Innapropriate use of the term Toxic

It seems as though every 2-3 hours a new thread or post is made by neophytes complaining about "Toxic " behavior by the community. Usually it's relating to them being kicked from a party because they're wearing the wrong gear, being advised that their doing something wrong, people are speedrunning, asking for higher levels of participation or whatever.

Can we please stop using the term Toxic to refer to:

1.) Being told your gear is not appropriate for the content your doing (and subsequently being kicked)
2.) Being asked to DPS as a healer (can - worms, opened, floor covered)
3.) Being asked to pull more as a tank
4.) Being asked to use your enmity reduction as DPS
5.) Being asked to not spam 1 button as DPS
6.) People not waiting for you to finish watching the cut-scenes (if they don't wait and you get locked out, w/e - enjoy your free carry)
7.) Anything and everything else that is not Extremely harsh, Malicious and Harmful

I can count on one hand the number of times I've been met with Toxic behavior. I have had people with bad attitudes, who are annoying, who have a superiority complex or are just downright rude. But Toxic has a very specific meaning in that it describes the most extreme type of behavior and when overused devalues it's meaning to the point where even the smallest perceived slight becomes a world crushing deadly encounter.

Mhm... the term "toxic" to describe player behavior has primarily been coined by Riot Games and is meant to refer to the fact that some players can "poison" the game in a way like poison can contaminate a water supply.

Another common analogy is like the poison in an artery/vein: The poison or bad behavior spreads through the body or playerbase. I.E. you've been pissed off by someone so now you're annoyed and piss someone else off in turn, who then gets pissed and... rinse and repeat.

In general, it means that someone creates a negative atmosphere with their behavior and thus "poisons" it - Due to its behavior, the presence of the person is bad for those around it. Hence, the term toxic. And toxic comes in various degrees - a little toxic, moderately toxic, very toxic. Like the potencies of real poisons!

Due to LoLs popularity, the usage of the word itself has spread a lot, though few actually understand what it's supposed to mean. Doesn't help that Riot (AFAIK) never gave an official Definition of it, despite its frequent use of the word. You pretty much have to read their statements and interviews and deduce what they actually mean. Alternately, you can probably call Lyte directly and ask, if you got the number. Personally, I don't.

A few fun reads on the topic, tho:
http://www.polygon.com/2012/10/17/35...-to-cure-toxic
https://rework.withgoogle.com/case-s...sing-toxicity/

A fun quote from the last link:

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Riot looked at the preceding 12 months of gameplay of every employee and discovered there was a correlation between in-game and in-Riot toxicity. They determined that 25% of employees who had been let go in the previous year were players with unusually high in-game toxicity. The most common bad behaviors they found were passive aggression (snarky comments) and the use of authoritative language, sometimes using their authority as a Riot employee to intimidate or threaten others.

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This shows quite well that even fairly small things (Snarky Comments) are considered toxic with their underlying definition.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Alternately, you can probably call Lyte directly and ask, if you got the number. Personally, I don't.

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I'm pretty sure one of my friends is engaged to Lyte. Might have to call in a favour...

Thank you.

I don't post much on these forums, but I do read them here and there and this section always gets flooded by complaints about toxic players and the oh so toxic community and I always wonder what the hell they're talking about.
I do not understand it at all. This community is so friendly and innocent in comparison and so many people have such a GREAT DEAL OF PATIENCE that I could never think of this community as anywhere near toxic.
Now, I do not play on the american data servers which seem to be the main culprit, but us europeans aren't all friendly and innocent either. So I'd guess its fairly similar overall (correct me if I'm wrong).

I hardly ever meet actual toxic players. The worst attitude I *usually* get to see is people leaving a farm party after 1-2 wipes and stating that "I thought this was a farm".
While this might not always be the best attitude and behaviour, it is far from toxic. It just means the player had different expectations when he joined and came to the conclusion his time is spent better with something else.
Toxic is what I'd call someone who would start calling out people and insulting them. Or, you know, those people who mess up all the time and then randomly call out healers or tanks and blame them for their own mistakes?
That is toxic.

Asking people to put more effort is not toxic. Especially not when theyre offering advice. IMO, the people refusing every piece of advice, slacking and hoping for a carry are toxic, if anything.
If you can't put a basic amount of effort into your "playstyle" and/or fail to grasp the concept of "group effort" cos you dont care, then may I suggest you to main a botanist?

This thread is toxic.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

coined by Riot Games

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Late Latin toxicus, from Latin toxicum poison, from Greek toxikon arrow poison, from neuter of toxikos of a bow, from toxon bow, arrow

First Known Use: 1664


https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/toxic

In my opinion, though many of those points you described aren't particularly toxic on their own, a player's behaviour can greatly influence how these matters are perceived. If a healer kindly asks the tank to do bigger pulls as the healer can manage, fair enough. But if the healer/DPS goes into a massive tirade on why the hell is the tank pulling pathetically small mobs and they're a terrible tank etc etc THEN I would class that as toxic behaviour. It's all about context and tone.

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Originally Posted by Llus

Late Latin toxicus, from Latin toxicum poison, from Greek toxikon arrow poison, from neuter of toxikos of a bow, from toxon bow, arrow

First Known Use: 1664


https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/toxic

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Mhm... the term "toxic" to describe player behavior has primarily been coined by Riot Games

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The MMO term for it, not the actual term for it.

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Originally Posted by Faliandra

Thank you.

I don't post much on these forums, but I do read them here and there and this section always gets flooded by complaints about toxic players and the oh so toxic community and I always wonder what the hell they're talking about.
I do not understand it at all. This community is so friendly and innocent in comparison and so many people have such a GREAT DEAL OF PATIENCE that I could never think of this community as anywhere near toxic.
Now, I do not play on the american data servers which seem to be the main culprit, but us europeans aren't all friendly and innocent either. So I'd guess its fairly similar overall (correct me if I'm wrong).

I hardly ever meet actual toxic players. The worst attitude I *usually* get to see is people leaving a farm party after 1-2 wipes and stating that "I thought this was a farm".
While this might not always be the best attitude and behaviour, it is far from toxic. It just means the player had different expectations when he joined and came to the conclusion his time is spent better with something else.
Toxic is what I'd call someone who would start calling out people and insulting them. Or, you know, those people who mess up all the time and then randomly call out healers or tanks and blame them for their own mistakes?
That is toxic.

Asking people to put more effort is not toxic. Especially not when theyre offering advice. IMO, the people refusing every piece of advice, slacking and hoping for a carry are toxic, if anything.
If you can't put a basic amount of effort into your "playstyle" and/or fail to grasp the concept of "group effort" cos you dont care, then may I suggest you to main a botanist?

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I appreciate your response and generally agree with everything. However, people refusing advice, slacking and hoping for a carry should be labeled as apathetic and/or lazy.

As to your question; the player base on NA servers seems to be consistent with EU and JP. There are people that are apathetic and lazy, those that take any form of criticism as a personal insult and those that have an entitled attitude or superiority attitude. And while they are in the minority, confirmation bias tends to make them more memorable.

I don't agree with all. For example, you can be asked to DPS as healer or pull more as tank. Asking is not toxic. Toxicity comes when you say no and then they proceed to insult you or try to abuse the kick feature. Asking is no toxic, toxic is how people react to that. Also depends how you ask. It is not the same "You can DPS while you're not healing" than "OMG fucking noob healer no DPS, git gud or quit game" or jsut being kicked without a word.

People usually complains for the manner, not really for the question. As you should be able to accept too the answer of that person. If they don't DSP as healer because is not sure or cannot manage it, you cannot demand it (follow the example before) as long they are doing his role.

People not call toxic to one who ask other to do a thing, they call toxic when THEY demand, usually with bad manners.

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Originally Posted by molzilla

In my opinion, though many of those points you described aren't particularly toxic on their own, a player's hevahour can greatly influence how these matters are perceived. If a healer kindly asks the tank to do bigger pulls as the healer can manage, fair enough. But if the healer/DPS goes into a massive tirade on why the hell is the tank pulling pathetically small mobs and they're a terrible tank etc etc THEN I would class that as toxic behaviour. It's all about context and tone.

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Absolutely, context and tone make all the difference.

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Originally Posted by Settiesama

The MMO term for it, not the actual term for it.

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/10.chars.

If any term needs to be stopped, it's using 'Aggro' in the middle of a fight. Enmity is not the same thing as Aggro.

"In MMORPG's and MUD's, means that an NPC will attack pre-emptively, instead of only returning an attack."

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Originally Posted by Llus

However, people refusing advice, slacking and hoping for a carry should be labeled as apathetic and/or lazy.

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You are right, but I feel I am right as well. While their actual behaviour itself may not be toxic, it causes toxicity amongst players.

The decent players are tired of carrying bad players, especially if they dont react to advise or simply refuse to use it.
Then the bad player may get kicked and come to the forums crying about how toxic the community is.

Then the decent players get pissed over being called toxic when all they want you to do is TRY.
It's a vicious circle.

Hence why I mentioned it.

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Originally Posted by Settiesama

If any term needs to be stopped, it's using 'Aggro' in the middle of a fight. Enmity is not the same thing as Aggro.

"In MMORPG's and MUD's, means that an NPC will attack pre-emptively, instead of only returning an attack."

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As far I know, it is the same. In this game, they called to aggro "Enmity". Both are the same, how much a enemy "hate" you to attack. It is called "hate" too.

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Originally Posted by Xlantaa

As far I know, it is the same. In this game, they called to aggro "Enmity". Both are the same, how much a enemy "hate" you to attack. It is called "hate" too.

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Enmity (which literally means hate) is the measure of how much the enemy hates you, and will turn on you if the generate the most, in other games this may be called Threat too. Aggro is when a monster is idle, and when you run past it, turns aggressive on you. It's not the same thing.

Of course, you can argue that different games have different meaning for things etc. Which of course then leaves the OP of this thread no leg to stand on, as Toxic itself has been altered in this regard.

How about we look at the bigger picture and how the word toxic is just a deflection by people who don't want to even acknowledge what's being asked of them?

While being a jerk to a newbie for being new is one of my pet peeves and I will do everything in my power to punish those personally who do it. The amount of players who complain about minor things is getting a bit ridiculous.

If you want to see toxic communities. Go play a Free to Play game where you have to game with the riffraff. In those games, racist slurs and sexual insults are normal speech since you can't ban thousands of players a day. Where harassment goes unpunished because the number of violations is too much to moderate. By comparison you won't see this in FFXIV because no one is going to buy the game and a first month sub just to say a bad word. Or risk months of work (and sub fees). But in a F2P game, its as simple as making another fake email addy.

We literally do NOT need a new thread every time someone says something mean to someone else. Get your thick hide on people. You're all adults and adolescents, harsh words and attitudes are something you have to deal with in life.

It's like the term "elitist" that gets tossed around haphazardly.

If you're consistently terrible and don't respond well to genuine advice, then someone is not an "elitist" because they don't want you dragging them down.

People have become too fragile, and entitlement has become a problem.