Please stop with achievements that rely on others skills

Having achievements that makes me rely on others is making me hate everyone lately. I enjoy pvp in this game, however please stop putting rewards locked behind conditions we (almost) do not have any control upon.

Frontline feels like a lucky roulette. You either get people that will respect the rules, listen to people that try to lead, and maybe you'll win, or you can get people that will do the exact opposite despite all your effort to try and lead or point mistakes.

And you get punished for that. There's nothing you can do about it.

What's worse, ending 2nd doesn't get you anything. Sure you get some extra marks, but what's the point with the recent buff? If you're aiming for mounts you'll end up with more marks than you can spend anyway. Once you know you won't end up 1st, there's no reason to try anymore. You've just lost time.

Anyway, I have about 1010 games played, 550 wins, got the 3 garo mounts, etc. So I'm not whining about having to put efforts into things, I'm just tired of having to rely on people that do not care/won't listen to grind things. So please try to think of different kind of achievements in the future. You'd think that "winning" would be enough to have people actually try, but it's not.

Put achievment on Kill participation

Timed horses (or timed anything) should have NEVER been put behind PvP.

Achievements have no purpose in this game, unless they are ones that contain a reward. PVP has been fully revitalised & renewed by the Garo event to the extent that it shows the developers & media that there is a player base who will PVP for incentives. As a result there's likely to be more time & money spent on future PVP within FFXIV. A regular PVPer should be glad that it has been a success, rather than bitter it is no longer their special play group.

If PvPers are bitter, it's hardly about the Garo event.

The only things we're likely bitter about is the Feast chat removal and the fiasco it's caused, and uncooperative new players. Nothing's wrong with being new, but when you're "just here for Garo" and don't want to learn anything besides the bare minimum that will get you your wolf marks/tomes for what you want, or don't listen and cooperate, that bothers people rather quickly. It causes losses, and that only sets everyone back from those achievements.

Speaking of, the Garo event is set to continue into the release of Stormblood, so that's plenty of time to work at it. It doesn't have to happen right away, and the bar is set rather reasonably for the achievements. Don't stress it too much, and instead play as best as you can, and offer help and advice to those you see who might need it.

There are tons of achievements in this game that rely on others' skill in cooperation with your own. It's an MMO.

If this is a complaint about the Garo event bringing in new players who are unskilled or maybe even unwilling to do pvp, maybe consider the bright side? Pvp queues are nearly instant. It's also forcing players to play quite a bit in order to get their mounts, and some of us who only did pve before are getting a taste for it.

All the OP is saying is that we shouldn't be forced to have to do things for an achievement that relies on how well others play. It'd be one thing if you could go into frontlines and as long as you yourself scored a certain point ratio you got the reward..but as is, no matter how good you are if your team is bad there's nothing you can do. Plus you can just get unlucky and lose match after match after match. And as another said, waste time.

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Originally Posted by RoseOfTheRaven

All the OP is saying is that we shouldn't be forced to have to do things for an achievement that relies on how well others play. It'd be one thing if you could go into frontlines and as long as you yourself scored a certain point ratio you got the reward..but as is, no matter how good you are if your team is bad there's nothing you can do. Plus you can just get unlucky and lose match after match after match. And as another said, waste time.

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But how is this different from raids and trials. You can't control other peoples skill. A thread always pops up of hours wasted with groups and nothing to show for it.

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Originally Posted by Fonkyama

Anyway, I have about 1010 games played, 550 wins

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I congratulate you on having an over 50% win rate!
If only others could be so lucky and have other people be as skillful as your comrades were.

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Originally Posted by Moonlite

But how is this different from raids and trials. You can't control other peoples skill. A thread always pops up of hours wasted with groups and nothing to show for it.

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Memorizing scripted encounters has hardly anything to do with 'skill'. Zero brain required, fits the targeted WoW demographic perfectly.

Go play a single player game?

The easiest to get one of garo ponies is the 30 win of feast than 10 win frontline. I did my feast for 2 days as mostly AST and I can make it through 30 win, while frontline is sucks with premade everywhere.

This is an MMORPG. Almost everything you do is reliant on other players.

I find little issues with frontlines, if people seem clueless direct them, watch the map. A god example I can give you was this one match maelstrom had the win pretty much, all they had to do was be defensive to win and hold a single point I think it was, because they kept us off from trying to take a shinny that we badly needed to have a chance. Since we lost this encounter, they moved up to the data collectable, that they did not need, outside our base. Because they kept FEEDing us, we beat them just because we kept killing them, not off the data objective. They overextended and try get something they did not even need, and payed with the sure thing win. I could not believe it, in all the matches I seen, i never seen such a drastic lead thrown away. It was so shocking I was like oh it is over they finally wo...... *shows our flame banner* ..WHATTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!??????? A lot of people commented on it too including me how they thew that win away. If they had someone say "pull back just defend" they would of won.

Also for the main point of this thread, no? There is plenty of bias achievements like kill counts. healers can't get them, we do hardly any damage. I rather see achievements fixed for healers more then this topic's suggestion. This is an online game, there is tons of achievements that can't be soloed

because raids are generally not for achievement required items..that are time limited. thats how.

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Originally Posted by RoseOfTheRaven

because raids are generally not for achievement required items..that are time limited. thats how.

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I did both in a day, and you have months, I do not see the issue, we do not even know when it will be discontinued.

I too find it statistically unlikely that anyone will be unable to get this achievement before the time period is up, unless they haven't been keeping up with news on the game and thus get started insanely late. I feel like people who want the event made easier are people who don't like PVP, want to get their shinies faster and thus GTFO faster.

It's one thing to want the event made permanent, so that everyone has the chance to get the mounts and the gear. (Queue times will eventually become a roadblock though, kind of like how people pretty much can't get the black ADS mount anymore.) It's quite another to want it be made systemically EASIER, just because people are only interested in the rewards. For what it's worth, I do think most people are trying...I just see very little direction going on in matches, and with so many PVEers coming into the fold all it takes is one idiot chasing the enemy GC or trying to attack a base or something for everyone to flock and do it, simply because they figure the person in front has to know WTF they're doing. Try to lead - though I know it's nigh impossible with how they gutted Feast - and eventually if enough people keep giving the same directions ("don't chase!" "fall back to mid to wait for ice!" "casters, get ready to CC and drop LBs when big ice spawns!") then people WILL learn how the game mode is generally supposed to operate.

I'm fundamentally not interested in any method that makes it easier for these PVP-exclusive rewards to be made non-exclusive, sorry. Assuming a 6-month period for this event, you'd only have to win ONE match every 2-3 days to get all the rewards, in the end. That's barely any effort at all, and everyone who actually cares to do it WILL do it.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

I did both in a day, and you have months, I do not see the issue, we do not even know when it will be discontinued.

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You're missing my point. But whatever.

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Originally Posted by RoseOfTheRaven

You're missing my point. But whatever.

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nope, I do get the point, I am disagreeing with it, clearly you do not get mine. Let me break it up for you.

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Originally Posted by Fonkyama

Having achievements that makes me rely on others is making me hate everyone lately. I enjoy pvp in this game, however please stop putting rewards locked behind conditions we (almost) do not have any control upon.

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There is plenty of stuff in this game that is just the case, weather be unattainable 1.0 titles and achievements to any raid, some past DFs might be hard to do now because people do not do it a lot, like a1- a7 , i had trouble finding people and I have little control in getting those done. There is lots of things that is locked behind the cooperation with others, time limited or not, so that is a weak argument to point something is a problem unless you want to address them all, then you are just being selective because something is not easy enough for you to do. Achievements or mounts are not game breaking or disrupt game balance. They are rewards for people that can get it done. Why not complain that you can't get the seasoned gear that is exclusive and time limited?

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Originally Posted by Fonkyama

Frontline feels like a lucky roulette. You either get people that will respect the rules, listen to people that try to lead, and maybe you'll win, or you can get people that will do the exact opposite despite all your effort to try and lead or point mistakes.

And you get punished for that. There's nothing you can do about it.

What's worse, ending 2nd doesn't get you anything. Sure you get some extra marks, but what's the point with the recent buff? If you're aiming for mounts you'll end up with more marks than you can spend anyway. Once you know you won't end up 1st, there's no reason to try anymore. You've just lost time.

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My reply:

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

I find little issues with frontlines, if people seem clueless direct them, watch the map. A god example I can give you was this one match maelstrom had the win pretty much, all they had to do was be defensive to win and hold a single point I think it was, because they kept us off from trying to take a shinny that we badly needed to have a chance. Since we lost this encounter, they moved up to the data collectable, that they did not need, outside our base. Because they kept FEEDing us, we beat them just because we kept killing them, not off the data objective. They overextended and try get something they did not even need, and payed with the sure thing win. I could not believe it, in all the matches I seen, i never seen such a drastic lead thrown away. It was so shocking I was like oh it is over they finally wo...... *shows our flame banner* ..WHATTTTTTTTTTTTTTT!??????? A lot of people commented on it too including me how they thew that win away. If they had someone say "pull back just defend" they would of won.

Also for the main point of this thread, no? There is plenty of bias achievements like kill counts. healers can't get them, we do hardly any damage. I rather see achievements fixed for healers more then this topic's suggestion. This is an online game, there is tons of achievements that can't be soloed

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Originally Posted by Fonkyama

Anyway, I have about 1010 games played, 550 wins, got the 3 garo mounts, etc. So I'm not whining about having to put efforts into things, I'm just tired of having to rely on people that do not care/won't listen to grind things. So please try to think of different kind of achievements in the future. You'd think that "winning" would be enough to have people actually try, but it's not.

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What are we supposed to do? make a game that just gives you everything and put no work in it? that is boring, the achievements and mounts are there to reflect that you achived X, it gives you something to do. This is an online game of course you need to rely on others, thinking otherwise is quite foolish.

And finally:

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

I did both in a day, and you have months, I do not see the issue, we do not even know when it will be discontinued.

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Should of said "when and if", but I hope you get my point now

The Garo mounts are too easy to obtained tbh. I've got them yesterday, someone on my world got it day one.

I don't like that. It'll make these mounts not too rare, and less unique.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

The Garo mounts are too easy to obtained tbh. I've got them yesterday, someone on my world got it day one.

I don't like that. It'll make these mounts not too rare, and less unique.

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Yeah, because there obviously aren't enough rare, unique PvP mounts already that are partially unavailable anymore :rolleyes:

Achievment for winning 1.000.000 MGP at Jumbo cacpot ç.ç

In 24 man FL you have more weight on the result, also now you can even team up with people and have all way more chance to win.
I think it's nice how the PvP Achievment are right now, because achievment if you will get it just for partecipation (and there's an achievment for it) they will be ended up fastly and this means:
less people in queue ---> PvP queue will die again faster,
and people that just enter and do not actually try to win (even totally failing).

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Originally Posted by Fonkyama

Frontline feels like a lucky roulette. You either get people that will respect the rules, listen to people that try to lead, and maybe you'll win, or you can get people that will do the exact opposite despite all your effort to try and lead or point mistakes.

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Most of the people making calls and trying to lead started pvp'ing a week ago and have absolutely no clue what they're talking about.

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Originally Posted by Fonkyama

I have about 1010 games played, 550 wins

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https://i.gyazo.com/09472d38628f1a26...c521f90953.png

Not as impressive, but hey at least its a little better than 33% Always queued solo. Anyways I dont think you're ever going to deviate that much from 1:3 solo, especially with 72 man and freelancing being a thing now. Its rng and you might have good or bad luck, especially with a sample size as small as is needed for the mount, but when is rng not a thing? xP

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Originally Posted by Atoli

Yeah, because there obviously aren't enough rare, unique PvP mounts already that are partially unavailable anymore :rolleyes:

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Theres not a single one thats even remotely unavailable (I suppose you could make an argument for the hellhound since its probably too late to get into the top 100 on any datacenter). Being a long term goal, as they were intended to be and always have been, and involving content that I'm guessing doesn't appeal to you isn't the same thing as unavailable.

Ok, I think a lot of people are missing my point. I am not asking for achievements to be made easier. I got the 3 new pvp mounts in 3 days which I would hardly call a grind (thanks to the feast). So I'm not afraid of missing anything, nor would I want an easier way to do it.

I'm asking for a less frustrating way to get those.

I absolutely do not care if everyone can get them. I'm currently helping FC members to get theirs. So please don't put me in the "I wanna feel special" group.

I just want pvp to be fun. And when you put achievements behind conditions that require you to get people that will care, the fun goes away quickly.

All I'm asking is that dev think of a different way of doing it. Participation kills would not work either. No one would defend, no one would heal, no one would focus pve objectives. Participation only would not work either, we have enough people afking as it is. I'm not sure what would be the best solution, but I'm requesting something less reliant on others.

Also being 2nd should matter. Being 2nd could count as 1/2 of a win. If making it 2nd twice would equal one win achievement wise, at least a game wouldn't be over as soon as one team got a too big lead.

True this is a mmo. But if you're really comparing pve achievements with pvp ones, you're either very lucky with your pvp groups, or you're unlucky as hell with your pve groups and you should get a static.

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

(...)A god example I can give you was this one match maelstrom had the win pretty much, all they had to do was be defensive to win and hold a single point I think it was, because they kept us off from trying to take a shinny that we badly needed to have a chance. (...)If they had someone say "pull back just defend" they would of won.

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You'd be surprised how many times I've been that person, or have seen someone tried to do it and it failed cause people do not read/care.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

I congratulate you on having an over 50% win rate!
If only others could be so lucky and have other people be as skillful as your comrades were.

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That's a memory from when FL was released and Maelstrom had a 80% winrate. My winrate is now 35%, which is fine with a 3 team mode.

So i am a bit confused, are you against the season stuff too?

There should be some stuff to get by casuals (I call this stuff that)
Stuff for the average skilled (does not exist)
then stuff for the hard core, like the top 100 stuff we got now

I know what you where asking, maybe my postings did not make that clear, I was disagreeing with it though.

If it is made less annoying or however you want to word it, why have anything at all and just give stuff to people like a hand out? I disagree with such an idea.

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Originally Posted by Fonkyama

You'd be surprised how many times I've been that person, or have seen someone tried to do it and it failed cause people do not read/care.

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i think the cause of that is simply being board. Some people do not think and just act. "Oh I wanna try anyway since there is no way we can lose, lets farm a bit?" I mean I can usually see close games swing easily. This was a LANDSLIDE difference. We where down like 200 ish points in the data thing, mael being in the 700's and us in the 500's or so, from holding those double shinny and a 3rd normal near their base. I really thought mael won when it was over, i was just having fun trying keep people alive. I was STUNNED as hell seeing my teams flag as the winner. We only had like 1 or 2 normal data points near our base, the large change was simply from kills alone and them feeding us, we won of being fed just outside our base (the data points that are just outside your base, that is where they where feeding us)

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Originally Posted by Ama_Hamada

So i am a bit confused, are you against the season stuff too?

There should be some stuff to get by casuals (I call this stuff that)
Stuff for the average skilled (does not exist)
then stuff for the hard core, like the top 100 stuff we got now

I know what you where asking, maybe my postings did not make that clear, I was disagreeing with it though.

If it is made less annoying or however you want to word it, why have anything at all and just give stuff to people like a hand out? I disagree with such an idea.

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Of course not. I'm all for having to put some effort into things. They wouldn't feel special otherwise.

However there is nothing hard about the current event rewards. Marks are easy to get and you don't need a big commitment to get the mounts either (only the 10 FL wins may take some time). And that's perfectly fine. Would it be harder, lots of people wouldn't even try pvp.

Again, I'm not asking for any easier way to get achievements. I'm just tired that you may well end up losing 2-3h without any progress towards an achievement despite your efforts.

All I'm saying is that a win condition in the current state is more frustration than anything else as you do not have power on it. In 24 you'll have a lot more control on this, but in 72 it quickly becomes a big mess. And that's what I dislike.

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Originally Posted by Fonkyama

Of course not. I'm all for having to put some effort into things. They wouldn't feel special otherwise.

However there is nothing hard about the current event rewards. Marks are easy to get and you don't need a big commitment to get the mounts either (only the 10 FL wins may take some time). And that's perfectly fine. Would it be harder, lots of people wouldn't even try pvp.

Again, I'm not asking for any easier way to get achievements. I'm just tired that you may well end up losing 2-3h without any progress towards an achievement despite your efforts.

All I'm saying is that a win condition in the current state is more frustration than anything else as you do not have power on it. In 24 you'll have a lot more control on this, but in 72 it quickly becomes a big mess. And that's what I dislike.

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look at the result, it is working right? I LOVE FRONTLINE, im ok with 8 v8 and i hate 4 v 4, i feel 4 v 4 is imbalanced just due to how bursting works.

Before event it was 1-3 hour wait for a 8 v 8 v8 ( if you are lucky) i had an 8 v8 v 6 , i was one of the 8's as healer with my friend being a dps on the 6 side, she got a 7th, after like 7 mins i think, was pure dps team. Well they where losing as expected but sometime late in the match, i guess the other teams where too much single file to the ice with all 7 of them there and they just kept killing people off and won from winning that 300 point ice. I did not think a pure dps team could win anything, let alone short handed on top of that.

So this time it is taking, is getting people to play, I hope they have ideas in the future that allows this

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Originally Posted by Fonkyama

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I think it was a smart move to have WINNING matches be required to get the mounts. The event is designed so that in order to get rewards, you actually need to participate and help your teams to victory, standing idle and getting carried gets you nowhere as there is no prize for losing (unlike tome farm). Your issue is with the increased population, and the larger influx on the lower end - to which I say suck it up, that is the nature of the DF, and that is why feast has a separate solo and party queue. Having more players means faster queues, and while you might get worse players, it is nothing but good for the pvp community (especially here on primal where pvp used to be unplayable due to queues).

Apparently they should give A12S achievements and mount just for participation and not clears too. I mean, why should I rely on 7 other people, it's making me hate them if they fail.

Cheevo points for second place and not third would just virtually guarantee a buttjam on the second place team near the end of the match, from the third place team in a scramble to not have their 15 minutes go to waste, and possibly the first place team just for lulz and easy kills. So then you'd have to give participation trophies to third place too, which would just lead to what we've seen with previous lucrative FL rewards - rampant afking and match-throwing.

The fact that you don't even have a solution to your own problem OP means that the devs have already probably thought out the best solution they're able at this juncture. TEN Frontlines wins. Win two a WEEK and you have your pony; you can always spam Feast for the other 50 wins, as you have more control over the outcome and it's faster anyway.

Only thing they need to stop is putting map/mode based achivments as those sucks and they also kill older modes, all i want is to do modes i like and ignore ones i dislike(Seal Rock > Shatter).

Seriously it don't make sense. We should get mount by winning otherwise nobody have to put effort. And we come with no need to win, and its just merely a farm.
And some players just don't understand how to win. I heard players say don't try kill/ do only the objectives and vice versa, don't kill crystals because it's boring but no... in shatter we need kills and objectives, we need both of them. Nobody have to rush to enemy, but kill and survive... know when to retreat is the key to win point and not loose them.
And accept also the fact we can't win every games.
I think also we should not get achievement based on new mode, and make mode rotation possible, so you can play any mode we like.

While your right you can either try to help the situation by taking the lead or go with the flow. Some of us can become leaders and usually people with Mentor statues tend to be taken a bit more serious. I've had situation were ai had to give tips during frontier. From dead last to first once people listened. It's all about h ow you present it. Occasionally yes there are trolls but hey its a mmo.

Such is life in a multiplayer game. Even Slaughterhouse is hurt or helped by having a healer who can do more than spam Diurnal Aspected Benefic on the one single battle high next to them slowly dying to non-burst damage.

Yeah, I'm salty. I'd do it myself, but I'll never get the title playing only WHM and AST. My dot/Aero steals aren't enough.

Otherwise, I love PVP achievements.

Ummm pretty sure almost all achievements rely on others skills , unless you think you can do every duty in the game solo ?

All the new garo mounts can be obtained in a full party , so if you're gonna queue by yourself don't complain if you don't like the team you get.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

Yeah, because there obviously aren't enough rare, unique PvP mounts already that are partially unavailable anymore :rolleyes:

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Exactly zero. Learn the facts before trying to make fun of something..

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Originally Posted by Atoli

Yeah, because there obviously aren't enough rare, unique PvP mounts already that are partially unavailable anymore :rolleyes:

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You do not understand what Atoli was saying

I just realized that the Garo mounts aren't that great. They have a good model but they lack glowing effect so they look inferior to the primal bird mounts. I'll probably go back to ride my flying ball since it's the rarest mount according to the consensus.

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Originally Posted by Evangela

I just realized that the Garo mounts aren't that great. They have a good model but they lack glowing effect so they look inferior to the primal bird mounts. I'll probably go back to ride my flying ball since it's the rarest mount according to the consensus.

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It's just copycat of odin horse with kirin's sound tho, so ADS still a winner to me too