parts, and there's a lot to read.

Also, instead of keeping story lines self-contained in their own sections/expansions, they want to make a huge, single story line. I've recently re played through the game and there was a lot of stuff that I forgot. It's cliff hanger after cliff hanger and the conclusion to said cliff hangers often takes several months to be released.

Meanwhile the main story from GW2 is still fresh in my mind because you only got story every 5 levels, making it just as long as it needs to be.

The old English makes dialogue too formal and unnecessarily long, if you compare it to other localizations you notice that the English version has way more text, for some people it makes the story hard to follow and this leads to this antipathy for the characters some people Feel.

The problem is not the story it's the localization ... but you will be bitten by Koji's fans if you complain too loud about it.

I have ADHD, so I know a thing or two about finding it difficult, if not impossible, to focus on things. I don't really experience a problem with the MSQ, which means it's doing an adequate job of being the most interesting thing going on whenever I'm doing it.

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Originally Posted by Renik

The old English makes dialogue too formal and unnecessarily long, if you compare it to other localizations you notice that the English version has way more text, for some people it makes the story hard to follow and this leads to this antipathy for the characters some people Feel.

The problem is not the story it's the localization ... but you will be bitten by Koji's fans if you complain too loud about it.

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It's faux early modern English. It's doubtful you would be able to read Old English.

I personally would rather them take the MSQ out and make a new game with it that is single player. No one would spend 15 a month to have a book sit on a bookshelf. What's the difference here? The MSQ is an obstacle to the real game.

I like playing a MMO with other players. You can't do that in the MSQ outside a few dungeons. And lets be honest, the story lovers hate that too. Why not give the solo'ers a solo game and groupers a group game?

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Originally Posted by Nixxe

It's faux early modern English. It's doubtful you would be able to read Old English.

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Oh sorry, I'm not even native, i just know that it resembles old English.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Why not give the solo'ers a solo game and groupers a group game?

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MMOs are about society in a vitual world not about being forced to play content with others, most soloers would take ofense about what you just said.

There needs to be some sort of depth for the characters and everything whats going on around in Eorzea , else it would be just some other copy/past story world with boring stuff in it ^^

I suggest taking ur time with the game and not rushing through it ^^

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

I personally would rather them take the MSQ out and make a new game with it that is single player. No one would spend 15 a month to have a book sit on a bookshelf. What's the difference here? The MSQ is an obstacle to the real game.

I like playing a MMO with other players. You can't do that in the MSQ outside a few dungeons. And lets be honest, the story lovers hate that too. Why not give the solo'ers a solo game and groupers a group game?

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Most of us play because it is a story driven game! I know that concept is so hard to take in. Theres a great many of other games on the market currently such as WoW, Rift, Tera, GW2, Black Desert and a bunch of others. Possibly those games will suit the needs of the many who complain about the story. Or better yet wait for that jump potion to come along and use one! BAM instant story complete!

On topic: I think some of the text per quest and story lines could use less lines but a lot of it is because it has substance. I enjoy the different text for how characters would speak it really brightens the game up. I wish most of it was voice acted though, maybe that would help a bit?

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Originally Posted by Renik

MMOs are about society in a vitual world not about being forced to play content with others, most soloers would take ofense about what you just said.

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Little hard to have a society when the game throws up an error because you're doing a quest in a group.

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Originally Posted by Kaethra

Little hard to have a society when the game throws up an error because you're doing a quest in a group.

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I think for that, if you're doing a quest as a group, it should allow them to join in, but scale the difficulty up significantly so you HAVE to work together. This should however in my opinion exclude Class/Job quests where duty is required (since it's about your personal understanding of the duty), but any main or side story quest that isn't locked to a certain class/job should be A-OK with the scaling.

Pretty much the opposite of me.
I love the story of this game and it's the main reason I play.
I don't find it hard to follow. I've never found the quests too wordy.

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Originally Posted by bass9020

Most of us play because it is a story driven game! I know that concept is so hard to take in.

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Not really: SWTOR is a story driven game just like ffxiv, only done better in basically every aspect of the storytelling part: better dialogue, better voice acting (even side quests), dialogue option (which sometimes changes the story) and while only a few expansions are united, you are free to take them at your own pace: for example I can directly jump to the KOTFE right away as soon as I have the right level, skipping the Hutt cartel or Shadow of Revan. Heck I can do the first expansion right at 50, even before finishing the main class story: the game will just warn me about spoilers.

Now whether the game itself is better or not that's for another topic (SWTOR is worse), but in terms of storytelling I consider it to be far superior than FFXIV.

Oh and I'm NOT a fan of Star Wars, so that's a plus for drawing non-fans like me!

I'm autistic and ADHD, and I can find the story easy to read and understand. I did not know what the heck was going on with FFXI's story, though. The way you did their dialogue was awful (well, it was an older game, too) because both story dialogue, player chat, and combat/battle dialogue was on the same window and with how the characters were presented, it was hard to know who was talking. I'd rather see the FFXIV Cid speak rather than the FFXI.

And oh yes, I went there.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

Not really: SWTOR is a story driven game just like ffxiv, only done better in basically every aspect of the storytelling part: better dialogue, better voice acting (even side quests), dialogue option (which sometimes changes the story) and while only a few expansions are united, you are free to take them at your own pace: for example I can directly jump to the KOTFE right away as soon as I have the right level, skipping the Hutt cartel or Shadow of Revan. Heck I can do the first expansion right at 50, even before finishing the main class story: the game will just warn me about spoilers.

Now whether the game itself is better or not that's for another topic (SWTOR is worse), but in terms of storytelling I consider it to be far superior than FFXIV.

Oh and I'm NOT a fan of Star Wars, so that's a plus for drawing non-fans like me!

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There are certainly some things SWTOR does better than FFXIV, but it has come at a price. Any semblance of class or faction flavor is gone right out of the story. You have very few chances to really feel like a Sith or your class, and it suffers from chosen one status even worse than FFXIV. While there is some variation in story and followers based on your decisions, it's still also very much on the rails and that feeling is very strong at many points in time when there's no reasonable way for my character to act in a similar manner to how it acted for the first 50 levels. To some degree this is expected, given what the story is, but they build in a lot of "wrong" choices the game lets you know repeatedly are wrong and kind of forces you in a certain direction (specifically a rather "gray" one), which undermines the value of your supposed choices. In some respects, that is worse than simply not having a choice in the first place.

Also, unless they changed it, the warning about starting new content isn't just that there are spoilers, but that you won't be able to complete your class quests if you haven't already done so.

I'd generally agree the voice acting is better, but it's hard not to be better than FFXIV after they switched to that new studio. I much preferred the ARR actors and many of the characters lost their sort of distinct flavor and identity. Merlwyb in particular was made worse by the change in voicing.

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Originally Posted by Nixxe

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To be fair I haven't played all expansions in a while, and I only did all of them once on my old Inquisitor when they came out (still had the old tree talent system!), however, I think you're talking of how if you join the KOTFE-KOTET chain you're basically going to abandon the rest. Again, I might be wrong because I did them LONG ago and only recently I've been going a third time, but skipping the previous expansion for going through eternal empire chain.

With that said, you're correct that game is still on rails but there's still one thing that SWTOR does correctly: it's your story. It's about you and your actions, your companions that YOU choose to relate with and while they're not exactly "open", the illusion is still well done.

You see, I highly dislike when the main character is not the main character (and feels like it's a trend with SE lately...but yet again my last FF was 12 so) and my avatar in this game is supposed to be the warrior of light of some sort (which I already hate: I feel like I'm some sort of hippy...I wanna join the enemy!), however I feel like I'm the errand boy/girl more than the actual hero. And even when it's not about fetching stuff, the scene is always about the secondary characters...ehm look, I hate to take it from a past mediocre final fantasy but Tidus said it best: "this is my story". It's fine to occasionally jump around to develop characters but what about me? I'm the hero, not them! And if they're so important to steal my scenes, why am I not playing AS them?

What I'm trying to say is, while SWTOR story is on rails despite the "choices" you have, I still felt like I was part of the bigger picture, while in FFXIV I did not. Yes I'm the chosen one, I'm the Wrath of the Emperor, I'm part of the Shadow Council, I'm the Outlander and it's pretty cheesy alright...but so is being the warrior of light. But while in SWTOR the story revolved around me due to my importance, in ffxiv I felt like I'm just being pulled back into the plot when it's convenient.

Granted, I haven't followed the story in a long while (basically since 2.1) so I might be totally wrong about this and the story might be great, but yet again why do I have to wait 40 hours of story to be good? Why can't it be good from the start?
But that's for another topic...

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

And even when it's not about fetching stuff, the scene is always about the secondary characters...ehm look, I hate to take it from a past mediocre final fantasy but Tidus said it best: "this is my story". It's fine to occasionally jump around to develop characters but what about me? I'm the hero, not them! And if they're so important to steal my scenes, why am I not playing AS them?

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Don't you want to protect your waifu?

http://i.imgur.com/Ydb4fzR.png

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

could've been summed up in two or three lines..

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Whereas I, on the other hand, tend to dislike the brevity that some games use - while they can convey the specific information in a few words or a couple sentences, I prefer the approach that feels more like a conversation...and conversations (whether we realize it or not) tend to end up on the wordy side (with exceptions, of course). Feels better when it comes to world-building and conveying a sense of personality from a character - longer dialog gives a chance for characteristics and personality quirks to shine through.

@OP - one thing I do to keep story beats fresh in my mind is re-read the quest summary in the quest journal. You get a fairly succinct description of a series of events, often several dozen minutes of cutscene, text, and gameplay condensed into a paragraph or three, presented in a clear fashion.

I dislike the story cause it's to complex in all the wrong ways.

Take FFXI, A bad guy appears, you set out to stop them. A lot of things go down, and you happen to kill the bad guy. And there was much rejoicing.

Now, lets redo these events in FFXIV. Instead of using force we try and "talk" with the maybe bad guy to see if we can come to terms with him and prevent a war. After that fails we try to understand his reasoning, slowly coming to question if maybe we aren't the bad guys here and he's in the right. After questioning our selves a bit on the matter one of the NPC's we're forced to like, even if that player didn't like them, takes a dirt nap for "reasons". And now you have the will to fight, but will forever question if anything you did was right all while adding even more PTSD and coping issues to our already mostly broken remains of a character.

FFXI: MMO story.
FFXIV: offline game/TV series story.

Sometimes simpler is better, IMHO.

*tosses 2 gil into the cup*

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Originally Posted by Renik

Oh sorry, I'm not even native, i just know that it resembles old English.

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Most of it, believe it or not, is modern formal English in structure with a tendency to use old words or old meanings of words...and it's that particular approach (meant to add a sense of authenticity to the setting..."Man that was epic!" wouldn't really work in what is supposed to be a medieval fantasy setting) that I think throws people. The "pirate" or Limsan dialect can also be tough to follow if you're not accustomed to it, and they liberally use old words and phrases there.

The faux early modern English is the harder (esp if not native to the language) to read way Urianger speaks...but he's actually meant to be tougher to understand and the impression he gives by using what others probably consider a haughty way of speaking is intentional.

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

better dialogue

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For a sci-fi setting. Different dialog types for different settings.

Also, the player character, while voiced, tended to repeat too many stock lines. Only so many times I wanted to hear my Sith Warrior say "They will tremble before me" or something like that every dozen conversations or so. Incredibly distracting after a while.

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Originally Posted by Ririta

Don't you want to protect your waifu?

http://i.imgur.com/Ydb4fzR.png

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If she's who I think it is, then nope. And dunno, dun care personally...but if you like her, more power to you.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

For a sci-fi setting. Different dialog types for different settings.

Also, the player character, while voiced, tended to repeat too many stock lines. Only so many times I wanted to hear my Sith Warrior say "They will tremble before me" or something like that every dozen conversations or so. Incredibly distracting after a while.

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And you're right but it's still better than waving the hand and to flapping your mouth like a fish (which is also another big issue with this game...I can understand anime, but 3D graphics?What's this, ME andromeda?).
Who is she/he, an italian wannabe with the moving hands? Or maybe I'm a Jedi Wannabe!
By the way I'm italian so the joke's on me. And yes, I speak while waving my hands. Like a Jedi!

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Originally Posted by Voltyblast

If she's who I think it is, then nope. And dunno, dun care personally...but if you like her, more power to you.

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It was a joke, I dislike her :(

They just killed off my hero and then try to force me to sympathise with a waifu...

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Originally Posted by Ririta

It was a joke, I dislike her :(

They just killed off my hero and then try to force me to sympathise with a waifu...

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In all honesty, my "husbando" is Cid...

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pu...s/cid_3184.png

Because you can't say no to that long mane of white hair and that sexy beard of his (and I'm a male so no homo!). Meanwhile, my sister called him Chuck Norris. Heh, I guess it's still cool. Although for females there's nobody that really picked my interest...I guess I liked Ulala but because she reminded me of Ulala from Space Channel 5, one of my all time favourite games.

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Originally Posted by AdventZero

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well u still have the option to just click through the dialogue :P

problem solved , while the rest of the players enjoys the dialogues and story ^^

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Originally Posted by Khemorex

well u still have the option to just click through the dialogue :P

problem solved , while the rest of the players enjoys the dialogues and story ^^

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not everyone enjoys boom boom bang bang hollywood storytelling , coz its very boring XD

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Originally Posted by Khemorex

not everyone enjoys boom boom bang bang hollywood storytelling , coz its very boring XD

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Who said boom boom bang bang? Oh right, you did. I'm talking more like Lord of the Rings level of storytelling here.

They didn't spend 70% of the last two movies focusing on the politics of Rohan and Gondor.

They didn't try to talk with Sauron to see if they could come to peace with him without waging war.

And they didn't spend the whole trilogy making Frodo question if destroying the one ring was the right thing to do, if maybe Sauron was in the right and he should give the ring back to him.

That's the kind of simple I think is better.

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Originally Posted by AdventZero

Take FFXI, A bad guy appears, you set out to stop them. A lot of things go down, and you happen to kill the bad guy. And there was much rejoicing.

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Something tells me that the "lot of things go down" that you just kind of glossed over here would end up putting a particular given story in FFXI closer to what you see in FFXIV, just presented in a less theme-park, please follow the dotted line fashion.

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Originally Posted by matteoxyz

the plot takes many twists and turns.

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Both ARR and HW followed similar lines, arguably each have three arcs:

1) a 'main story' if you like, ARR being the Garlean invasion and HW having the war with the dragons
2) a series of disjoint Primal fights with frankly very little connection between them
3) a side-story dealing with the Acians

1+3 could be considered parts of the same, the Primals are clearly unrelated and IMO simply there to provide the excuse for more instanced progression gating, I find these fights entirely pointless as far as the story they're running concurrently with.

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Originally Posted by Berethos

Something tells me that the "lot of things go down" that you just kind of glossed over here would end up putting a particular given story in FFXI closer to what you see in FFXIV, just presented in a less theme-park, please follow the dotted line fashion.

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I didn't detail FFXI's stories cause some of them are very, very long. Can look on this wiki page here if you want to read up on one: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Final_Fantasy_XI:_Chains_of_Promathia

Also, what I was mainly getting at wasn't the plot, but the reactions and actions the characters take to it. The plot isn't bad, but it feels like the characters drag their feet a bit to much at times. I can understand some, like when someone dies their going to feel a bit sad about it. But in other cases it just seems like problems could be avoided by acting more and thinking less.

A man who spends all his time thinking, and never doing, is a dreamer.

And a man who acts, but never thinks, is a fool.

What we need is a mix of the two. A man who thinks when he needs to, and acts when he needs to. FFXIV at the minute feels like 70% thinking, and 30% acting. I want it to be 50% thinking, and 50% acting.

To me, most of our interactions with vital NPCs become a lengthy, wordy, esoterical mess. There are characters that speak in rhymes, characters that speak in an Eorzean Shakespearen way, and characters who flat out make up their own dialect. Personally, I find the wording to be filler-esque, and quite honestly, I wish they added more bolded text (or colored) for key points.

The pacing from HW onwards is pretty great, but everything before that should really be trimmed down. It's one of the biggest barriers of entry for new players in this game.

I don't think there's anything wrong with Early Modern English. Shakespeare for example. But in this game it doesn't have a natural flow. Reading actual contemporary writings in older styles, it's lyrical, very succinct and.. beautiful, really.

I find it easy to follow, only two things are bad, in my opinion.

1. Patch 3.4 was a bit confusing, felt rushed and we were nuked with alot of information.
2. Pirate lingo

Kan E Senna's long winded, fake middle english paragraph over how she needs to dispense with the pleasantries made me want to slap her.
Unlike some folks, I'm not into simple conflicts in this game. Likely because I'm just not invested in the whole "Warrior of light" thing, as I attribute it to dogmatically following "the alliance" without question, instead of the "hear, feel, think" advice, which sounds a lot like deciding for ourselves . I hope for choice, true choice, instead of two lines describing about how little choice we have. :)