Why a tank need to dps at all?

I mean our jobs is just to hold aggro right? Can't I just like /sit after spamming flash/overpower/unleash? As long as aggro is build, why should i keep dpsing if i know i won't lose aggro during the whole fight.

Low-tier bait, OP.

Low. Tier. Bait.

Of course, anyone who tells you to dps is just a DD that needs to learn their job!

tongue-in-cheek

According to the "experts" on these forums, DPSing as a Tank or Healer isn't important at all. You can just sit there and AFK after aggro's done, let the DPS jobs bust their asses, after all you're paying your sub right? Your money is worth much more than theirs, go ahead and do whatever you want.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aramina

Of course, anyone who tells you to dps is just a DD that needs to learn their job!

---

Also, if that DPS is taking aggro from you, he must tone down his dps!

I'm honestly getting really tired of these threads.

This would've been better as a response to one of these "I only heal" threads, and not its own thread.

Sweet! Guess i'll just remove those annoying DPS skill from my hotbar. Why would I even need storm eyes for? The only other slash dps is ninja and he can apply the debuff himself anyway. Storm path for reduced dmg + heal? Isn't the jobs of healer to heal anyway? Can't take he's only job away right?

Absolutely. Also, take off Resurrection if you're a Summoner, don't bother with Apocatastasis/Manawall/Manaward as BLM because those lazy healer players can just do that. And if they die and wipe you, just kick them, you're not there to keep the team alive, they are.

It's your sub, play how you like :rolleyes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xx-ReiN-xX

I mean our jobs is just to hold aggro right? Can't I just like /sit after spamming flash/overpower/unleash? As long as aggro is build, why should i keep dpsing if i know i won't lose aggro during the whole fight.

---

Damage incease your enmity.

If the thread is a parody about the healer dps complains, make it that a healer damage heal everyone in the party with 1 HP each dmg point, then we can compare those two roles.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by vp_cmc

Also, if that DPS is taking aggro from you, he must tone down his dps!

---

except monks. Enmity control is not something monks have to do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Felis

Damage incease your enmity.

---

And dealing damage reduces the damage people take by making the mob die faster, thus functions like a shield.
Moreover, you do not need to increase your enmity when you already have aggro, just as you do not need to heal when nobody is hurt.

Let's not start the comparisons and keep trolling, aye? This thread should get the amount of seriousness it deserves. Which is none.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zojha

And dealing damage reduces the damage people take by making the mob die faster, thus functions like a shield.
Moreover, you do not need to increase your enmity when you already have aggro, just as you do not need to heal when nobody is hurt.

Let's not start the comparisons and keep trolling, aye?

---

tanks can still lose aggro, if he build up less enmity than the dps and healers during the fight

Please don't fall for this guys.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Felis

tanks can still lose aggro, if he build up less enmity than the dps and healers during the fight

---

I kept aggro fine throughout the fight. In tank stance, 3x overpower + berserk and your good for the whole group of trash. On boss Unchained + berserk and 3x BB combo and you can just sit there and wait while the rest burn them down and keep me healed.

Tryhards really need to do better at this. They're way too predictable and their delivery leaves tons to be desired. They really are an embarrassment to the elitist forum boards.

Oh praise halone, I can finally take Mantra and second wind off my hotbar, since as a monk, my job is to DPS, if I take aggro and die, it's the tanks fault for not doing their job and holding aggro and the healers fault for not doing their job and healing me fast enough

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xx-ReiN-xX

I mean our jobs is just to hold aggro right? Can't I just like /sit after spamming flash/overpower/unleash? As long as aggro is build, why should i keep dpsing if i know i won't lose aggro during the whole fight.

---

No dice, try harder

So do you suggest that hitting with a huge sword or axe should do no damage?

Besides the sarcasm of the post, I think a better understanding of what the people want is whats needed to be understood. (And of course, if they still dont understand why DPS is important, they need a proper explanation as well.)

In FFXIV, obviously maximizing DPS is important (along with many other MMOs)
But some people like the idea of each role being specialized in different roles, with little to even no overlap.
Meaning, as a tank, they dont want "3 modes" where they;
(1) High Threat, low DPS (tank stance, Threat Combo)
(2) Mid Threat, mid DPS (Tank stance, DPS combo, or Threat combo in DPS stance)
(3) Low Threat, high DPS (DPS stance, DPS combo)

Your choices are More Threat, or more DPS. (In actions)
With the choice of stance being passive. (More threat/mitigation, or more DPS)

They would enjoy an MMO where the options are more like how WHM picks heals.
Low Heal, MP effective. High Heal, MP ineffective.

Choosing between burst and sustained threat, and maintaining resources through out.
In essence, they want a role who has more diverse options in threat (or in my case, more options in mitigation, as I find mitigating dmg fun, not so much healing/dpsing)
If every ability played IDENTICAL to the class right now, but instead of more DPS, just had more threat/mitigation, they would be far more likely to do optimal rotations then. (except of course fights with bosses who dont hit hard, will lead to people who will favor threat or mitigation, and not both)

Because this game, liek many other MMOs, lacks a system around threat only, but trivializes it into "always use the same thing over and over for threat", they dont fully see or understand the DPS crowd, and just view their job with their own fantasy. (Also doesnt help the lowest levels are harder on threat, and thats the only thing praise worthy from a low level tank, with the highest priority of maximizing. So they will only continue to find ways of being EVEN BETTER at the thing they got praised for in the past)

You cant just say "Dont be slightly less efficient!" because all that sounds like, is complaining over spilled milk to them.
You need to explain how easier content is the best way to practice what to do for harder content, BEFORE you get there.
Then they need to understand WHY the harder content asks for more DPS of healers and tanks.
And lastly, HOW it can be done, rather than just say, "It can be done, trust me".

Because I like finishing duties QUICKLY..

I also out DPS bad DPS.. When I OT in raids. I out DPS many dps.

Is this the new thing? Creating response threads to other threads? No wonder the devs don't spend much time here or take us seriously.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Azper

Is this the new thing? Creating response threads to other threads?

---

This has always been a thing, and most of the time a lot worse than nowadays.

On topic:
Actually, the answer to this thread is pretty simple - yes, you have to dps as a tank. Because, contrary to healer dps, tank dps is factored in by the devs when adjusting the difficulty and dps requirements of a fight.
So if you refuse to dps as a tank and your group fails any sort of dps check, it's not the dps slacking off, it's actually your fault and your fault alone :)

One needs look no further than the solemn tales of patch 3.05:


On that fateful morning our brave adventurer's gained access to Alexander Savage; AS3 to be precise. This 12.5 minute fight happily greeted 'Aggro-only!' Tanks and 'Cure-only!' Healers with a swift demise. These hopeless souls found themselves enraging at 10% while donning even the fullest set of i210 Esoterics gear (with a plentiful smattering of A1S and A2S drops on the side.)


Hope seemed to be forever lost until one day the current meta shone it's light upon these pour souls. Tanks realized they had to pump out as much DPS as possible by Tanking in DPS stance for 95% of the fight, wearing a full set of penta-melded STR accessories, speccing full strength, using crit and det BiS items, and guzzling down STR potions (and draconian enimas.) And that was just to pass the soft enrages.


Noble Paladins, through no fault of their own, statistically dealt 200 less dps than the 'new car smell' Dark Knights. And thus, if you brought a Paladin to A3S, you had to perform a flawless run just to get a glimpse at 3% wipes. The RNG crit rate Gods had to be in your favor. Your Monk couldn't lose his stacks. No one could lag, blink, or cough at the wrong time. And then maybe... you'd get your first clear.


I personally believe that the enrage timer on this fight was far too strict. Though, I also believe that the victors of this fight finally caught a glimpse at what Tanks and Healers were seriously capable of. Our DPS was actually.. sexy?! The raiding meta has gone through some changes since then but figuring out how to maximize your DPS has not diminished in importance.


Mind you, it's not like its against the rules to flash spam / cure spam / and 1,2,3 spam your way through easy content. However, every time I see a Tank or Healer out-dpsing equally geared DPS I can't help but give them my silent respect. Followed by a /salute at the end of the run for playing their class to its highest potential.


(Though, years later, this is all just copy and paste at this point.)

BARE WITNESS TO MINE WILL

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Galactimus

This 12.5 minute fight happily greeted 'Aggro-only!' Tanks and 'Cure-only!' Healers with a swift demise. These hopeless souls found themselves enraging at 10% while donning even the fullest set of i210 Esoterics gear (with a plentiful smattering of A1S and A2S drops on the side.)

---

Technically it was focused more so in healers adding DPS, as "tanks" adding DPS was already calculated in 2.x raids. (The difference in a MTs DPS is so minimal in comparison to adding healer DPS, since they were already attacking every round, even if it was just threat combo)

The biggest problems were lack of healers experience in DPSing while healing, and even more so, the new rotations expected of DPS, that many people hadnt quite gotten down, as now maintaining stacks between mechanics wasnt just a MNK thing.
people had to learn when they could or couldnt blow CDs.

Once those 2 things were dealt with, THIS is what got you to a 3% wipe. Increasing the MT DPS more helped pushed past 3%. (technically making a single rotation mistake as a DPS also could net u a 1%+ wipe, even with DPSing MTs.)

If anything a MTs DPS was arguably the only place where they could mess up the DPS, and see the least punishment for it. (Also PLD DPS was 100 behind DRK, but 200+ behind WAR)

Better not get in a group with me then. I am there to tank and keep aggro not dps. I do not dps on my tanks, if I want to dps then I will go on a dps job.

There is no requirement to dps as a tank, our job is to keep aggro so they can do their job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Xx-ReiN-xX

I mean our jobs is just to hold aggro right? Can't I just like /sit after spamming flash/overpower/unleash? As long as aggro is build, why should i keep dpsing if i know i won't lose aggro during the whole fight.

---

I WOULD say that I was sorry that I didn't meet your ridiculous expectations for what numbers tanks should be pulling, but that isn't my problem.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Accelerating

Better not get in a group with me then. I am there to tank and keep aggro not dps. I do not dps on my tanks, if I want to dps then I will go on a dps job.

There is no requirement to dps as a tank, our job is to keep aggro so they can do their job.

---

There will come a time when you survive based on the duration, not just the severity, of your and your healer's cooldowns. Should the fight end before your eHP, given HPS, bottoms out, you win. If you do not, you die, and your party shortly thereafter. At that point, lying dead, a thought may occur to you—"had I dealt 400 more dps, I'd have been taking would be taking 30% less damage at the end of that trailing Foresight due to all the smaller mobs having been dead", and your healer will likely be having the thought "well, if I knew he was going to make me overheal the first 8 seconds, I would have AoEed for its added mitigation."

Well, probably not, because for you damage, mitigation, and healing required are apparently somehow separate, despite that each determines the other...
And this works in every direction. If a DPS fails to burn down an especially deadly mob in time, you can't just pin that on the tank and healer when the tank dies and the party follows. That survival "role" falls on the DPS, too.

So please, stop purposely taking your "role" out of context. They don't even exist. Only toolkits do, and accordant conventions.

God damnit people still find a way to argue even in an obvious troll thread. These forums never cease to amuse me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I'm not getting the joke.

---

She's making fun of some idiotic healer who said basically the same thing in another thread.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rennies

She's making fun of some idiotic healer who said basically the same thing in another thread.

---

Sorry I don't check people's post history every time I make a reply.

(Oddly enough I do most times, just not that one.)

Edit: Since you seem to somehow take this personally on I'm-not-even-sure-at-this-point-whose behalf, my post was in response to the person I (gasp) quoted, whose sarcasm, given its exact similarity to other non-sarcastic posts of the same content, was ambiguous to me, not to the OP, whose sarcasm was clear.

These forums need a "clutter" sub-forum where threads like this can go to (hopefully) be ignored and die.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Galaktica

Low-tier bait, OP.

Low. Tier. Bait.

---

Looks like you and 40 others are the only ones who took it seriously.

Is not that WE have to dps while tanking, but sometimes, like in roulettes, it helps if we DPS cos the the things just go faster. like it or not, as a WAR, when we have a good enmity we can deal some good DPS to help the party go on faster.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Yasuhiro

Looks like you and 40 others are the only ones who took it seriously.

---

...h-how did we take it seriously?

I dunno sounded like you were reacting seriously to what was a response to a silly healer in another thread when this thread is a joke one.
Wouldn't surprise me if there were people like that tho, cant tell with this place anymore.

No wonder the devs think we're bunch of lazy entit- oh wait we are crap, well if you're in my group and you're the OT doing less DPS than the healers you're getting a swift boot from the group. As a warrior you have no excuse they are literally the best tank in the game might as well play a crafter and stop wasting our time in duties. I really wish people use their toolkit instead of ignoring half of it that's why we have Ice Mages, healers who don't DPS, bards with their voices silenced, and tanks who wanna sit there and be a slow ass turtle tank, there's no drive to be better in this game for the run of the mill person.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Accelerating

Better not get in a group with me then. I am there to tank and keep aggro not dps. I do not dps on my tanks, if I want to dps then I will go on a dps job.

There is no requirement to dps as a tank, our job is to keep aggro so they can do their job.

---

Id like to present a hypothetical.

Lets say you run with the some group on some sort of raid content, time after time.

After the 3rd threat combo, lets say your group is so far behind in threat, you KNOW you cant lose hate, even if you did nothing, because one day lag hit too hard, and you literally didnt do anything for 20s. Yet after the lag, you were still miles ahead in threat. (I know its exaggerated)

You can either
(1) use a threat combo
or
(2) use 1 single DPS combo

during that same point in the fight, each time u get there in future runs.

You already know whats going to happen, but do you purposely choose to use a threat or a DPS combo there?

This is basically what is being asked here.

In similar context, if you were a PLD, and you were fighting a boss with no adds, and a DPS check, would you either
(1) spam flash (as it generates more threat than a full threat combo in 3 GCDs worth of time) until out of MP, use threat combo, until you can flash againm repeating a flash every time you gain the MP for it. (Excluding when FoF is up, as im not sure if this beats Flash in threat or not anymore.)
or
(2) Use your threat combo only, never using flash on a single target, despite being less over all threat, but higher DPS?

Im fairly sure what you already do, and if you do these things, you're honestly already trying to do what people are asking of you. (They arent trying to force anything crazy, just that people use the highest damaging attack, AFTER they have both Threat, and Survival handled.)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

Sorry I don't check people's post history every time I make a reply.

(Oddly enough I do most times, just not that one.)

---

It has nothing to do with this guy's post history