As title stated above. I've never seen a SCH from unranked to gold perform decent at all. Is there a certain playstyle they have to approach? Or are they just underpowered.
Are SCHs weak?
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02-17-2017, 07:39 AMArisatoAre SCHs weak?
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02-17-2017, 08:20 AMCulfinrandir
Not underpowered at all, just need to be used in a certain way. A lot of people have a go at me when I suggest a better way to play SCH in PVP (reddit practically burned down my home XD). I think a lot of value lies in the 'bonus' effects of spells & the like (some refer to it as crowd control I think), alongside the healing, but apparently that's not acceptable in PVP where healing is the only thing you are allowed to do. It's preferable to stand around idle than use a non-heal action, or so I've had drummed into me.
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02-17-2017, 09:25 AMMurph
Try killing Rum Raisin...
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02-17-2017, 11:45 AMMakavelii
Scholar in PvP Kappa - SCH Main
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02-17-2017, 11:46 AMMakavelii
Everyone knows SCH is by far the weakest Healer for PvP.. Please don't steer this poor soul in the wrong direction
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02-17-2017, 03:39 PMAviars
Scholar is the weakest in s3
In s1 and s2 scholar got stronger as the season progressed when more of the good players stopped queing. The worse the dps got on a team, the better adlo shields become. Pmuch why scholars always jumped up in the ranked by the latter half of those seasons. -
02-18-2017, 12:21 AMSlibI don't think it's more so adlo being better because dps got worse than it is people breaking WHM sleeps randomly due to no common sense. Regen would be even better if DPS got worse because it would out heal their damage in that case.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aviars
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02-18-2017, 12:31 AMKai_LeeRum is exceptionally good, but Rum is the only sch on the top 100 on the primal DC and the only sch on the primal DC? I don't remember being in a team with any other sch. I strongly think sch needs more CC abilities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Murph
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02-18-2017, 05:33 AMAviarsRegen ticks are subject to overhealing, the shields are not. Also when the dps got worse, melee lb and things like brd burst become more important and game changing, and adlo can effectively nullify it better against bad dps that can't follow through.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slib
I mean, think of it this way, regen allows you to get into mercy stroke range, adlo won't. -
02-18-2017, 08:47 AMKyani
Scholar is really hampered by the lack of scope of The Feast - things like Regen & Repose get better the fewer attackers there are; whereas Scholar's higher potency direct heals (~800 potency / gcd, before lustrate) get better as incoming damage increases. There's nothing actually wrong with Scholar in PvP specifically (just PvE things like raising with no pet or Aetherflow) but it will always suffer in the environment of Feast because Feast's sustained damage simply isn't high enough relative to burst for its strengths to show.
That said, give Scholar / Summoner their Heavy back. There's no reason for it to not be available when SCH and SMN are widely percieved as the weakest in their roles. -
02-18-2017, 09:27 AMCanadane
For the first couple seasons I did pure SCH. Not sure if anyone remembers me, but I did get gold at one point (and promptly deranked back to silver lol).
I quit the feast for various reasons, but when played right a SCH holds their own to any other healer. It's not without its weaknesses but it's certainly viable. -
02-19-2017, 06:50 AMAma_Hamada
SCH by far is the weakest of the 3 healers in PvP
No sacred prism
No fluid arua (just a piss poor aoe knockback that will never hit anyone while moving because servers are slow in processing information)
No bind, see ^
We do get a cross class blizzard II but I do not really consider it good since the range is so short
No stun
No AoE stun (holy)
No sleep
No heavy
We do not have much tools at PvP, the only thing we have going for us is instant drop cure II power heals. AST tends to mimic this more freely and when we use up all our stacks and dissipation, we are useless since without that, there is no way we can heal though bursts, like the other 2 healers can with less restrictions.
also medica/ medica II vs succor..... -
02-23-2017, 04:12 AMAdamZ? The reason SCH is consider weaker is because it lacks CC compared to the other 2....Quote:
Originally Posted by Culfinrandir
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02-23-2017, 05:11 AMGeologo
The trouble I have with SCH mostly is his recover from a death, and his MP management,
if I spam Adlo people will stay alive, but after 2 min you can say goodbye to your MP pool.
If I use dissipation I'll probably have to use Swiftcast to resummon Eos (huge mp cost) and you have to wait 30 sec before you will able to do it. -
02-23-2017, 07:29 PMCulfinrandirBind, blind, slow, Malady (healing debuff), STR/DEX/INT/MND debuff (Virus), Skill Speed debuff, knock back & silence are all there. Heavy was too until the PVP community complained SCH was too strong at CC. It can't be said that it lacks Crowd Control because they are there, although not all are as AoE as they could be.Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamZ
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02-23-2017, 10:52 PMKusoWat
Ok, I wasn't going to post here but it's getting out of hand with misinformation...
Scholar is, by a HUGE margin, the worst healer in The Feast. It simply does not have the tools to hand GOOD dps, and is severely gimped due to lack of CC options and the obvious finger pointing at the fairy. Not spawning with stacks is no an issue. If you died and still had stacks, that's your fault, not the job. It's not different than when a WHM uses benediction but it doesn't go off in time.
Under no circumstance should anyone pick up scholar in it's current state. People are referencing Rum Raisin from Primal, but Rum also has the lowest win rate of pretty much every healer.
Scholar is NOT good in the Feast.
You should NOT play scholar if you want to succeed.
Bottom line. -
02-24-2017, 01:49 AMAma_HamadaI agree dying with stacks is your fault, but this is a bad comparison. THE only thing that is at fault with that is server side lag and slow processing issues, nothing else. There is something severly wrong when you need to predict when to use instant heals, it is no different then Lustrate, i casted it on people before but have it not work, and yet I have a stack used because the servers are too damn slow. At the very least I should not have lustrate trigger, as in using a stack, same with benediction failing but goes on CD.Quote:
Originally Posted by KusoWat
SE should have better balancing, I did not play Scholar as my first and currently only job because it was the worst PvP healer, how was i suppose to know on the select screen? Again that is on SE, not us.
We do not have a knockback, aura blast sucks and often fails if people are moving (again blame the slow servers) along with the distance being piss poor, and too long cooldown. I pick fluid aura over it any day. Also LOL@ using long **** cooldowns and act like we have CC. No one uses Selene, period. trying to argue using her for a pos 1 second silence that needs micro management, something that is not humanly possible is very ignorant. Stop inflating what SCH can do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Culfinrandir
Also our "bind" is piss poor range that needs to be cross class. SCH is way too weak in PvP and that should be a fact. -
02-24-2017, 02:10 AMAkimitsuNot to contradict the fact that SCH is indeed the worst of the 3 healers, just gonna point out that even if he does have a low winrate this season it's hardly his fault. If his personnal skill had a higher weight Rum would probably be at the very top of the list. His awareness and team support is nearly unequalled. He's just dealing with the limitations of his job and the matchmaking.Quote:
Originally Posted by KusoWat
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02-24-2017, 02:32 AMKyaniOkay, i'm gonna take the bait: If Scholar respawned with a fairy, and kept their stacks through death, they would be at least as good as AST, and pretty competitive with White Mage even at the highest level. You lose so much to having to make that resummon that it makes any other problems with the class look like peanuts by comparison - not only does dying wreck you normally, but intentionally dying for mana is almost completely off the table.Quote:
Originally Posted by KusoWat
I'm not going to say the class doesn't have problems (because it does), but the real reason you don't see any Scholars in feast is a bit simpler - it's not fun to learn. Scholar's skill floor is incredibly low compared to WHM and AST, and SCH doesn't play anything like it does in PVE. A new Scholar will do a hell of a lot of losing while you get your bearings, and it's pretty likely that they'll switch to try WHM/AST or simply quit before they get good at it.
(Also, a bit more editorialized, but Feast healing is kind of awful in general compared to Frontline healing; and Scholar is the Frontline healing God. There's a few Scholars I know of that only Frontline nowadays because of how night-and-day the class feels there compared to Feast. There's a good goddamn reason why Feast queues wait on healers.) -
02-24-2017, 04:53 AMKusoWatIt's his choice to play a one-trick SCH. This choice makes him worse than the other healers that play AST or WHM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Akimitsu
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02-25-2017, 03:24 AMAraxes
I did top 100 in S2 with my Sch. Mostly because it was the only healer i had on 60 at that time and queues for Tanks and DPS were horror. So i "trained" Sch in Frontlines before joining Rated Feast matches. it took a while but if you learn to play Sch properly in pvp its pretty good. It also feels more Rewarding entering the Top with a job thats considered weak. But that might just be a thing i have personaly.
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02-25-2017, 03:58 AMAviars
thing is they weren't weak in s2 due to the demographics and rating system
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02-25-2017, 05:15 AMKyaniThe hate was just as strong then as it is now. Hell, it may have been worse - you couldn't play Scholar on Aether without a bunch of high-and-mighty high-end players telling you to stop queueing; that you were the reason they lost even when they messed up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aviars