What would it take for us to get a proper macro system?

As the title says: What would it take for us to get a proper macro system?

Every time you ask about macros in this game, it's always the same: "Don't use them" "They skip lines" "They don't queue" etc.

Maybe other MMO's like WoW have spoiled me, but I for one would like a real macro system, where you can put together what you want, have it work the way you want, and have them actually be common and commonly useful.

I used to have bars full of macros in WoW. Many of my spells were on them, for one thing or another. Why doesn't SE want us to do that here?

I think the only reason people don't really use the macros is the extra delay they add. which is really annoying but i use them differently.

I have might set to follow through with commands so it changes each time the button is clicked.
Not one i use but a basic example: Spinning Edge > Gust Slash > Duality > Aeolian Edge

So that way i can have a full combo set to one key rather than having my keyboard swamped.

Because then you can automate your rotation, and then why bother playing at all if the game is gonna play for you.

"must have proper macro setups or will get kicked, no bonus"

I underdand that is for not automate your rotation.

But having only one /ac in your macro could not have any delay. That will help a lot.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

Because then you can automate your rotation, and then why bother playing at all if the game is gonna play for you.

"must have proper macro setups or will get kicked, no bonus"

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I don't automate my rotations in WoW, ffs, and their gameplay is way more proc-based than it is here, AND it has a significantly faster GCD. This game's macro system is unapologetically awful, what with the constant queuing of abilities, error messages for inane garbage, and random line skipping if you don't put them together in some anachronistic way.

Why is it okay for crafters to macro everything and afk craft, but not for DoM/DoW classes not to have to spend more time staring at their bloody UI than actually paying attention to the game?

What would it take for us to have a playerbase capable of pressing three buttons in order

Combat wise, I rather prefer the gameplay and skills to be designed as to not need or benefit from macros in the first place, than having a better macro system.

Not having a "proper macro system" limits this:

BERSERK USED!!! PLZ ESUNA IN 20s!!!!! <se.1><se.2><se.3>
BERSERK USED!!! PLZ ESUNA IN 19s!!!!! <se.1><se.2><se.3>
BERSERK USED!!! PLZ ESUNA IN 18s!!!!! <se.1><se.2><se.3>
BERSERK USED!!! PLZ ESUNA IN 17s!!!!! <se.1><se.2><se.3>
...

So, I think the current system is good enough.

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Originally Posted by Chocolys

Combat wise, I rather prefer the gameplay and skills to be designed as to not need or benefit from macros in the first place, than having a better macro system.

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I logged in just to like this comment...

Do macros add delay when it only queues one action, it's only when there are multiple skills one after the other right? I've never really fiddled with them besides making my little UI controller for gear sets and stuff.

I'm sorry to ask such a stupid question, but what was the macro system like in WoW? (I never played for more than a few months.)

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Do macros add delay when it only queues one action, it's only when there are multiple skills one after the other right? I've never really fiddled with them besides making my little UI controller for gear sets and stuff.

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Yes.

For example.
If you hit a button for say heavy shot .2 seconds before the gcd is up. It queues the ability to happen AS SOON AS the gcd is up.
If you hit a button for a heavy shot macro, regardless of if it has the offgcds built into the macro, that queing will not happen and you will lose time for each action as the human input can never hit to button exactly when the gcd is up. you will lose tenths of a second every time.

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Originally Posted by AnaviAnael

I'm sorry to ask such a stupid question, but what was the macro system like in WoW? (I never played for more than a few months.)

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Just nabbed some examples of the wikia, but the tl;dr is quite powerful:

Swap Current Dual-Spec

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/run if( GetActiveTalentGroup() == 1 ) then DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage("Spec1...");SetActiveTalentGroup(2) else DEFAULT_CHAT_FRAME:AddMessage("Spec2...");SetActiveTalentGroup(1) end
/in 6 /equipset [spec:2]Eq1;Eq2

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Tank Check Avoid/ Dist to def-cap

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/run local b,d,p,r,a=GetBlockChance(),GetDodgeChance(),GetParryChance(),GetCombatRating(CR_DEFENSE_SKILL) a=1/(.0625+.956/(r/122.9625)) ChatFrame1:AddMessage(format("Unhittable: %.2f%% Avoidance: %.2f%% Defense %+.0f rating",b+d+p+5+a,d+p+5+a,r-689))

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Print Money and Currencies to Chat Frame

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/script local cu = GetMoney(); print(GetCoinTextureString(cu,"12"))
/stopmacro [btn:1]
/script yy = GetNumWatchedTokens(); for xx = 1, yy,1 do aa, bb, cc, dd, ee = GetBackpackCurrencyInfo(xx); print(bb, aa) end

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Destroy All Grey Items (useless items/gil items)

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/run local i,n=0;for b=0,4 do for s=1,GetContainerNumSlots(b) do ClearCursor();i={GetContainerItemInfo(b,s)};n=i[7];if n and string.find(n,"9d9d9d") then PickupContainerItem(b,s); DeleteCursorItem() end end end

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And two videos cause why not; link1 , link2

imo pretty cool but obviously crazy powerful and pretty much basic level programming.

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Originally Posted by Edewen

Yes.

For example.
If you hit a button for say heavy shot .2 seconds before the gcd is up. It queues the ability to happen AS SOON AS the gcd is up.
If you hit a button for a heavy shot macro, regardless of if it has the offgcds built into the macro, that queing will not happen and you will lose time for each action as the human input can never hit to button exactly when the gcd is up. you will lose tenths of a second every time.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

Sort of. When selecting actions manually, you can actually hit the button the moment just before a skill comes off cooldown and the system will queue it up to begin immediately when available. That doesn't happen with skills triggered from a macro. With a macro, the skill will happen (or attempt to) when you press the button (so if you press it a moment early, when the skill ins't available quite yet, it will fail).

It's the waiting to press the macro button until after you see the skill come off cooldown that can create a delay (though only by the amount of time it takes you to notice that and hit the button).

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Oh okay, yeah I've always tried to queue all my stuff without developing some carpal tunnel issue (I don't pound the paint off my buttons lol) - and I guess I won't be trying any battle macros anytime soon still. As I like that I can just sort of hit it in advance actually gives me more time to think about other stuff.

I can see that slowly turning into a noticeable issue for content that needs your 100%, because you need all the accidental mistake room you can get. Not purposeful ones lol. Like I said I just use them to make the UI for jobs and stuff, hate going to the menus to change something and I don't like all the bars to be on at all times XD.

Thanks :)

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Do macros add delay when it only queues one action, it's only when there are multiple skills one after the other right? I've never really fiddled with them besides making my little UI controller for gear sets and stuff.

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Sort of. When selecting actions manually, you can actually hit the button the moment just before a skill comes off cooldown and the system will queue it up to begin immediately when available. That doesn't happen with skills triggered from a macro. With a macro, the skill will happen (or attempt to) when you press the button (so if you press it a moment early, when the skill ins't available quite yet, it will fail).

It's the waiting to press the macro button until after you see the skill come off cooldown that can create a delay (though only by the amount of time it takes you to notice that and hit the button).


EDIT: Ah, guess I was a bit too slow on this answer.

The macro system definitely sounds like it could be beneficial. :)

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Originally Posted by AnaviAnael

The macro system definitely sounds like it could be beneficial. :)

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I won't lie, I use them in my rotations and wish it was better. To people who say "what's so hard pushing 3 buttons", its petty hard when one of your hands don't work correctly. Sometimes its not a matter of "lazy playerbase".

In 1.x they worked fine, but since 2.0 they are not reliable enough to use.

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Originally Posted by Edewen

Yes.

For example.
If you hit a button for say heavy shot .2 seconds before the gcd is up. It queues the ability to happen AS SOON AS the gcd is up.
If you hit a button for a heavy shot macro, regardless of if it has the offgcds built into the macro, that queing will not happen and you will lose time for each action as the human input can never hit to button exactly when the gcd is up. you will lose tenths of a second every time.

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A better way to describe this is that it cannot use the skill queue. It's not so much an added delay, but a lack of skill queue support.

There are so many reasons I used macros in WoW. One was for easy rotations for classes that had them, the pally 69696 rotation was one of them.

The biggest reason for me though was cleaning up buttons on the bars. My warrior had a macro that read what stance i was in(battle, berserk, defensive) and also read if I had a shield equipped. This single macro then was able to hit the appropriate tank or dps cooldown based on all of these factors. Instead of having two or three buttons on my bars all of the time for me to manually click I was able to shave that down to 1 button AND make sure that I didn't accidentally hit the wrong cooldown.

Another reason I used macros was to have multi use buttons for a single spell. I'm a clicker by nature(don't hate me!), so I made left click cast a spell on my target, right click cast on my focus target, and utilizing the already built in feature pressing Alt and left click casted the spell on me regardless of targets. Again all of this was able to be done with a single hotbar space.

The WoW macro system used the Lua scripting language and was extremely flexible. It allowed people that could utilize it to focus more on their positioning and mechanics than staring at their UI or fingers. You need to have solid knowledge about your class to properly design these macros though. I think a better macro system in FFXIV could increase the skill ceiling for some players while not increasing the skill floor for all players.

Guess i do kinda feel the OP. In wow I was a total macro whore, literally macros for my macro's macros. I wanna say the reason macros here delay so much is cuz the game has to check every action with the servers and wow does most of it client side. That said I rather stick to a play style that doesn't require the need of overly complex macros though and the game atm delivers on that. I mean it was annoying to not have macros, specially for double oGCD stuff, but once i got used to it i enjoyed my interaction with the game more...after I stopped cursing having no macros :P Will say wows macros system is probably the best I have seen in a game though, some of the stuff you can set up with it is borderline addon lvls on complex lol

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Originally Posted by Xandos

The biggest reason for me though was cleaning up buttons on the bars. My warrior had a macro that read what stance i was in(battle, berserk, defensive) and also read if I had a shield equipped. This single macro then was able to hit the appropriate tank or dps cooldown based on all of these factors.

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This seems like a great example of what their macro system is trying to avoid. That macro you used may have cleaned up your hot bar but it also removed you actively thinking about it too. It automated play based on what gear you had equipped. You no longer had to think about what you were doing with those skills as the macro "thought" for you. You just pressed that one button and got the desired effect by the macro checking the current conditions.

We have a difference of opinion here as this type of play doesn't improve a players personal skill level. It removes some it since they do not have to think about what to do. It may boost a players performance though which is a different thing all together. I'm glad their macro system doesn't allow this type of play.

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Originally Posted by Feidam

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You are putting WAY too much stock in keeping buttons separate.

I use macros to change my spells on my bars when I go into Defiance and Deliverance, swapping the exclusive abilities. Does this make me worse somehow? Heck no.

I don't use macros for battle, but would love to use them to reduce the button bloat - and have more time to watch the gameplay rather than a buttload of timers and CDs. Really just removing the timing problems and adding an if statement would go a long way.

Agreed. No matter what your opinion on the macro system is, it needs to be removed or overhauled.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Not having a "proper macro system" limits this:

BERSERK USED!!! PLZ ESUNA IN 20s!!!!! <se.1><se.2><se.3>
BERSERK USED!!! PLZ ESUNA IN 19s!!!!! <se.1><se.2><se.3>
BERSERK USED!!! PLZ ESUNA IN 18s!!!!! <se.1><se.2><se.3>
BERSERK USED!!! PLZ ESUNA IN 17s!!!!! <se.1><se.2><se.3>
...

So, I think the current system is good enough.

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Funny enough I've encountered a few BRDs on pugs that have ASKED me to use a berserk macro for them to throw a WP at me even when I'm not asking for it (I'm never expecting it on pugs). Funny enough I've thought of making a macro so that every time a BRD asks for it I don't have to type the full explanation of how the lack of skill queueing messes up with my timing.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

You are putting WAY too much stock in keeping buttons separate.

I use macros to change my spells on my bars when I go into Defiance and Deliverance, swapping the exclusive abilities. Does this make me worse somehow? Heck no.

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Except the poster didn't just swap bars. He had a macro activate abilities based on which gear he had equipped. Totally different scenario than just swapping bars. My stock was put on the fact the macro activated the appropriate CD for the gear equipped.

If you swap bars and then you activate your abilities yourself I see nothing wrong with that.

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Originally Posted by Feidam

Except the poster didn't just swap bars. He had a macro activate abilities based on which gear he had equipped. Totally different scenario than just swapping bars. My stock was put on the fact the macro activated the appropriate CD for the gear equipped.

If you swap bars and then you activate your abilities yourself I see nothing wrong with that.

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But there's no difference! There's no difference between me swapping bars with a macro when I turn on Deliverance or if I could code an if/then macro to use either ability based on stance. It's the same: I press X and the correct ability goes off.

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

But there's no difference! There's no difference between me swapping bars with a macro when I turn on Deliverance or if I could code an if/then macro to use either ability based on stance. It's the same: I press X and the correct ability goes off.

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There's a difference in how involved you can make the logic. You can do it for one thing (possibly two if you want to get really involved) by swapping bars around. You can basically do it for everything by having what amounts to a programming language in the macro system.

Have people who are complaining about macros automating the game even done a primal? How often are you able to 100% do your optimal rotation throughout the entire fight?

Also I see zero reason for not having mouse over heals supported.

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Originally Posted by basketofseals

Have people who are complaining about macros automating the game even done a primal? How often are you able to 100% do your optimal rotation throughout the entire fight?

Also I see zero reason for not having mouse over heals supported.

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They don't want players pressing one button to play the fight out for them.

Mouseover is supported.

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Originally Posted by basketofseals

Also I see zero reason for not having mouse over heals supported.

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Those are supported.

/ac "Cure" <mo>

It's among the more common uses of macros in the game. Lots of healers have a macro to heal their mouse-over, their target, or their target's target, whichever is applicable.

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Originally Posted by Niwashi

Those are supported.

/ac "Cure" <mo>

It's among the more common uses of macros in the game. Lots of healers have a macro to heal their mouse-over, their target, or their target's target, whichever is applicable.

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If by "supported" you mean "crippled like everything else because they don't queue".

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Originally Posted by dragonseth07

If by "supported" you mean "crippled like everything else because they don't queue".

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That is what we mean, yes.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

They don't want players pressing one button to play the fight out for them.

Mouseover is supported.

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There's the usual macro problems with mouseover, unless there's some option I've missed?

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Originally Posted by basketofseals

There's the usual macro problems with mouseover, unless there's some option I've missed?

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There's the usual timing issue of not queuing, but you initially referred to mouseover as not being supported. That's not its issue. It is supported. It just can't be queued in advance.