Season Four Tier List

Here's this very unoriginal thread idea and topic of conversation!

As with any tier list, this is a means to educate, discuss, and debate viability of job classes in a competitive environment. It is not intended to discourage players from playing the class of their choice or to defame any class.

So let's get started; our obvious four categories:

TANK : (Updated: 07APR17)
A: PLD
B: WAR
C: DRK

HEAL : (Updated: 15APR17)
A: WHM
B: AST
C: SCH

DPS : DRG, MNK, NIN
A:
B:
C:

R.DPS : BLM, BRD, MCH, SMN
A:
B:
C:

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Join the discussion!
Tank Discussion

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mirch

I choose pld top for a simple reason, its utility and support role is syncronizes very well with the party healer, tho there are only few paladins on the top rankings i do believe it has the highest value of the 3 tanks in this current patch; WARs bursts are awesome yet easily counterable (those cleaves tho), its storms shine in pvp and it can counter bursts on it in many ways from mitigating damages to self recovering tons of hp; unfortunately for DRK you can't do much, since it has a very low damage burst it is more like a DoT job yet its CC are pretty nice, also its debuffs that increase/decrease damage dealt.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by BloodRubyXII

DRK has sick synergy with like sch/smn or sch/mch but everyone has to play in tight spaces or enemy team has to be braindead and stack up. If all those conditions are present, DRK is a monster, but outside of DA Carve and Spit does negligible supporting damage and that's where one of many weaknesses begins.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zensho

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...83488/best.png

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Heals Discussion:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mirch

I'd say WHM tops the current meta thanks to its multiple CC skills and lol Sacred Prism is op literally; AST works more as healer buffer and has great uses thanks to its recent buffs. as for scholar I think it is really a difficult job to use in pvp since you have to pre-shield bursts, play with your pet and you have only few CC skills compared to the other two healers.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Canadane

Rum is the exception to the rule, I think.
I mained SCH for two seasons and I wouldn't say I was bad, but it's certainly not a top tier healer for the Feast.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by A_Hortensia

My logic for WHM is utility; heavy, bind, pushback, aoe stun, and >SLEEP!<
Their ability to heavy a target for the DPS, CCing aggressors, and sleeping opposing healer in the most critical moments.
The only weakness they suffer is a lack of movement capability while healing; and perhaps some MP conservation issues that they suffer in a PvE setting.
A VIT heavy WHM is better equipped to deal with the movement issue as they are able to pseudo tank in within a Sacred Prism.
MP conservation isn't as glaring with piety heavy gear, and ever less a concern when paired with a MCH or BRD.
Repose synergy with PLD shield bash can technically remove an opponent from relevancy for an entire 18 seconds.
Benediction shines always; an instant response to a melee LB, the go to ability to reset after an attunement save, or the problem solver for a tank out of holmgang or living dead.

So after all that, why do I think AST is also top tier?
To keep the point simple, the major contributing factor is mobility.
Instant cast cures, shields, and buffs make for an extremely evasive and slippery healer.
They can be where they are needed and respond faster to burst; which as everyone should know is the main method of kill scores.
Retrogradation is a better "WHM Assize"; both as an AoE Esuna and Dispel; also instant.
Bole and Balance take a 10% hit in PVP areas but still offer a resource that no other job can offer.
The main argument I really want to push for AST is pure mobility through a larger resource of instant cast abilities.

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Updated tank listings; will revamp later if there's any patches or community adjustment.
Updated heals listings; will revamp later if there's any patches or community adjustment.

Let's talk melee DPS!
MNK is rock you. DRG will find you, and he will kill you (while making his BRD and MCH better). NIN is buffed, lots of tricks, on their way up!?
What's the scoop? Who's the real deal? Which DPS stands on top in the Feast to their fullest potential?

So far this season of the feast I have encounter all jobs pretty consistency minus drk which is still somewhat rare.

If I remember the old list well enough:

Tanks:
A: PLD
B: WAR
C: DRK

Healers:
A: WHM
B: AST
C: SCH

Melee DPS:
A: MNK
B: DRG
C: NIN

Ranged DPS:
A: MCH
B: BRD, SMN
C: BLM (not because they aren't viable, but because they are pretty technical and difficult to utilize, at least in the US metas)

TANK : WAR, DRK, PLD
A: PLD
B: WAR
C:
D:
E:
F: DRK (bind bot lol)

HEAL : AST, SCH, WHM
A: WHM
B: AST/SCH

DPS : DRG, MNK, NIN
A: MNK
B: NIN
C: DRG

R.DPS : BLM, BRD, MCH, SMN
A: MCH
B: BRD/SMN
C: BLM - like Lace said, they're either a-tier in a perfect game or a striking dummy.

No please stop , never ever put a job on low tier simply because they are technical, that just doesnt make sense. Since tier list are a reflection of High level gameplay, wich to be honest only a few are playing atm. (French native speaker here sorry if you dont understand)

TANK : WAR, DRK, PLD
A: PLD
B: WAR
C: DRK
I choose pld top for a simple reason, its utility and support role is syncronizes very well with the party healer, tho there are only few paladins on the top rankings i do believe it has the highest value of the 3 tanks in this current patch; WARs bursts are awesome yet easily counterable (those cleaves tho), its storms shine in pvp and it can counter bursts on it in many ways from mitigating damages to self recovering tons of hp; unfortunately for DRK you can't do much, since it has a very low damage burst it is more like a DoT job yet its CC are pretty nice, also its debuffs that increase/decrease damage dealt.

HEAL : AST, SCH, WHM
A: WHM
B: AST
C: SCH
I'd say WHM tops the current meta thanks to its multiple CC skills and lol Sacred Prism is op literally; AST works more as healer buffer and has great uses thanks to its recent buffs. as for scholar I think it is really a difficult job to use in pvp since you have to pre-shield bursts, play with your pet and you have only few CC skills compared to the other two healers.

DPS : DRG, MNK, NIN
A: MNK
B: DRG
C: NIN
MNK is currently terribly strong, it has 9 oGCD... nine... it can spam silence every 40 seconds for 3 times and every 150 seconds for 6-7 times i think; DRG does really high damages, every full thrust, with disembowel up, u might interrupt a caster casting and its burst does incredibly high damage; NIN got buffed but seems to be underperforming in pvp..tho i was told it can deal massive damages on a really tiny frame of time or maybe there are just few ninjas ou there and it is hard to analyze it better.

R.DPS : BLM, BRD, MCH, SMN
A: MCH
B: BRD
C: SMN
D: BLM
MCH is too strong, it must be nerfed, we all know its burst kills any non tank in a blink of an eye, it also has incredibly high mobility compared to the other 3 rdps some define it as glasscannon, full damage no defense, ye it may be true but u have so many CC that u work as crowd controller everytime u r not bursting and on top of that the turret is op, the melee turret deals fair damage while the aoe one provides mp regen and the user doesnt "lose" that much damage output since its burst relies mostly than its turrets hypercharge than its damage; BRDs barrage is op but then after that u kinda do nothing ..spam dots or sumthing like that, yet u can busrst on other ways and help healers with mages ballad, also wardens pean is nice; SMN burst is really nice but it requires the 3 dots up and be sure ur pet hits the target with a buffed enkindle, when its done bursting all it can do is either spam dots which is mp consuming, spam ruin 3 which is mp consuming or help the party with bind &blind attacks during enemy burstbut then smn needs some sort of mp regeneration/recover as it consumes really tons of mp; as for BLM, from what i saw it is the main target of every match and it has a big "1" on its head, at least on chaos.. it deals really high constant damages if it free casts also can sleep, bind, heavy, slow and ye if it free casts it might top the other 3.

Good list Mirch, but if any Summoner is OOMing whether it be from multidotting or burst, they're doing it wrong.

Is there anyone who doesn't agree that Paladin is better than Warrior? Or that Dark Knight is least equipped?

Personally I agree but I don't know what DRK really brings to the table.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by A_Hortensia

Is there anyone who doesn't agree that Paladin is better than Warrior? Or that Dark Knight is least equipped?

Personally I agree but I don't know what DRK really brings to the table.

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Let's see DRK a little closer, i'll list some points:

1) Offense: DRK can burst, it has a really good burst but it is not as effective as WAR, your DA+CnS & DA+SE & whatever u use are nothing nearly close to double zerged fell cleave, it does sustained damage and we know sustained damage in pvp is not as effective as burst damages.

2) Offense utility: Soul Survivor and Full Swing, both do apply vulneraibility, don't apply both on the same target at the same time lol.

3) Defense: DRK is hard to kill, it's a tank ok, but it's hard to kill but no one is likely going to give a damn of you till the end of the match or when the enemy team wants to secure fast win by killing you.

4) Defense utility: Carnal chill & Delirium, Carnal chill reduces the targets damage output by 60% that's a lot, but after those 6 seconds the burst is going to happen anyway so its more like temporaliy block the incoming burst, delirium is ur anticaster tool, unless u have a monk in ur party which has dragon kick and tons of silence spam and where dragon kick boosts its damages delirium doesnt.

5) CC: AoE Bind Unleash multiuse tool, AoE Heavy Tar Pit, Stun Low Blow, Blind DA+DP, Heavy Weapon Throw.

6) CC-Counter: practically none, plunge can get u closer to enemy but cant remove heavy nor used while bind, u only have purify or lock the enemy before he does it to you(situational).


Salted Earth, it's a really good skill, when you have control of the mid u can pop it on boxes, or pop it where the players are likely going to stay.

Unfortunately DRK can't really shine on our current meta, at least on 4v4 and you want to play competitive matches, there is a need of a serious balancing for pvp jobs.

DRK has sick synergy with like sch/smn or sch/mch but everyone has to play in tight spaces or enemy team has to be braindead and stack up. If all those conditions are present, DRK is a monster, but outside of DA Carve and Spit does negligible supporting damage and that's where one of many weaknesses begins.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...83488/best.png

Feel like tank discussion was pretty short and sweet; so shall we move onto healers?

We already got some info put together. Looks like a few people agree that WHM is top; but is that the case?
I see a huge amount of ASTs taking their positions very quickly high up the leader boards.
And on Primal data center, our highest rank player as of this post is a SCH who also has the highest win ratio of the whole list.

Astrologians are plentiful.
White Mages are hit or miss.
Scholars are rare diamonds in the rough.

White Mage, Astrologian, Scholar~ what do?

Rum is the exception to the rule, I think.
I mained SCH for two seasons and I wouldn't say I was bad, but it's certainly not a top tier healer for the Feast.

SE buff drk and ninja, nerf whm slightly and mnk slightly after complains but did nothing to help sch who most players have said sch lacks CC abilities.

SCH was also hit with SMN nerfs as it was all applied to ACN. Sad times. :(

would be nice to know the reasons and key points for each tier, like why this is on top and so on

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mirch

would be nice to know the reasons and key points for each tier, like why this is on top and so on

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I can edit in quotes from you guys and stuff into the OP and try to make it look cute, np!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by A_Hortensia

I can edit in quotes from you guys and stuff into the OP and try to make it look cute, np!

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that would be great!
but i meant need more players pthoughts..i expressed myself on a wrong way aha lol

Bumping; as I had wanted to post healer placement tomorrow.
Presently I'm leaning toward placing WHM and AST on equal footing in an A ranking, and placing SCH in B.

My logic for WHM is utility; heavy, bind, pushback, aoe stun, and >SLEEP!<
Their ability to heavy a target for the DPS, CCing aggressors, and sleeping opposing healer in the most critical moments.
The only weakness they suffer is a lack of movement capability while healing; and perhaps some MP conservation issues that they suffer in a PvE setting.
A VIT heavy WHM is better equipped to deal with the movement issue as they are able to pseudo tank in within a Sacred Prism.
MP conservation isn't as glaring with piety heavy gear, and ever less a concern when paired with a MCH or BRD.
Repose synergy with PLD shield bash can technically remove an opponent from relevancy for an entire 18 seconds.
Benediction shines always; an instant response to a melee LB, the go to ability to reset after an attunement save, or the problem solver for a tank out of holmgang or living dead.

So after all that, why do I think AST is also top tier?
To keep the point simple, the major contributing factor is mobility.
Instant cast cures, shields, and buffs make for an extremely evasive and slippery healer.
They can be where they are needed and respond faster to burst; which as everyone should know is the main method of kill scores.
Retrogradation is a better "WHM Assize"; both as an AoE Esuna and Dispel; also instant.
Bole and Balance take a 10% hit in PVP areas but still offer a resource that no other job can offer.
The main argument I really want to push for AST is pure mobility through a larger resource of instant cast abilities.

SCH!
I'm mostly clueless; I just know the basics.
2 sources of cures instead of one can create a pseudo healer omnipresence.
Aura Blast is their PVP skill and it's... disappointing?
I've only seen two to three SCHs this season really play at the high level of skill I feel SCH needs to succeed.
I'd like more SCH input, because I feel like it has WHM's strengths and weakness but none of the CC power to make a difference in critical moments.

One thing i noticed about scholar is that when it has the wolf heart buff it simply spams adlo and no one dies, this hardspam of adlo lasts till end of match and really no one of the sch team dies, sch shields are op, some say it's somewhat weak against summoners and a relevant amount of dots on target

If you're a SCH and you get matched up against Monk or Astro you've probably lost btw lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mirch

One thing i noticed about scholar is that when it has the wolf heart buff it simply spams adlo and no one dies, this hardspam of adlo lasts till end of match and really no one of the sch team dies, sch shields are op, some say it's somewhat weak against summoners and a relevant amount of dots on target

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I also noticed that Eos also gets the benefits of Wolf Heart. ( ' w ')b

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BloodRubyXII

If you're a SCH and you get matched up against Monk or Astro you've probably lost btw lol.

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Why? Okay so, MNK tears through healers, and SCH lacks CC.. is there more to it?
Why AST?
Let me know. ( ' w ')b

Quote:

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Originally Posted by A_Hortensia

I also noticed that Eos also gets the benefits of Wolf Heart. ( ' w ')b



Why? Okay so, MNK tears through healers, and SCH lacks CC.. is there more to it?
Why AST?
Let me know. ( ' w ')b

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Same reason it tears through other healers, you pretty much get purged spammed to death. But it hurts us even more because they can also dispel our aether stacks.

Aetherflow stacks can't be removed with buff removing abilities.

http://i.imgur.com/KnxYtnF.png

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KusoWat

Aetherflow stacks can't be removed with buff removing abilities.

http://i.imgur.com/KnxYtnF.png

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What a time to be alive

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BloodRubyXII

What a time to be alive

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To be fair. Monk can still put a serious about of pressure down that can be hard to predict. The only upside is that if you manage to heal through their burst and pressure, they hit like wet noodles until they're GL3 again. (Which can be immediate if you don't blind them or CC them before axe kick.)

Updated OP to reflect what I feel is the current assessment of healer potential.
Please continue to challenge or debate rankings!

Would like to move onto melee DPS discussion;

Dragoon, Monk, Ninja;

Let us know how you feel!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RedHerb

To be fair. Monk can still put a serious about of pressure down that can be hard to predict. The only upside is that if you manage to heal through their burst and pressure, they hit like wet noodles until they're GL3 again. (Which can be immediate if you don't blind them or CC them before axe kick.)

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Well yeah that and it doesn't stop them purging through everything else.

Also Arista mate, Astro is definitely above Scholar lol. It's not that Scholar is bad, it's just someone's gotta be the weakest and in this case with everything taken into account it is us.

Nin burst window is very hard to execute and just gets shut down by any cc. If your trying to cast a mudra and get cc'ed you use purify and it breaks the ninjutsu. Trick attack can be blinded very easily. Our 3 second silence is on a 90 second cd and healers still can use abilities during it rendering it 1 missed GCD every 90 seconds. Our sukuchi often allows 1 extra melee spell to hit us before escaping due to long cast time. opening up from stealth feels terrible trying to land a TA on a moving ranged target. Using bind really hurts our dps. We have the least survivability. Very hard to switch targets quickly out of burst window for dmg without applying DE or SF which is 5 gcd's. Hard to maintain Huton and feels punishing to use AC as a positional.

Season 4 tier list:

Roll the dice and hope your team are not "Garo bois"

Season 5 top tier list

Id say DRK SCH BLM MNK.
Drk extra shielder, assist and CC
Sch shielder and resource drainer
Blm aoe damage and insta burst
Mnk approx 8k dmg in 2 hits killer

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mirch

Season 5 top tier list

Id say DRK SCH BLM MNK.
Drk extra shielder, assist and CC
Sch shielder and resource drainer
Blm aoe damage and insta burst
Mnk approx 8k dmg in 2 hits killer

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Have you even played black mage? Their burst is nowhere near instant. The fastest damage a BLM can do is about 8k in 6-7 seconds due to cast times and having no oGCD damage spells.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Koltik

Have you even played black mage? Their burst is nowhere near instant. The fastest damage a BLM can do is about 8k in 6-7 seconds due to cast times and having no oGCD damage spells.

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Even postnerf SMN is probably the better magic ranged.

Anyway my s5 tier list
A Tier: DRK, SCH/AST (SCH has huge heavy, broil reduced cast time and grants aetherflow, AST cards last an eternity now and instant bind with benefic I procs; amazing mana sustain with the draw change and now ED actually does something), SAM, SMN (possibly a bit of a stretch, but their burst windows are scary and long)

B: WHM, PLD, BLM (heavily gcd capped), RDM, MNK (after rof nerfs; still scary burst)

C: WAR, MCH (absolutely gutted, burst tickles), DRG, NIN (no-one's really playing it it feels?)

I couldn't figure out a place for BRD.

Any current thoughts from Koltik? Would be interested to see your list as you've spent more time in 4s than me.