Charging for runs.

So with samurai and red mage coming how reasonable would charging gil to level those dps through content as a tank be? Is there any rules against that specifically is what I'm asking because if not I dusting off my heavy armor for stormblood.

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Originally Posted by Freerider

So with samurai and red mage coming how reasonable would charging gil to level those dps through content as a tank be? Is there any rules against that specifically is what I'm asking because if not I dusting off my heavy armor for stormblood.

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I don't know if that would be against the ToS or not but with the expected increase in dps ques you could probably make tons of Gil selling runs for Gil lol

or people will just grind at potd, fates, leves, etc...

Yeah but post 50 potd gets slow. Least in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

or people will just grind at potd, fates, leves, etc...

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DPS will have to run the MSQ dungeons eventually and PotD is probably going to be terrible to level with above 60.

People will almost certainly be doing this unless SE bans it. I know tanks which are talking about this and discussing what a fair price per run would be. Lets face it. Its not like SE can make them run dungeons otherwise and if they aren't charging gil they probably wouldn't be bothering save for FC members and friends. Stoping people from doing will just mean people who have gil would just have to have long queues like everyone else.

Mercenaries are not against rules, but I was always amazed but this game's community undesire to help someone for 'free' like I saw in other games.

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Originally Posted by Freerider

So with samurai and red mage coming how reasonable would charging gil to level those dps through content as a tank be? Is there any rules against that specifically is what I'm asking because if not I dusting off my heavy armor for stormblood.

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I dunno, 10K a DREX run a person as tank sounds reasonable since thats the amount you get from the duty. Most won't think twice and you make a cool 40K for 10-12 minutes of ezy-mode content.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

Mercenaries are not against rules, but I was always amazed but this game's community undesire to help someone for 'free' like I saw in other games.

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I do.

Too bad most DPS players never help me back by start learning proper rotations and do respectable amount of dps.

You'll get called a lot of unsavory names, I'm sure, but there's really nothing stopping you from the exchange of goods and services.

Free economy, suckers.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

Mercenaries are not against rules, but I was always amazed but this game's community undesire to help someone for 'free' like I saw in other games.

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I am happy to help but I have my limits. There is only so many dps I want to carry through dungeons before it starts to feel like a chore and I have a lot of FC members who are looking to level dps.

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Originally Posted by Atlaworks

You'll get called a lot of unsavory names, I'm sure, but there's really nothing stopping you from the exchange of goods and services.

Free economy, suckers.

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I suspect it will be a sellers market. Any tank called a bad name can simply take solace in the knowledge that the dps that made the insult will probably be in their queue for a long time.

Of course we could all be wrong and it could turn out to be a complete non event. We will just have to wait and see.

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Originally Posted by Belhi

I suspect it will be a sellers market. Any tank called a bad name can simply take solace in the knowledge that the dps that made the insult will probably be in their queue for a long time.

Of course we could all be wrong and it could turn out to be a complete non event. We will just have to wait and see.

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Oh, no, I'm not saying it will or will not be a good or even feasible idea to try and sell tanking to other players. I'm just saying, it's a thing you can do.

How well will it work? Hell if I know, I don't buy tanks. I have people to do that for me already.

I mean as far as someone calling me mean names, I'm an adult it really wouldn't bother me. XD

We are already planning to do with my tank.
Why ?
- We don't get new job for ourselves so that's our "bonus" (tank and healer for life)
- We need money for our FC to get a new home ^^
- We need people to have less money to have more chance to get a new home xD

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Originally Posted by Freerider

I mean as far as someone calling me mean names, I'm an adult it really wouldn't bother me. XD

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Same here, plus, he will have to wait longer in his queue ^^

http://i.imgur.com/PEzHFdb.jpg

People have been selling runs for as long as I've been playing (2 1/2 years or so). If it were an issue with the ToS, I imagine something would have been done about it by now. I'm considering the "mercenary" route myself when SB hits. Prices will inevitably depend on what other people are charging. Treat it like the market board and just charge a slightly cheaper price than everyone else haha

I will prob just toss the dungeon into PF with a statement "Tipping is optional", or may invite people in the zone that are at that stage as well or que solo. Hope the tanks have a healer in their back pocket or they to might have a wait in que as well.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

Mercenaries are not against rules, but I was always amazed but this game's community undesire to help someone for 'free' like I saw in other games.

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well, let's be real here, unlike other games, this is a monthly paid sub, and you're using part of your sub to help someone else... if the game had some option to buy it for life for $200 or something then you'd see long time vets willing to help for but a pittance, but otherwise, we're all on the clock, and try to optimize our time.

also lol at how similar the user above me's avatar is; though I did visit aesthetician lately to change my hair.

Well, i hope most tanks at this game are like me, and not little butthurt entitled snowflakes, because lets face it, the single idea of charging for a stupid dungeon run comes from some crybaby going: WAHHH NO TANK NO HEALER THIS EXPAC? Q.Q JUSTCHU WAIT SE, IMMA CHARGE ALL THOSE DPS TILL YOU LEARN Ò.Ó

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Originally Posted by Scremin

Well, i hope most tanks at this game are like me, and not little butthurt entitled snowflakes, because lets face it, the single idea of charging for a stupid dungeon run comes from some crybaby going: WAHHH NO TANK NO HEALER THIS EXPAC? Q.Q JUSTCHU WAIT SE, IMMA CHARGE ALL THOSE DPS TILL YOU LEARN Ò.Ó

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I think its less about punishing dps as much as seeing a potential market. The tanks and healers doing this probably wouldn't be queuing otherwise. I know I am not planning to spend the first week doing nothing but dungeons. Frankly I have enough dps in my FC that I doubt I will want to heal for anyone else just because otherwise I will probably stop enjoying the experience and at the end of the day that is why I play.

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Originally Posted by Scremin

WAHHH NO TANK NO HEALER THIS EXPAC? Q.Q JUSTCHU WAIT SE, IMMA CHARGE ALL THOSE DPS TILL YOU LEARN Ò.Ó

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Yep, and not ashamed at all

I don't see an issue with it. If the healer or tank has no reason to do a dungeon then why not. Me personally I will be too busy levelling my AST and then helping people in my FC. Not actually sure why they wasn't doing it pre Stormblood lol

Depending on how awful the queues are this is something I'd consider. Keep you on a retainer for several dungeon runs and pay you per dungeon. Like 30/40k maybe? I doubt anyone would bother for 1 or 2 dungeon runs but for 5~10 or even 20, they'd 100% consider it for time saved.

Though you'd have to be a great tank with high DPS and adaptable for a healer who will DPS as well. But I'm never adverse to people offering a service.

However this is also a perfect time for tanks to level quickly in the expansion. Everyone will be queueing for content and after a few days, most of those will be doing the 50~60~70 content. It's a tank's dream.

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Originally Posted by Marxam

or people will just grind at potd, fates, leves, etc...

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Except SE could lock out exp gains in PoTD once you reach lvl 60, just like L50 dungeons never gave out exp at launch. As for fates, if SE's smart they'll have learned from the North Thanalan fiasco and make any exp gains in non-SB areas incredibly slow as to not be worth...

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Originally Posted by Scremin

Well, i hope most tanks at this game are like me, and not little butthurt entitled snowflakes, because lets face it, the single idea of charging for a stupid dungeon run comes from some crybaby going: WAHHH NO TANK NO HEALER THIS EXPAC? Q.Q JUSTCHU WAIT SE, IMMA CHARGE ALL THOSE DPS TILL YOU LEARN Ò.Ó

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Were the shoe on the other foot i'm certain there would be an aberrant amount of uproar from the DPS community. There was never a way to please everyone in this situation, someone was always going to be very upset by this decision. That being said, this is one way to let SE know that the Tanking and Healing players out there are not to be so casually over looked. DPS across all MMORPG's that use the trinity have ever had an issue with bloat, while Tank and Healer roles are always under represented. The only sure fire way to bring players to those roles, is to make Job/ Classes that are popular enough to sustain those numbers as to not let those corner stone roles so needed to clear and enjoy content, jump ship to also enjoy the new shiny. People wanted to be cool, black armored, greatsword swinging, abyss magic using, Dark Knights, it actually brought players to the role in a better way than titles and mounts ever did or could. I know, i was one of them. Now? What future job has the pull Samurai could have had to get players to try Tanking? It's an issue and a big one, but it's also an opportunity. What problem is there in Tanks and Healers incentivising themselves when SE wont bother? I probably wont charge for run, but i would not blame anyone for doing so.

https://media.giphy.com/media/dhz1gKi7WKWpW/giphy.gif

You can do it, yes.

But a player like myself would likely just find a friend who's a career tank and run it with them easily. Where I can't find a tank, I'd simply look into alternative methods of leveling. It might be slower, but xp is xp.

Worst case scenario: Attempt a no-tank run. Crazy, yes, but hardly impossible.

Honestly, if they increase the amount of xp you get from HW like they did for ARR, fate parties, daily hunting bills, challenge log, and maybe some POTD might be enough for me to get from 50-60. after 60, I'm hoping some of my FC tanks will be playing a lot lol.

Question is will PotD give xp for lvl 60 and higher? And then the amount of xp. I am sure than 800k xp for floor 41-50 is going to be very small when SB comes out. So they will have to adjust PotD to give out proper XP to help players.

Also the new fates in the new zones. Hopefully they wont make the same mistake with HW and have low xp at the start.

These 2 things will heavily influence queue times. Then you have to look at all the people who are going through as a dps just for story, not leveling.

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Originally Posted by Scremin

Well, i hope most tanks at this game are like me, and not little butthurt entitled snowflakes, because lets face it, the single idea of charging for a stupid dungeon run comes from some crybaby going: WAHHH NO TANK NO HEALER THIS EXPAC? Q.Q JUSTCHU WAIT SE, IMMA CHARGE ALL THOSE DPS TILL YOU LEARN Ò.Ó

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Idk, they did it when NIN came out too, and nobody was really "butthurt" over a new tank and healer not being added with NIN, because it was the middle of ARR. It was just people who sensed a business opportunity and took it. I don't agree with all the hand-wringing going on over no new tank and healer jobs (I fall squarely in the "please fix the ones you have first before adding new ones" camp), but to imply this is some kind of revenge tactic rather than simple in-game economics is kind of silly. It might be for some people, but I doubt it's the case for everyone.

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Originally Posted by Derio

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It's unlikely PotD will give exp past 60 because they have a new deep dungeon planned for SB, but that won't be out with SB release, it will be like when they made it so level 50 dungeons gave no exp.

Either way since jobs start at 50 PotD will likely be the go-to place for 50-60, and 60-70 will depend whether you save your main story quest for SAM/RDM or you grind dungeons and fates, if you choose dungeons you will have a bad time with queues.

I'd pay 20k gil for a story dungeon if the queue was over an hour long. Nothing wrong with asking money for your service, that's why we tip crafters too.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

Mercenaries are not against rules, but I was always amazed but this game's community undesire to help someone for 'free' like I saw in other games.

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This. Imo sell runs are a morally grey area just like an insurance company would be, if there were no "Money Laundering Acts". Benefiting from RMT and then "Well, i don't know where that Money came from and I don't care." is morally questionable at least. But it's mainly due to the inflatet(/high) prices, that this is an issue and that selling linkshells act like cartells (kicking/blaming/harrasing people who undercut).

So selling tank services for appropriate prices or just tips should be less of an issue.

But I don't get those people, too, i just like to join random kill groups. My personal achievment for this expansion will be to get all the burbs per kill group.

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

Idk, they did it when NIN came out too, and nobody was really "butthurt" over a new tank and healer not being added with NIN, because it was the middle of ARR. It was just people who sensed a business opportunity and took it. I don't agree with all the hand-wringing going on over no new tank and healer jobs (I fall squarely in the "please fix the ones you have first before adding new ones" camp), but to imply this is some kind of revenge tactic rather than simple in-game economics is kind of silly. It might be for some people, but I doubt it's the case for everyone.

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Just search around the forums and you will see its not economics, at least for me its just another post of lets not queue for df, lets charge for runs, so I stand by what i said. Idiotic idea like those will only split the community even more. This game is supposed to be played with a group, as in helping each other, for christ sake, not DPS VS HEALERS AND TANKS, and childish attitudes like that only makes it even worse.

So yeah, for me, doing something that would potentially ruin the fun of another player just because they aren't happy with a game is being "butthurt", and the few that will try it for just for profit alone, well, are equally bad, just in another way.

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Originally Posted by Scremin

Just search around the forums and you will see its not economics, at least for me its just another post of lets not queue for df, lets charge for runs, so I stand by what i said. Idiotic idea like those will only split the community even more. This game is supposed to be played with a group, as in helping each other, for christ sake, not DPS VS HEALERS AND TANKS, and childish attitudes like that only makes it even worse.

So yeah, for me, doing something that would potentially ruin the fun of another player just because they aren't happy with a game is being "butthurt", and the few that will try it for just for profit alone, well, are equally bad, just in another way.

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I don't know about most healers but I am going to be likely doing all my roulettes and my dungeon runs with FC members who are dps. Beyond that I am unlikely to use DF, at least early on, because just helping out my FC members is going to more than give me my fill of dungeon running early in the expansion. If I chose to run a dungeon beyond that it would probably require some incentive to convince me it's worth my while cause I am probably going to have little interest in running a levelling dungeon the 38th time just so some dps I don't know can have a shorter queue.

There is going to be a shortage. To get tanks and healers to run repeatedly, even more than they might want to, and make the queues more manageable, there needs to be sufficient incentive. Leveling dungeons generally aren't that rewarding. I play the game to enjoy myself. I don't feel that I need to take the burden of dealing with a situation caused by the developers.

If SE was adverse to this kind of practice (selling runs), they could always increase the DF tank queue bonuses and "first time run" bonuses. Better in-game encouragement to take on the additional challenges would increase the number of people who are happy to run people through for these bonuses, rather than raising the reward themselves.

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Originally Posted by SuperZay

Mercenaries are not against rules, but I was always amazed but this game's community undesire to help someone for 'free' like I saw in other games.

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Personally I see this as a way to show SE my disapointment. Of course I like to join party just to help and even if someone can't pay I know I would do it anyway if it can avoid that person to be locked being story dungeon.
The idea behind this is to show how bad it is to add 2 DPS at the same time, you don't need to be a dev to know that, just to play your game....
(and also because I'm disapointed I won't enjoy a new healing concept for the next 2 years -_-)

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Originally Posted by Scremin

Just search around the forums and you will see its not economics, at least for me its just another post of lets not queue for df, lets charge for runs, so I stand by what i said. Idiotic idea like those will only split the community even more. This game is supposed to be played with a group, as in helping each other, for christ sake, not DPS VS HEALERS AND TANKS, and childish attitudes like that only makes it even worse.

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Then SE should stop trying to split the community.
- Casu kicked from groups when first timers Vs Hardcore selling runs
- Those having multiple houses Vs those having none
- Those getting 2 new class to play with Vs tank and healer

The community is already splitted :/
Why not add one of each like HW ? ol the jobs were not balanced at first but at least queue were fast when doing haukke manor ^^"

While I do not believe that is against ToS I highly doubt you are going to get much "business". I plan on leveling RDM and SAM outside of dungies. We may not know for sure yet, but I'm very sure PoTD will be more than enough to get them up to pace.

From a moral standpoint: I have a lvl 60 SCH that I use when people need help and I'm currently lvl in a DRK for the same reason. I would never ever dream of charging someone for simple dungeon runs, hardcore content maybe but not MSQ stuff. Just like I do not accept tips when I craft for people. Like others have said this game is based around cooperation and I feel, IMHO, that we should all just help each other out when the oppurtunity arises.

Semi-off-topic, but the fact that this thread even exists should be a deeply troubling sign for SE. Yoshi-P's whole stance of 'we're not worried about it because most of the DRK / AST players in Heavensward were already playing tanks / healers' is incredibly naive. He might end up being correct, but his logic is flawed.

As for me, while I play a healer, I have no plans on charging for anything. I mean, seriously, what's the point? It's not like gil is hard to make in this game; I'd vastly prefer spending my time enjoying myself than essentially being a dungeon prostitute.

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Originally Posted by Freerider

Yeah but post 50 potd gets slow. Least in my opinion.

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At 15-20 minutes per run and no more than seven runs per level, it's really not that bad. It certainly slows down post 50, but so does everything else.

To charge gill is in no way against the rules if your hiring someone, however there are some alternatives.


Personally I see it in two ways,

First couple of days, like most expansions, it will most likely be over crowded and lots of DC's. Unless SE has learned for the past and is preparing server congestion, I would recommend to start getting ready. Here are some steps tips that can help that shortage of tanks and healers.

1. Set up a team of 4 and rotate the roles Tank and Healing. Everybody gets a chance. It doesn't have to me a maxed out tank, even at low levels you can get nice XP as a sync and faster kills.

2. If you get an 8 man you can do raids and faster when you have 8 people set up. again rotate roles.

3. If you want to get one of the new jobs to 70 first, grin it out to 60 first and then do story. Chances are by doing quest and story one to lvl 70 is guaranteed.

4. Update your hunts a date before and while you wait you can take advantage of that xp, You can also do best man tribes if you haven't for tomes, currency, materia. a good time killer.

Second, if you want to go solo, focus on those crafts you haven't done while you wait. less of lag issues, rather than fate grinding. Shouting and getting too many people. Hint: Start doing your squad rewards for DoH and DoL xp scrolls by the time you get those to 70 chances are it will be easier to find parties. You can also flood the market with HQ items and make decent gill just don't go over board. THERE WILL BE A HIGH DEMAND FOR HQ ITEMS. So know the leves.

My thoughts on PoD;

I didn't grind mine so not sure if you get xp per mob towards your main job or just the floor boss xp that counts. I just mainly used it for tome farming for relics, V materia, and kiana weps. My advice, take into consideration it may be over crowded, too many dc's and zoning in will be a nightmare.

Delvie is an option,

Perhaps old areas and if you have a friend or FC who will lend you an airship Good luck. Main reason I made my own FC, few members, so if anyone needs an airship in Balmung I wouldn't mind doing a squad. Ic an just farm on my own or join depending on a group. My airships are mainly used to farm Anima relic items for sand yet will have them open for people who are interested. That is one way I plan to level up.

I hope these help. Also if anyone in Balmung is interested inf forming a level up static look me up.

I'm not sure why people keep seeing it as immoral.

Is it immoral for a crafter to ask for compensation for his time even if you provide mats? Selling runs is no different from this, you're paying for someone's time and effort.

Selling runs does not mean people will stop helping other players, just like selling crafter services does not mean people will stop helping others with free crafts or melds, you're paying that player a premium to stop doing whatever he's doing and help you with a content clear where you don't even have to remain alive.