[SUGGESTION] Make raise cap with challenges every 5 levels

With lv raising cap (60 to 70), make it challenging for players to reach the cap so that they can clear challenges only by correctly play their job. Yes, i am not asking for inclusive system but exclusive. Yes, I am talking about something like this guy.

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/...20050520113239

Edit by listening to all these dumb questions: DELETE BALMUNG.

Please clarify what you mean, because I'm having trouble understanding. 'Raise cap' sounds like something to do with raising KO'd players, but that can't be right.

I think he means to erect skill barriers on the way to level 70 every 5 levels so that you can't reach the cap without being "gud".

I think it's a reference to how in XI you had go clear challenges to raise your level cap at certain points? (not sure, never played XI)

Get ready for the flames of I PAY A SUB I DONT NEED TO BE GUD!

On topic:
I think we are getting to the point now where having advancement type quests would be a cool feature, but thats just me. ^^

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Originally Posted by Lukha

Please clarify what you mean, because I'm having trouble understanding. 'Raise cap' sounds like something to do with raising KO'd players, but that can't be right.

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edited ;) raise cap is referring to the raising of lvcap

Making the job quests actually hard would be nice.

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Originally Posted by Headhunters

With lv raising cap (60 to 70), make it challenging for players to reach the cap so that they can clear challenges only by correctly play their job. Yes, i am not asking for inclusive system but exclusive. Yes, I am talking about something like this guy.

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/...20050520113239

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I don't mind the idea...

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Originally Posted by Headhunters

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Edit by listening to all these dumb questions: DELETE BALMUNG.

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But after this statement I can't, in good confidence, like the post.

You mean like a basic job check? Which would cover all the basics of the job.

No thank you. If they don't know their job by lvl 70 then they won't know it anytime soon

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Originally Posted by Headhunters

Make raise cap with challenges every 5 levels

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....so, once? At level 65?

It is not good idea. If a player cannot complete it, can be frustrated and stop playing the game. Devs won't allow such thing.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

I think he means to erect skill barriers on the way to level 70 every 5 levels so that you can't reach the cap without being "gud".

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Yeah, sounds like he wants the FFXI Limit Break mechanic.. horrible idea.

I remember this in FFXI. Hit 50, stopped earning EXP. Had to do a quest to continue earning EXP. At level 55, you stopped again, and had to complete another quest.

The thing is, I don't see how this would really work in FFXIV. In FFXI you couldn't really wander around outside a city without having a group of 5 players to clear enemies out in the field. Not unless you were WAY over level for those enemies, even then, it could be tricky.

Amusingly one of my LS contacts did quit FFXI purely because he could not beat Maat and everyone else left him behind. It was funny because he was pretty terrible at the game (constantly AFK during fights, which was actually really punishing to everyone else) but he never ragequit from us telling him, only giving up when the game itself told him to try harder.

If I could beat Maat (I did) then it's not cripplingly difficult. Just nicely challenging.

I think a trial like this can easily be balanced to be challenging. But I don't think we need the artificial level cap restriction; it can be handled through regular job quests. Just make some really sexy AF gear and/or abilities locked behind really punishing quests, to give us all something to work on instead of crushing the job quests without even noticing and collecting our rewards.

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Originally Posted by Serilda

Amusingly one of my LS contacts did quit FFXI purely because he could not beat Maat and everyone else left him behind. It was funny because he was pretty terrible at the game (constantly AFK during fights, which was actually really punishing to everyone else) but he never ragequit from us telling him, only giving up when the game itself told him to try harder.

If I could beat Maat (I did) then it's not cripplingly difficult. Just nicely challenging.

I think a trial like this can easily be balanced to be challenging. But I don't think we need the artificial level cap restriction; it can be handled through regular job quests. Just make some really sexy AF gear and/or abilities locked behind really punishing quests, to give us all something to work on instead of crushing the job quests without even noticing and collecting our rewards.

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red mage by any chance?

NO FREAKING WAY.
I hated that guy, and all those boring a$$ed genkais.

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Originally Posted by Serilda

Making the job quests actually hard would be nice.

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The irony is that some odd (5-50) job quests are incredibly difficult if at the correct level & in gear readily available (eg not HQ crafted or melded), for *some* classes/jobs, whereas others are incredibly easy. There isn't the parity across the board. Obviously none are undoable but for a new player they can be trouble.

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Originally Posted by Derio

You mean like a basic job check? Which would cover all the basics of the job.

No thank you. If they don't know their job by lvl 70 then they won't know it anytime soon

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Do you know your job at lvl65 after the battle changes? You do! Then you are a god. /sarcasm

The OP has a point, as do you, but we don't know what the battle system changes will be nor do we know what actions will be introduced to the jobs. Some changed quite radically between lvl 50 & lvl60, with introductions of stances to jobs that never had them (SMN & BLM) for example. Not forgetting that both Samurai & Red Mage will have only just appeared. The amount of AST/DRK/MCH who don't know their jobs by lvl50 is still remarkable.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

red mage by any chance?

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Nope, he was Bard ;)

Unfortunately we normally carried him through everything so it was the very first time the game really required him to pay attention. He couldn't handle it.

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Originally Posted by Culfinrandir

The irony is that some odd (5-50) job quests are incredibly difficult if at the correct level & in gear readily available (eg not HQ crafted or melded), for *some* classes/jobs, whereas others are incredibly easy. There isn't the parity across the board. Obviously none are undoable but for a new player they can be trouble.

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Yeah, I feel as though it's a bit of a lottery. Most are extremely easy but a couple can be rough, especially for actual new players. It would be nice to have more consistency and make completing the quests require paying proper attention, instead of them being an artificial time-wasting diversion every few levels which don't feel as big a deal as the stories imply.

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Originally Posted by Serilda

Making the job quests actually hard would be nice.

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Or at least have them teach you your job. Like, telling dps to aoe @ 3+ mobs, or what limit break does.

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Originally Posted by Derio

If they don't know their job by lvl 50/60/70/80/90/99...

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See the problem with this mindset? Stop excusing them, or you'll be excusing them forever. Now is as good a time as any to teach.

I haven't played WoW in a while but someone told me after I made a request there existed as a trial ground that would sort of test your metal (at varying stages) and you could let it be known you were good at whatever job you did the task as. Maat-ish like fight for those who know FFXI

And SE is adding intermediate Hall, a hall above novice, to the game.. it would lead they could add more, and so I'd love to see / encourage them keep going. I'd really like to see some really challenging self opportunities, was hoping that'd be something with like a big solo leve hunt - maybe in the future, but just something that is for the self to prove self outside of relying on others. Maybe the Halls use a specific gear stats too, so you can't just outgear the skill test.

Binding certain content behind specific Halls wouldn't be a bad idea, like savage dungeons behind some of the highest halls.

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Originally Posted by Derio

You mean like a basic job check? Which would cover all the basics of the job.

No thank you. If they don't know their job by lvl 70 then they won't know it anytime soon

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If they don't know their job they can't pass the test and therefore can't move into content where they prove to others they don't know their job. So I don't quite get the "no thank you, I'd rather see them all myself~" lol.

I mean it's true if you don't understand the most basic mechanics of your job at 70 you've been really sleeping at the wheel but a test that forces you to prove them could easily do two things:

a. increase player expectation (Ice Mage is basically told by the game "you're wrong")
b. anyone who is legitimately having trouble can learn in a far more supportive / less stressful environment (that's actually a lot of people, I find most people don't try to be bad they just get moved too quickly and not playing with the right helpful people).

Of course some people will do the test, know their job, and then join the group and not care and be lazy - but that'd be where the "dude I know you passed the Level 70 BLM Maat test, you clearly know that Blizzard 4 only is not acceptable - stop or we will kick you, justifiably". Some people don't get a nice group or are not really intuitive players (stuff that makes sense to a natural gamer might not click right away for them), so I feel bad for people who get crapped on who WOULD WANT TO try if they were helped properly - SE can help do that and lower everyone else's annoyances lol.

Random aside on the system: I like the idea of binding certain tests into the jobs (as OP was stating), also certain tests could be used for Mentor or Savages (You don't need to be able to do savage to be a mentor, but it could be used to make a higher tier Mentor status for savage and or just make sure the general tier mentor is going to say "don't look at the eye marker" rather than "I'm not sure" lol). Also perhaps on the harder Halls (tests) they allow mentors/allow players to sit in and watch, it might be helpful to let someone besides the game critique / encourage you (this would be voluntary invite by the person taking the test).

I approve of this idea.

Make a ridiculously hard fight to break lv60.
No getting past 60 for scrubs. Ala Mhigan resistance doesn't need scrubs.

edit: Nvm, it doesn't have to be too hard. There is people not capable of extremely hard stuff, it would be nice if ffxiv stayed disabled-friendly. Their enjoyment is just as important as anyone elses'.

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Originally Posted by Serilda

Nope, he was Bard ;)

Unfortunately we normally carried him through everything so it was the very first time the game really required him to pay attention. He couldn't handle it.

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I had to look that one up since I only know of how to rush him but way you sound, would be not possible for them to do. So I wondered if it was like whm where you can just sleep him or something:

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This is a pretty straight forward strategy on how to defeat Maat without anything fancy. It has worked for multiple people and is worth posting. You can, butdon't need to sleep yourself to 100%tp. You should take at least a couple hi-potions just in case (especially if going to fight Maat at lvl 66 or 67). It is also helpful to have a Carapace body piece. Blink Band, Stoneskin items also help, but are not needed.

Basically upon entering the fight, you run until Maat is in view. Soul Voice, double Paeon, Requiem Maat, then Elegy him. If you've got decent defense and a decent attack, go ahead and melee him WSing whenever you can. If you're short on funds, simply kite him, resinging Requiem before Soul Voice wears off. Soul Voice + Requiem, if put on him soon after entering the fight, will pretty much kill him without any help. Just be sure to dispel any Paeons he might put on himself as well as pop a hi-pot to stay in the white HP range. When I did this strategy and used a sword, I beat him in about 5 minutes with full hp, using only one hi-potion to max my Spirits Within.

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All you do is dot him to death while using regen songs on yourself, while using a slow effect and keeping him dispeled of regen songs. The only hard maat was RDM because most people expect it just to be a healer and not gear it like a BLM needs to.

I do not know if this suggestion is the right way of going about it, but with all the people I seen have max gear, or max level with -- for every other class and still does not know how to play, some kind of tutorial gate is needed. There is a lot of people at 60+ muti jobs right now that does not have a clue how to play properly. I think my favorite story was how my friend was told MCH using AoE is too weak because it is only 120 potency even though there is 10+ monsters to hit in ARF. (Also btw, that is the reason she stopped trying to farm lore in ARF, just too many bad players going in there dispirit that they should know better.) Thanks to a thread I made, she end up being much happier farming a place for 100 lore in 10-15 mins (depending on matchmaking)

I remember XI's WHM Maat quests were basically run around for 5 minutes curing yourself. Extremely challenging :)

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Originally Posted by Alistaire

Or at least have them teach you your job. Like, telling dps to aoe @ 3+ mobs, or what limit break does.

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I was actually really disappointed and confused when the battles in the Conjurer/White Mage questlines didn't require any healing. I mean, I love DPSing, but I feel like it would have been more thematically appropriate to have me fighting alongside an NPC tank or DPS and having to work to keep them alive, rather than have me and two other 'White Mage' NPCs spamming DPS skills on a boss...

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Originally Posted by Serilda

It was funny because he was pretty terrible at the game (constantly AFK during fights, which was actually really punishing to everyone else)

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XD Sounds like this guy who used to be in my FC, whom I found out after the fact was almost constantly high when he was playing. Back before the power creep at 60 was so pronounced as to make it a given, partying with him was how I found out I could solo-heal Ravana, because when my FC got a little farm going, he spent the entire time running aroind in circles not hitting any buttons that I could detect.

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Originally Posted by Headhunters

With lv raising cap (60 to 70), make it challenging for players to reach the cap so that they can clear challenges only by correctly play their job. Yes, i am not asking for inclusive system but exclusive. Yes, I am talking about something like this guy.

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/...20050520113239

Edit by listening to all these dumb questions: DELETE BALMUNG.

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my gf, who is a 7 year vet of ff11, having played over 75 characters, 6 of them reaching 75, and 3 of them reaching 90 till she quit, says:

if you didn't play ff11 long term, only the base, and zilart jobs got maat. the treasures jobs got their respected quest starter. Also stated none of the level cap quests were hard to do, even maat fight could be done easily with little to no effort based on your job. Like whm only has to heal self for 5 min and thf only had to steal a pebble from maat. Infact most of each maat fight was cheesing it, not playing it correctly such as entering naked, or with a 1 handed weapon. like the rdm state was to enter use staves to sleep him then nuke> sleep still dead. In sone cases it was a luck of a draw on what he would do during the fight.

None of the quests added much of anything, and only gated leveling up with tedious quests you couldn't solo till maat which you HAD to solo. Which in most cases you pick a job you can cheese the fight with, and not touch it again.

For those confused @ 50 you would get a quest to uncap leveling for the next 5 levels up to 70 which was a Maat fight or equivalent.


she also says: the lvl 15 cnj actually encourages you to heal the npc. It can be done solely keeping the npc alive while they kill everything. If people choose to dos instead, that is their choice, but it can be done by healing only.

Eh. I found the Maat quests to be tedious.

I was DRK and failed 2 times, was kind of tedious to me specially farming/reaching Davoi boss for the item but Maat helped me not to rush with JA etc and use the a good time between CDs

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Originally Posted by BigRed5392

None of the quests added much of anything, and only gated leveling up with tedious quests you couldn't solo till maat which you HAD to solo.

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75 characters?!?

I don't think they should add actual genkai quests which lock your experience until you unlock them like in FFXI as XIV is so instance-heavy that it would just be annoying, but in defence of the XI system the quests were actually extremely challenging and interesting at first. I played before the English release so when people in my LS hit level 50 there were no other level 50+ characters in the game yet to carry them through which meant the tests required a lot of coordination (they were nerfed later, and people who joined later had an innate advantage as people who had already broken the limits could help). This kind of difficulty balancing can easily be achieved in XIV with instancing and a very aggressive ilvl sync.

Why are people so AGAINST any type of interesting and unique quests or challenges. We aren't talking savage level content here people. It amazes me people are so quick to say no to anything that would require a little effort on there part to do something be it solo or in a group.

This wont happen because they want you to reach max level with minimal fuss. If you mess up and fail your class quest, you start to get echo, up to 50% if memory serves me correctly to push you through.

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Originally Posted by bass9020

Why are people so AGAINST any type of interesting and unique quests or challenges.

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Because it's suggested as mandatory?

Suggest it as sidequest you can do or leave at leisure and you'll find a lot less opposition, just as you'll find a lot less opposition if you ask to please keep adding quests like Matoyas Brooms or the Greatest Story Never Told than if you suggest to turn the MSQ or class quests into such.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Because it's suggested as mandatory?

Suggest it as sidequest you can do or leave at leisure and you'll find a lot less opposition, just as you'll find a lot less opposition if you ask to please keep adding quests like Matoyas Brooms or the Greatest Story Never Told than if you suggest to turn the MSQ or class quests into such.

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I forgot anything thats mandatory is a horrible thing. Nevermind lets keep thing as they are! Any type of mandatory quest is WRONG WRONG WRONG!!!!!!!!

Just buy a level skip potion if you don't like doing quests :)

Maat was exciting imo.

I remember when I lvled my first job (rdm of all things) and was getting ready to do Maat. The only tedious aspect was having to get at or near cap for all my skills, which was good in the end and as I often played in a battle mage roll my offensive skill lvls were at least decend, but as a new player I never realized how important they really were til then.

But the preparation, making sure I had all my gear, all my macros and everything set just so. And then taking that testimony in hand and going in, I was on the edge of my seat. It was tough but I did it on my first try and I literally cheered out loud.

Nothing in this game has gotten that kind of reaction from me. I would love it if they added something that did.