Wintrading Solo Q Feast

Hello fellow grievers and community who doesn't care.

Yes another useless post about PVP and yes alot f you don't care because you don't play it. But for the small community who has been enjoying PVP for a long time they are being affected by a disease called Wintrading.

So what is Wintrading you ask? Simple, loosing on purpose so your friend wins and gets ranked in Feast.

But how do you Wntrade you ask? SImple, just qeue healers and you will know for sure you won't be in same Team and faster/higher possibilty to be against each other.


Lately there are some notable amount of weird happenings. There is a certain healer which shall not be named, let's name him Healer A, who was weirdly always AFK during Feast Match. It could be ofcourse a DC or a real life matter. But every match? Now let's observe some more closely.

Healer A suddenly starts playing. Not terrible player but normal. And suddenly you win, so you Qeue again. Then you have Healer A again in your group. But now he is again AFK in the match.
After some observations by the PVP community on Discord we noticed he would only AFK during the match when a certain Healer was in the Party. We will call him Healer B.
After a whole day we came to the conclusion, that Healer A would only afk in matches against Healer B.

TD:LR Healer A is Afking, so Healer B can get a win and Rank fast through Season 4 Rankings.

The ToS states:

3.2 Disruption. You may not in any way disrupt or interfere with the Game experience of other players, including the disruption of Square Enix's computers and servers.

So why doesn't Square Enix do anything, it's clearly against their own User Agreement.


This is a commonly known problem, after every match players are sending reports to the GM's, but always end up getting a generic message. ' We are sorry for your grief and we are looking into it'.
But nothing happends, they are still playing, still trading.



I would hope SQ will start taking this seriously.

Unfortunately it happens, luckily it's still very early in the season

I think i encountered this healer a few times now. I offered a suggestion how to maybe lower that kind of problem a bit but only a few people seemed interested in solving this problem. I wonder why.

There's a lot of cheating goes on in PVP but it seems to be so ingrained that if you speak out against it you are likely to be the one who is vilified! That's why quite a lot of people aren't bothering with ranked Feast, it's just not a fair game much of the time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Culfinrandir

There's a lot of cheating goes on in PVP but it seems to be so ingrained that if you speak out against it you are likely to be the one who is vilified! That's why quite a lot of people aren't bothering with ranked Feast, it's just not a fair game much of the time.

---

Even without cheaters it's rarely a fair game due to the broken ass match making. A Gold+ healer vs an unranked, inexperienced healer is hardly a fair game.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Culfinrandir

There's a lot of cheating goes on in PVP but it seems to be so ingrained that if you speak out against it you are likely to be the one who is vilified!

---

Cheating has been a PvP tradition in FFXIV since Triple Triad tournaments. Same with Lord of Verminion tournaments. Well, it was part of early DoW/DoM PvP too.

Yoshi-P once said something on the matter...
http://www.novacrystallis.com/2014/0...naoki-yoshida/

Quote:

---

Nova Crystallis: How do you feel in regards to players win-trading in Duty Finder PvP?

Yoshida: If you see someone abusing this, feel free to report it. Yes it’s a concern that people are abusing the system, but we have to think why are people doing this? There are some people that really want to do PvP but every time they get in, their gear is not good enough to compete with their opponents, so the only way to get that gear is by winning. It creates this loop of wanting to play, but being unable to play and by using that method players can get up there.

We realize this is a problem, so in 2.3 we are adding new types of actions and things that ignore Morale so that these players have a better chance of getting up to that same level as the higher players. If this doesn’t work, we may have to look at ways of controlling this type of mini-abuse – we want to see what happens in 2.3 and go from there. Rather than banning them for this action, it’s better for us to find a method so players won’t do this, and everyone can have fun. That’s our job.

---

Now that's an oldie, huh? That one was from the morale days. In 2.3, they then added item level sync and cheating complaints plummeted - Riiight up until they introduced ranked.

I'm just waiting for them to follow that philosophy again. They can start with asking themselves what causes people to be so hostile in the Feast, do something about it and turn off the stupid chat ban. They'll most likely catch at least half the reason people cheat in the crossfire. Alas, I fear E-Sports ambitions are in the way.

I ask myself why players is wintrading?
To get the rewards with less effort...
I ask myself why players is hostile in a competition game ?
because loose mean loose of points and less chance to get the reward or be top 100.
it's easy to understand why players is doing this.
It's a competition so do we have to abolish a competition to make
players happy or punish the abuse ?
Because you can't fight players cheating in a competition, it's not the same with the pvp gear op problem it was easy to resolve this.
For any competition, breaking the rules should be punished, disqualified. There is not magical solution.

also i don't want to say cheating in the feast is the same as cheating in triple triade or lord of verminion because feast is seasonal, all the players trying to get in top10 or top 100 have will certainly play a lot of matches and make effort to get in top100. Let players cheating here ruin the effort of players playing for all the season.

There's a Drg that likes running towards enemy and feeds over and over again....

Healers got it easy with their Q's. I usually wait for about 10-23 mins for Q to pop in rank match but if i Q as a healer it pops in less than a minute... No more than 3 mins. The amount of games i can run as a healer gives me a higher chance to get a win. Just look at the top of the list.

They need to make Q instant for all not just for healers cause even for tanks it takes longer.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Mature

They need to make Q instant for all not just for healers cause even for tanks it takes longer.

---

...How do you think queues work? They can't just "make it instant". Literally queues take longer because there are far less healers queueing than there are other roles. You can't "make Q instant" without like, letting you enter the match with less than 4 people.

Do 3x3, tank and 2 dps vs tank and 2 dps, it will be funny as hell but the frustration level will raise to new heights

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kai_Lee

Do 3x3, tank and 2 dps vs tank and 2 dps, it will be funny as hell but the frustration level will raise to new heights

---

Hah! If they actually did that, can you imagine? High quality {Table Salt} {You Can Have This}

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stormfur

Hah! If they actually did that, can you imagine? High quality {Table Salt} {You Can Have This}

---

Dude, I thought we had an agreement that whenever we are match against each other you are going to lose on purpose? What happened to our win-trading agreement? Fail. :-(

{Thanks for the offer but I'll have to pass} {Have stuff to do, gotta go!} {pet} {Lalafell}

Burst Burst Burst

I'd be happy if healers disappeared. They have way too much power and influence on a match to be entrusted to random people. I can understand how being a good healer is by far the easiest way to get Top 100.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

I'd be happy if healers disappeared. They have way too much power and influence on a match to be entrusted to random people. I can understand how being a good healer is by far the easiest way to get Top 100.

---

Sorry but what you say is not true, actualy healer have power to buy time, but it's not the an easy way to get top 100, exept if SE let the players cheating in the ranking.
To me dps and healer have power influence, tank can have influence too, you can have the better healer in the world and loose anyway. Because you need a good group.
To be honest there is not easy way to rank
The better players with 60/100 ratio will rank up more easily because it like that when players is playing very good, players with 40/100 win ratio need at least 2 times the same amount of match to catch up. It's how its like since season 3.
And why make a pvp without healer would be a good idea, it don't make sense ? All the instance should be play by all the job

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kai_Lee

Do 3x3, tank and 2 dps vs tank and 2 dps, it will be funny as hell but the frustration level will raise to new heights

---

Actually one of the most exciting and less frustrating matches ive ever played in any Feast mode was an 8v8 where both sides didn't have any healers. You either carried your weight or got dead. No clutch benies to save you from your subpar dps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kensatsu

Sorry but what you say is not true, actualy healer have power to buy time, but it's not the an easy way to get top 100, exept if SE let the players cheating in the ranking.
To me dps and healer have power influence, tank can have influence too, you can have the better healer in the world and loose anyway. Because you need a good group.
To be honest there is not easy way to rank
....
And why make a pvp without healer would be a good idea, it don't make sense ? All the instance should be play by all the job

---

One factor that contributes to healers climb is their instant queues. By sheer numbers they have the opportunityto advance faster than any other job. They also have more chances to offset their loses by wins with not being burdened with long queue times. A healsr can get in 3 matches before a ranged gets 1.

its more acurate, even if healers is a little weak . they can make more matchs than other jobs and to catch up the ranking. it's not a easy factor but a queue factor.
Maybe SE should do something to make healer more appeling in 4.xx because right now it's the stressful and harder job to begin with in the feast 4vs4. Make the job more appeling would make faster queue for everyone i think.
it's not easier but you can play more in the feast with a healer, that's right.

Thank you all for posting in this thread and leaving thoughtful comments regarding win trading in PvP.

We absolutely understand the frustration that comes with players abusing queues to inflate ranking and denying other players competitive matches. This is a problem that we actively investigate and encourage any player who suspects win trading is taking place to report it to the GM team. To submit an in-game report to the GM team for win trading or any other concern, please open the system menu and select "Support Desk." In the Support Desk window, select the "Contact Us" tab and then "Report Harassment."

Please include as many details as possible to assist us in our investigations. Character names, worlds, dates and times are particularly helpful in allowing us to fully review any reported instance of win trading.

Thank you again for taking the time to participate in this discussion, and we'd like to wish you all the best of luck in your travels!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kensatsu

.

---

At my stage in the rankings right now, the silver, gold, and platinum DPS are waaay more dependable. In comparison to just a few healers I can think of that actually know what they're doing. And those are pretty much guaranteed wins. Get a bad healer though and I know it's a guaranteed loss. They don't even prove me wrong either!

Bad healers is the only way a match can end in 30secs like so many times I experienced so far.

Yea, the current influence of power is a bit flawed, since healers do have a lot of control, good dps vs an excellent healer can survive with bad dps and tanks, while it's possible they could still lose with the excellent healer if said healer runs out of MP, the objective of said healer is to keep their MP in check better than the other healer.

So in a way, the healers going up against one another are the main competing force in a fight in which burst damage can't go through. If the better healer keeps their MP up, all their team has to do is strike the moment the opponent's healer runs low on MP.

Each role should have more influence over the control of combat. What comes to mind are 3 concepts. Tank(Intercept), DPS(Bleed) and Healers(Survival).

Basically all Tanks should have some form of "covering", no longer a Paladin only PVP ability but all tanks are capable of it. On top of covering they could also have risky moves which take "Bleed" effects from allies but said bleed effects could be used as a cost to certain Tank abilities.

So say the whole gimmick behind Tank is grabbing bleed effects off allies while using them to perform certain abilities to turn the tide of fight.

Basically "Bleed" is a unique debuff from DPS roles that reduce ones Max HP til death. So each stack could be 5% of Max HP, meaning that the longer DPS are allowed to get these stacks off on an opponent, the lower their HP is and thus the harder it is for the healer to heal them.

Both Healer and Tanks would have a way to remove bleed, Tanks would be immune to bleed but they would be able to grab Bleed off other allies to use other abilities to help turn the tide of fight but the abilities in question would reduce their max HP temporarily by the amount of bleed used.

So say they have 4 Bleed stacks, that's 20% max HP loss, and they use an ability that needs 4 Bleed stacks to activate, causing them to lose those 4 Bleed stacks but replaced with 2 Fatigue which reduces their Max HP by 5% each. So while the effect of Bleed and Fatigue would be the same, the Fatigue would be a time based limitation on the tank which would disable them from using any other "Bleed cost" abilities til wears off. So a tank wouldn't be able to use 2 bleed abilities in a row unless they had an ability which removed the fatigue effect.

Overall though, my general idea is that each role would have a stronger influence in combat, the healer would no longer be about being a "heal bot" spamming cures til they other team runs out of juice but rather managing the heals with the removal of bleed stacks and holding off on removing bleed stacks in favor of the tank taking them from the DPS to use for their own PVP abilities.

So in a fight Tanks would always have their Max HP, but their true strength comes from taking the risk of reducing their own Max HP by willingly taking bleed from other allies so that they can use their own support abilities to help their team. In my mind what makes this interesting is for the opponent to properly balance who they hit with bleed, cause while they could hit a DPS with 50% Bleed loss aka 10 stacks, that also means a tank could take all that bleed and use their strongest move which would cost 10 bleed to use. With that in mind, a Tank can't take the bleed effect of anyone while they still have bleed on themselves so they would also have to keep in mind the stacks on their allies while asking to have said bleed removed if they can't use whatever they have leftover.

Maybe another gimmick with bleed that could be interesting, is the moment you have bleed on you, every 30 seconds another stack of bleed is added up to 10 stacks. So hitting an opponent with 5 stacks means in the next 2 and a half minutes they would be at 10 stacks. Allies could use this as an advantage to allow the Tank to claim the 10 stacks for themselves or the opponents anticipating that and using it to strike the tank/disabling them the moment they grab the 10 stacks.

But this is all just off the top of my head, but I do believe if a system like this were implemented into PVP Feast it would provide a balanced system of responsibility towards each role since now the healer isn't in full control over surviving and tanks have more influence over assisting in taking hits for their allies.

Honestly, a player in season 3 got top 10 on aether because of it. It doesn't show. Wintraders aren't even dealt with until dark week, if they even are dealt with. The moderation game needs to be upped.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Airget

Yea, the current influence of power is a bit flawed, since healers do have a lot of control, good dps vs an excellent healer can survive with bad dps and tanks, while it's possible they could still lose with the excellent healer if said healer runs out of MP, the objective of said healer is to keep their MP in check better than the other healer.

So in a way, the healers going up against one another are the main competing force in a fight in which burst damage can't go through. If the better healer keeps their MP up, all their team has to do is strike the moment the opponent's healer runs low on MP.

But this is all just off the top of my head, but I do believe if a system like this were implemented into PVP Feast it would provide a balanced system of responsibility towards each role since now the healer isn't in full control over surviving and tanks have more influence over assisting in taking hits for their allies.

---

The whole medal system to me is a bit of a flaw. The more medal you get the more vulnerable you are?, thus allow for some weird easy win in the last few seconds? It really should be each medal deserve a point base on certain kill, maybe tank medals is more valuable then say healer medal. Instead of loosing medal for dying, you only add medals to your total base on kill and quality of kills. And at the end of the match whomever side have more medal point count wins.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kai_Lee

The whole medal system to me is a bit of a flaw. The more medal you get the more vulnerable you are?, thus allow for some weird easy win in the last few seconds? It really should be each medal deserve a point base on certain kill, maybe tank medals is more valuable then say healer medal. Instead of loosing medal for dying, you only add medals to your total base on kill and quality of kills. And at the end of the match whomever side have more medal point count wins.

---

Yeah with Feast right now all you usually need is a melee LB on medal holder and run at the last 10secs = win lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Magic-Mal

Yeah with Feast right now all you usually need is a melee LB on medal holder and run at the last 10secs = win lol

---

Which makes first 7 mins useless unless you can win