Dear Paladins: please don't "Cover" dark knights

I've had this happen a couple of times, and it's really, really annoying:

I'm main-tanking in Trial Roulette or something, and the off-tank is a paladin. Usually, this means the paladin will be wearing significantly worse gear than I am, or I OT and DPS.

Nonetheless, during the fight, a little light tether to the PLD will appear, and I get an unremovable buff: "Covered".

This is, as a dark knight, extremely annoying. Not just because it's over-working the healers if the paladin's gear isn't that great, but also because at various points getting hit is where I get my MP from.

Can you all just... not? Unless there's an actual, genuine reason to, which, in Trial Roulette, there absolutely definitely isn't.

I can't imagine using cover, unless the other tank is about to die for some reason. Clemency, maybe. Cover? Why?

They just want to feel useful when they're off tanking. :(

Eh, depending on the content there are useful times to use Cover. Titan EX when timed right can keep a stack off the MT, which then lets the rest of the stacks time out and thus no tank swap. Same with A7 Quickthink for the later stacks, keeping the MT from getting to many though that one doesn't matter quite as much as Titan EX does.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bonbalon_Burcaso

I can't imagine using cover, unless the other tank is about to die for some reason. Clemency, maybe. Cover? Why?

---

I DO NOT KNOW

But it is annoying. So I thought I'd try asking politely on the tank forum in hopes that it might spread the notion that paladins should not do this.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dualblade

Eh, depending on the content there are useful times to use Cover. Titan EX when timed right can keep a stack off the MT, which then lets the rest of the stacks time out and thus no tank swap. Same with A7 Quickthink for the later stacks, keeping the MT from getting to many though that one doesn't matter quite as much as Titan EX does.

---

I did specify "unless there is a reason", and EX primals and Alexander do not come up in things like Trial Roulette. If you're doing EX primals/Alex and are using it as a strategy, that will presumably be something you have discussed, in which case it is no longer rude and annoying, it's expected.

Similarly, if you are doing tank swaps, provoking the boss off the MT is expected, whereas it is also very, very annoying if you do it halfway through a fight in trial roulette.

i use cover as Ot when i can get a shield swipe proc it a bit of added dmg

You cover to get sheltron proc for extra deeps.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bounddreamer

They just want to feel useful when they're off tanking. :(

---

I just do it for a shield swipe. Cos that extra dps is pure leet

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Dzian

I just do it for a shield swipe. Cos that extra dps is pure leet

---

Is it really extra when it comes at the cost of the Dark Knight's MP, Reprisal, and Low Blows?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EusisLandale

Is it really extra when it comes at the cost of the Dark Knight's MP, Reprisal, and Low Blows?

---

While I agree with you, technically its possible to see Reprisal on the boss, and see the Blood Price effect wear off the DRK, which is then safe to use cover. (and of course remove it once u get ur proc (Im fairly sure PLD can remove it themselves, but i might be wrong on that)

But that would require a supper attentive PLD lol.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EusisLandale

Is it really extra when it comes at the cost of the Dark Knight's MP, Reprisal, and Low Blows?

---

You heard the man! Buff pld dmg to a point where it overshawdows DK by a margin and this wont be an issue anymore.
And so SE should buff shield swipe potency to 30,000. So now, DKs won't have to complain about covers.


Kappa

I like cover drk during a10n steamroller.

@OP

My advice would be to change the title to "please don't use cover whe blood price is up", cuz i'm sure you don't get MP back passively when you're not using that buff.

When Blood Price is down I don't see the problem of being Covered, but maybe i've missed something.

More like PLEASE PLEASE Don't cover just because you can. If we are NOT in danger DON'T COVER. if we are running around trying to avoid mobs THEN perhaps it might be a reason, if we are using Living Dead, the YES pls cover.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Schan

When Blood Price is down I don't see the problem of being Covered, but maybe i've missed something.

---

Can't put Reprisal up if we can't parry. Can't get early resets on Low Blow if we can't parry.
If they could turn it off after getting their Shield Swipe it'd be less of an issue, but since it has to stay up that's 12 seconds without those abilities.
So maybe they wait until Blood Price and Reprisal are both down. That still leaves Low Blow. Thanks to the Low Blows passive parries are essentially worth 30 potency on average. I don't know the exact rate on parrying, but if we were to assume that Dark Dance puts it at around 50% that means every incoming attack is worth an average of 15 potency to the Dark Knight. 10 attacks redirected is all it takes to end up making Shield Swipe hold a neutral effect on overall group potency, any more than that and you start dropping the group.
So Blood Price, Reprisal and maybe Dark Dance, which can be ignored if there's a low rate of incoming swings, all need to be down for Cover to not be an annoyance. A group that frequently works together could easily arrange as such, a random though? They're not going to put that much thought into it.

I was just speaking from a gettin MP back perspective. I wasn't really talking about DPS, but I normally only use DKs in dungeons and I'm not really looking to go max deeps there. I just want my party to get to the end in one piece.

I wouldn't waste the CD on another tank.
A melee DPS so they can ignore a mechanic? Sure
A healer on the verge of death? Absolutely
Another Tank? Why? I'll just tank swap and it would serve the same purpose.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Silver-Strider

I wouldn't waste the CD on another tank.
A melee DPS so they can ignore a mechanic? Sure
A healer on the verge of death? Absolutely
Another Tank? Why? I'll just tank swap and it would serve the same purpose.

---

PLD's cover mechanic has been used in MANY situations where WAR went MT to gain extra DPS, avoid a tank swap and to mitigate tankbusters throughout ARR, you're seeing that same mechanic being used with DRKs, but that will actually lower overall raid DPS when used at the wrong time. So, yea - continue to use the cover mechanic if WAR is going MT and in DPS stance to mitigate and get that shield swipe proc; but lay off with DRKs unless you've discussed it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Llus

PLD's cover mechanic has been used in MANY situations where WAR went MT to gain extra DPS, avoid a tank swap and to mitigate tankbusters throughout ARR, you're seeing that same mechanic being used with DRKs, but that will actually lower overall raid DPS when used at the wrong time. So, yea - continue to use the cover mechanic if WAR is going MT and in DPS stance to mitigate and get that shield swipe proc; but lay off with DRKs unless you've discussed it.

---

The only time I could remember using Cover in ARR content was in T13 for the melee dps to avoid earthshakers and maybe Ramuh ex if the MT wanted to eat orbs instead of swapping to help out the healers from burning everything on the weakened heals they'd end up doing. Maybe I missed something but Cover just never struck me as much use outside those very few instances, especially since WAR was in propectual Defiance anyways back then so there wasn't much need for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bounddreamer

They just want to feel useful when they're off tanking. :(

---

Here, you tank the healers, I'll tank the boss (through you).

:: Somehow those two things work better paired together...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tifu

I've had this happen a couple of times, and it's really, really annoying:

I'm main-tanking in Trial Roulette or something, and the off-tank is a paladin. Usually, this means the paladin will be wearing significantly worse gear than I am, or I OT and DPS.

Nonetheless, during the fight, a little light tether to the PLD will appear, and I get an unremovable buff: "Covered".

This is, as a dark knight, extremely annoying. Not just because it's over-working the healers if the paladin's gear isn't that great, but also because at various points getting hit is where I get my MP from.

Can you all just... not? Unless there's an actual, genuine reason to, which, in Trial Roulette, there absolutely definitely isn't.

---

I'm sick of your comma splices

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EusisLandale

Is it really extra when it comes at the cost of the Dark Knight's MP, Reprisal, and Low Blows?

---

yes, yes it is

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LilLemay

yes, yes it is

---

Can you elaborate?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EusisLandale

Can you elaborate?

---

Cause sometimes it's just amusing to mess with people, and because honestly if there's a DRK and a PLD in a party the chances that you're doing savage content with that tank comp is slim. Which would mean you're probably doing regular alexander or ex primals; in which case it doesn't really matter anyway.

There are rare exceptions when it is generally acceptable, but the golden rule of group content plays very strongly here:

Communication will make you win.

It works in FPS games, it works in MOBAs, and it certainly works in MMOs. Want to know when to cover the DRK? Ask her about it before the fight starts, and whether she wants you to help her cheese certain mechanics. Worst case scenario is that she says no, but you will have earned respect for (1) knowing the fight and (2) actively seeking to coordinate with your teammates.

If u'r about to die to a Tank buster cause u have several vuln stacks or u can't/didn't use u'r "oh shit" button u'r getting a cover MT, thou I'd personally use have liked to use it on a healer in same senario (personally almost never use it, sometimes even forget its there like divine veil due to its moderate CD length & niche use, but as its right becide Hallowed & Provoke for me I made it harder to forget then I could have)

Unless there is a definitive "Mechanic" or "Senario" that demands Cover be used I'll never use it, especially "just" to proc Sheild swipe as OT cause I may need it soon

I will cover who I want when I want. If you don't like it then go whine on the forums about it.

Wait

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tifu

snip

---

I agree with you OP, but I am afraid you are beating a dead horse here. Its the same as asking WHM not to use holy during your blood price.

Aware this discussion is over but I've actually done this a few times - but only if the tank gets chunked down to super low HP and I feel the Healers aren't pre-emptively healing or reacting as soon as possible to the damage. I won't feel bad covering any tank in this scenario as MP is the last of your concerns if you're a hit from death, but I certainly don't waste the CD on randomly covering without reason just because, hey, I can take the damage, let me be helpful hurmagurd!

Dear DRKs,

Please don't pop Dark Art + Dark Dance when you have Blood Price active!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bounddreamer

They just want to feel useful when they're off tanking. :(

---

That kinda depends fight to fight. If 'off tank' means 'get the adds' it is the role that requires both more skill and gear. If it means 'wait for this other bloke to die' then yeah...

When I looked at the cover skill... this looked like something to put on one of the healers... as in... the one that moves too slowly or keeps casting AoE heals b right when adds spawn and then running .... over there somewhere ...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jim_Berry

Dear DRKs,

Please don't pop Dark Art + Dark Dance when you have Blood Price active!

---

Please explain. I believe you still get mana back from misses, doesn't it act like you've been hit? I still get tons of mana with DADD up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsilyi

Please explain. I believe you still get mana back from misses, doesn't it act like you've been hit? I still get tons of mana with DADD up.

---

MP is restored when damage is taken, not necessarily when an attack hits you. Key difference.

Interesting, I just read up on some things regarding that @Canadane/Jim_Berry. I admittedly don't play DRK much and it did seem like I got plenty of mana back even with DADD, but some of the info about how it works and what you really want to do makes a lot of sense. Thanks!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hierro

I'm sick of your comma splices

---

I laughed way too hard at this haha

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsilyi

Please explain. I believe you still get mana back from misses, doesn't it act like you've been hit? I still get tons of mana with DADD up.

---

Dark Arts + Dark Dance give you an increase in Evasion. If you're evading attacks, you're not getting hit or taking damage. Pointless if you have Dark Price up.

Same thing with Dark Arts + Dark Passenger; if you blind the enemy, how can they damage you if they are missing attacks?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by RopeDrink

Aware this discussion is over but I've actually done this a few times - but only if the tank gets chunked down to super low HP and I feel the Healers aren't pre-emptively healing or reacting as soon as possible to the damage. I won't feel bad covering any tank in this scenario as MP is the last of your concerns if you're a hit from death, but I certainly don't waste the CD on randomly covering without reason just because, hey, I can take the damage, let me be helpful hurmagurd!

---

SCENARIO IN SOPHIA EX:
Tank swap is happening...
DRK is MT and still has Grit up but didn't pop a defensive CD...
PLD (me) use Provoke and Scorn...
Sophia looks at me, but turns her attention back to the DRK (he admitted to mistakenly using Dark Arts + Power Slash)...
One healer is dead, the other is in Cleric's...
PLD (me) Covers the DRK while building the Halone combo...
DRK gets upset because he actvated Blood Price and Dark Dance...
PLD (me) shrugs shoulders.

In short, people get upset about anything you do.