Would a spell like Auto-Life work in this game?

Taken from the FF wiki

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Reraise (リレイズ, Rireizu), also known as Life 3 or Auto-Life, is a recurring White Magic spell from the Final Fantasy series. It bestows the status of the same name that automatically revives an ally the next time he or she is knocked out.

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I think this will be a really useful ability for the White Mage to have, sometimes when a healer dies in a boss fight that means your whole party is going to have to start the fight over again if the boss has still a large amount of HP like say 35% left, almost dead but you're not going to kill it realistically, anyway, a white mage or any other healer could cast on themselves if they're about to die and they can be revived in a weakened state.

What do you think?

It could, most healer in most mmorpg game should have spell that similar like this, i even post it in this forum somewhere months ago lol

My version is like, has xxx cooldown, cast to someone and persist on that target for x second, when target recieve fatal damage it heals him instead up to 40-50% of his hp, if it nothing happen the effect will gone and your cooldown is cut by xx seconds

I think it would work, or at the very least it wouldn't break the game in any way from my view of things. However, I believe it would have to be restricted to self-cast only. It's still going to be on the healer to raise fallen comrades. I'm used to it now, but it is quite a bit of pressure in 4-man content to make sure you don't die since more likely than not, if you fall, so does the group. Heavy are the hands that hold the heals.

A self-only reraise spell doesn't necessarily have to be on a long cooldown. If the healer is still weakened as normal after the reraise, then the weakness/BrinkOfDeath coupled with the obscene cost of a raise spell would make it prohibitively expensive and harder to abuse.

Yes, that's smth WHM should have.

Dungeons and Dragons online went with the debuff upfront route.

You can choose to cast reraise on yourself but you will loose constitution (vitality) for the reminder of the dungeon. The tradeoff is very fair and you usually wanted to do this but since the debuffed stacks you want to consider twice wheater you want to recast it a second or third time.

Dragoons would be wholly in favour of this! :p

White Mage is the weakest healer in the game I doubt "Reraise" would really make them overpowered if anything it might make them more desirable. I mean if you really think a Healer with Reraise is overpowered then scholar should definitely be nerfed to the ground because nothing is more overpowered than 2 healers at the same time 24/7 with a limitless resource.

No one said anything about White Mage being overpowered I just said it'd probably have to be on high cool down.
I see Re-raise as a "just incase" spell anyway.

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Originally Posted by Yasuhiro

No one said anything about White Mage being overpowered I just said it'd probably have to be on high cool down.
I see Re-raise as a "just incase" spell anyway.

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I think it should function like SSII cannot be used during combat that's about the only restriction it needs so it cannot be abused it should only be a second chance ability like hallowed ground, living dead, holmgang.

Well I expect those high level spells to appear sooner or later. Although Reraise is usually after Arise (full revival) and is White Magic.
Often tagged with hefty MP cost so I think that'll be a fairer trade off than 10minute cooldowns (say half of max mp a cast, effect lasts 30s, single target, revived person is brought back with normal raise hp and no mp/tp as usual.

I personally would like to get Arise first as WHM only skill then Reraise at around level 80-90.
We'll hopefully get Curaja next as well or something cool like Dia(-ga), Dispel, Blink, Teleport, Bravery, Faith, Haste, Silence and Reflect.

It already exists in one form:

http://xivdb.com/action/6868/poterie...ute;surrection

I could see it being a new ability come expansion.

There was talk a while ago, I think in a live letter, that they said they were considering reworking Phoenix downs to be reraise items instead of raise.

Well, as long as the status is ignored for boss ultimates, I can see it happening.

I doubt they'd give players the ability to easily cheese any mechanic that results in an insta-wipe via auto-res plus healer LB3, tho.

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Originally Posted by Zojha

Well, as long as the status is ignored for boss ultimates, I can see it happening.

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The game already handles that. Even if you accept a raise during a failed boss signature attack, raising too early will cause the attack to re-kill you, and if you raise after the attack's damage happens, everyone will be at 0 hate because they're all dead and you just raised, so the boss will reset to 100% and kill you once you're up again.

What is up with these ridiculous CD timers people suggest lately?
10 mins? You do realize that's longer than even the hardest fight in the game currently right?

Same CD as Benediction would suffice. As the raise takes effect, weakness should not take effect either.

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Originally Posted by Exiled_Tonberry

What is up with these ridiculous CD timers people suggest lately?
10 mins? You do realize that's longer than even the hardest fight in the game currently right?

Same CD as Benediction would suffice. As the raise takes effect, weakness should not take effect either.

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I'm sorry my harmless suggestion followed by "...or something" ruined your day. You weren't supposed to take it seriously because I sure as hell didn't. I'll edit it for you.

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Originally Posted by Rongway

The game already handles that. Even if you accept a raise during a failed boss signature attack, raising too early will cause the attack to re-kill you, and if you raise after the attack's damage happens, everyone will be at 0 hate because they're all dead and you just raised, so the boss will reset to 100% and kill you once you're up again.

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Happened to me during a Scathach fight. And the healer was standing where she spawns. So everyone died. I came back. She turned and slapped me and I was dead again.

On topic I could see it lasting until used and being self only and unable to use in combat for balance. Or unswiftable with a long cast time.

It not only can work, it's already in the game.

Of course, where it is... it's sort of a throwback to older style MMOs. Strong mobs, less emphasis on mechanics more and more emphasis on handling situations as things go wrong, etc.

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Originally Posted by Yasuhiro

I'm sorry my harmless suggestion followed by "...or something" ruined your day. You weren't supposed to take it seriously because I sure as hell didn't. I'll edit it for you.

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I wasn't offended by it. Sorry if it sounded as such.
Was just stating how everyone seems to want to give anything even remotely good a ridiculously long CD timer.

Honestly it doesn't even need a CD timer. Just something simple like it not being able to be applied to more than one person at a time.
If you attempt to apply it to someone else, the effect on the first person will disappear.

It could be a very neat mechanic for WHM, because goodness knows the "pure healer" thing isn't looking so hot anymore with AST around.

Imagine WHM with effects that help people after death. Reraise. Raise II maybe that raises someone at full health for higher MP. An ability that Cure weakness (honestly benediction should do this already, just a full heal is not very strong anymore).

It probably won't get them out of their undesirable light, but it'll definitely give them an identity which they completely lack atm. And it sounds better than just throwing them damage utility besides.

I like reraise in many final fantasy games, but think there might be some issues in this one that would need to be addressed. This throws a wrench into the currently defined "point of no return". The biggest difference I see here is that currently rez can only correct individual errors, while reraise could potentially correct individual and group errors

There should definitely be a "point of no return". Right now, that point has a pretty solid design being tied to squishy hp (i.e. party mechanics must be passed with enough leeway for the least tanky members to survive, or the party will likely wipe).

(Side note, this is also the likely culprit for PLD and pheonix downs not having brez)

I think reraise could be balanced, so long as there are restrictions in place such that parties must clear group mechanics in such a way that the healers/smn can survive without reraise.

Ex: rez does not occur if target died to party wide dmg

They can totally program some attacks to disable an effect like Reraise, just like some attacks go through Hallowed Ground, like enrage timers and such. As others have said, they could also simply make it so Reraise requires confirmation of the target to revive, making it so rezing after party-wide wipes would still not matter. Another option is making it so it works like a tank immunity, healing the target back to 25% ish after HP reaches 0, in which case it could work the same as Hallowed Ground and kill you anyways.

The thing is... even if this is useful, it won't really help WHM crawl out of the hole it's in right now :'). On the bright side, as Exiled said, at least it gives them more identity than having the same as the other two healers, except unnecessarily "stronger" but at the same time gimped behind horrible MP regeneration.

I see no reason for something like this not to be implemented in a casual form at some point. It's already in POTD more or less. As a Warlock player from the old WoW days I was always fond of a spell called "Soulstone" (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=20707/soulstone) which you could cast on a player for around a 15 minute duration. Upon death it would trigger a notification to accept being raised immediately. The CD for the spell was usually the same time if you had the tree setup that way. I see no reason something like that couldn't be added here. With the implementation of CDs being reset upon wipes in end game content like raids and ex trials in recent patches the long CD would be acceptable (though since most fights aren't longer than 10-15 minutes I'd lower the CD to something like 5 minutes). In lower dungeons you wouldn't (well, you SHOULDN'T) need to have this skill up every couple minutes or so.

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Originally Posted by Gemina

I think it would work, or at the very least it wouldn't break the game in any way from my view of things. However, I believe it would have to be restricted to self-cast only. It's still going to be on the healer to raise fallen comrades. I'm used to it now, but it is quite a bit of pressure in 4-man content to make sure you don't die since more likely than not, if you fall, so does the group. Heavy are the hands that hold the heals.

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Give it to DRG too, there was a tactics skill called Dragon Spirit that gave them reraise

I actually don't think Reraise would be very interesting, or particularly useful. We currently have a good set of tools to prevent/mitigate damage in a clutch, boost healing potency when needed, and even a Swiftcast ability we can strategically choose to employ when an immediate Raise is needed.

When would something like a "Reraise" be used? If it's a lazy "set it and forget it" buff that goes on the tank before every boss, then it's a boring hassle. If it's an ultra-costly, high-cooldown, low-duration safety net thrown onto the tank in a dire emergency where other options are failing -- then it will basically never see any use 99% of the time -- and by the way, we have Benediction for that. I would much rather see expanded utilities to keep people up and fighting, than sloppy "I admit defeat" spells where we just let party members die. "An ounce onze of prevention," yadda yadda yadda.

Also, the last thing we need to see is the devs designing their content under the assumption that Reraise is a given option. Please look forward to every boss having a guaranteed "one-shot the main tank" ability that can't be avoided.

On a more positive note, I could see "Reraise" being used in a different context -- not as a spell, but as a party-wide "Echo" bonus that gets applied upon multiple wipes. Maybe at a certain tier of Echo, the party gets stacking "Reraise" buffs, where the next player to reach zero HP keeps standing, goes invincible for a few seconds (can move during this time, but not much else), then is brought back into the action at half or full HP. The stacks might cap at 3, at the max level of Echo. Maybe that's a bit much, but they could choose what content to put it on. I'm assuming it would just be for older, low-level, story-required things. Or restricted to affect only players who are new to the content.

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

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The thing is, most people want something on WHM that the other healers currently don't have. Mitigation is filled by Scholar, and buffs are filled by AST.

Sure they can have slightly weaker mitigation and buffs skills, but that would seem so lazy. The idea of WHM having unique skills that makes recovering after death or making a near wipe manageable sounds pretty interesting.

Of course, the obvious problem is this will only be beneficial in progression or when you have a low gear Ilv. Soon as people can run the content without worrying too much, the job will become irrelevant again and I'd hate for WHM to be stuck in a position like that.

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Originally Posted by Fyrebrand

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You are talking as if it hadn't happened already. Some tank bursters were better to take them with Hallowed/Holmgang/Living Dead because they were too difficult to heal.

The implementation would be easy, If someone was going to die when the buff is active (the buff would last 6 seconds for example), they would drop to 1 HP and they would be healed 25% of their HP for example. Just give it 5 minute cooldown like benediction and call it day. I don't know what the debate is about. Seriously, It's only a freaking resurrection, it's not like you would be able to spam it.

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Originally Posted by ADVSS

Give it to DRG too, there was a tactics skill called Dragon Spirit that gave them reraise

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Yeah, that was a reaction ability though, meaning in order to get the reraise status they'd need to get hit. 100% for more unique utility beyond, 'But muh deeeeps!!!1!!!!!1"

It's what everyone expected Phoenix Down to be when they first get one... Sadly it doesn't do what the name suggests. If prefer it if Phoenix Down was a an auto-raise but was still unique (could only hold one), it would be a very interesting proposition.

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Originally Posted by Thunda_Cat_SMASH

Yeah, that was a reaction ability though, meaning in order to get the reraise status they'd need to get hit. 100% for more unique utility beyond, 'But muh deeeeps!!!1!!!!!1"

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yeah :) I purposely left that part out hoping no one would call me on it :) would be cool to see though, maybe as a melee dps cross skill

We had it in 1.0. It worked rather well :P

It would be fun in this game if they stopped with the massive penalty for dying. I don't even know why there is a raise spell, outside of casual content, its pointless.

There is also a version of it currently in palace of the dead, works fine there. So I have no reason to believe it couldn't work elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by Miles_Maelstrom

There is also a version of it currently in palace of the dead, works fine there. So I have no reason to believe it couldn't work elsewhere.

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There are 2 major categories of deaths:
* Individual errors (i.e. you could have prevented your own death.)
* Group errors (i.e. you died because of 1 or more people other than yourself did not handle a mechanic properly.

All deaths in PotD are individual errors. In this instance auto-raise performs the same function as raise in that it can correct individual mistakes.

There are situations where a PotD style auto-raise would break things because of its ability to circumvent group errors, which is far more powerful that correcting an individual mistake.

For example, in the ravana fight, there is a soft DPS check where the party must kill enough butterflies such that the squishies survive his ultimate. Auto-raise could essentially bypass his ultimate mechanic, which is OP IMO

I think it could work, so long as it was implemented in a way such that it only corrects individual errors

I mean, sure, it could work, but, wouldn't it technically be just another button that essentially reduces interest and complexity?

(Unless it has a fairly short buff, in which case a player, upon receiving it, could only think "oh god, being sacced, here comes the stat debuff.")


...At least we've already seen that you can't rez mid-wipe mechanic to Healer LB3 after, so that's not a deal-breaker.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I mean, sure, it could work, but, wouldn't it technically be just another button that essentially reduces interest and complexity?

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No.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

(Unless it has a fairly short buff, in which case a player, upon receiving it, could only think "oh god, being sacced, here comes the stat debuff.")

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http://www.wowhead.com/spell=31850/ardent-defender

It CAN work and be interesting if tuned correctly.