Why the difference in duration?

http://i.imgur.com/5CZlnYE.png

Why??

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Originally Posted by Edewen

Freecure
Play better. If you are having mp issues it is your fault. Stop fishing for a way to blame the other guy. This is not politics.

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I just want to know WHY. Simple question. Stop fishing for a way to pick a fight. Gitgud in understanding.
And no, I don't have mana issues unless people are dropping like flies to things they shouldn't.

My guess would be that CNJ/WHM gets a flat 50% reduction while AST is a reduced generation.

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Originally Posted by MaethusXion

My guess would be that CNJ/WHM gets a flat 50% reduction while AST is a reduced generation.

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I think Raquelle is wondering about the refresh duration, not about the enmity part.

Raquelle, I have only unlocked astrologian and never played that job at all, but could it be that astrologian has a higher MP consumption compared to Whitemage? If so it would explain the longer Refresh time.

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Originally Posted by Tam_Hawkins

I think Raquelle is wondering about the refresh duration, not about the enmity part.

Raquelle, I have only unlocked astrologian and never played that job at all, but could it be that astrologian has a higher MP consumption compared to Whitemage? If so it would explain the longer Refresh time.

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I play both jobs a lot. IMO, WHM consumes more MP than AST.

Doesn't WHM also get a boost in refresh potency in a trait?

The best logical explanation I've seen is that AST gets near faceroll mp management [longer, extendable refresh, Ewers, and lower base spell costs] is because cards are what they manage. Mp management is very limiting on white mage to create an artificial skill ceiling.

SE just threw everything but the kitchen sink at AST to try to push it into viability. It's...really not a very well designed job, so they only way to make it relevant was to overtune it.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Doesn't WHM also get a boost in refresh potency in a trait?

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Shroud of Saints base potency is 60, trait boosts it to 80.

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

Doesn't WHM also get a boost in refresh potency in a trait?

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80 is with the trait. Without, it would be 60.

They adjusted the potency of the healing spells up for AST (they are quite similar right now if you look at equivalent spells) but didn't touch the mp cost. Probably same reason here. Made sense before because the spells were lower potency but the mp cost is still from the old balancing. They just never changed it so AST spells are cheaper to cast than WHM equivalents.

Who knows why. Probably to get people to play AST. Same with the Balance card buff.

I mean, WHM also has Assize for MP while AST needs to rely on rng for the mana card, and most of that time the mana card is going to be burned to provide aoe bole or arrow to the party. The only reason for a WHM to be completely out of MP and/or having MP issues is if they have to constantly keep raising party members (which is not your fault as a WHM to begin with, and also applies to AST) or if they are heavily dpsing, which they can do far better than an AST anyways. Feels balanced to me.

But AST that can put their MP back to 100% after dying (for example) by LA + Ewer + CO, while WHM can't fully regenerate MP with SoS + Assize.

Azzize: 1387 Mp (at 723 Piety), 90s cd
Shroud: 3535 Mp, 120s cd

In one minute: 2692 Mp (scales with Piety).

L. Aether: 5656 Mp, 120s cd
Ewer: 2210 Mp, 180s "cd"

In one minute: 3565 Mp

In addition to the above the AST can use CO every 2 minutes to extend their refreshes: 1326 Mp more from Ewer and and 2121 Mp from L. Aether. That's assuming they don't give the Ewer to the WMH. ;) If they do, the AST can add an additional 2210 Mp by extending the Ewer on the WHM with Time Dilation. In total they can support another healer with 5746 Mp every 2 minutes assuming their cooldowns line up with Ewers.

Maybe its because the white mage can proc free spell ? it would makes sens that he regen less mana since he regulary have free spell.

There isn't a logic reason IMHO, they buffed the AST over and over to push away the idea that it's a bad job and increase its numbers. They'll rebalance everything out in 4.0

Freecure
Play better. If you are having mp issues it is your fault. Stop fishing for a way to blame the other guy. This is not politics.

WHMs have Assize on a separate cooldown

ASTs only other option is the ewer, which is RNG, and better saved for the royal road. You don't see an ast using the Ewer on themselves ever unless they're that starved

Using Luminiferous Aether also usually required you to use Celestial Opposition to get as much out of it as possible, but that is no longer needed, and you can use it for other things.

Are we forgetting freecure here? 15% chance doesn't sound like much at first, but considering how often you cast cure, it triggers all the time during actual gameplay.
AST procs only crit, that's all. They still cost the same amount of MP (~800 MP for me). While my WHM saves 900 MP when using Cure II with a proc.
There's Assize too, and no, Ewer is no replacement because basically an AST that needs cards for himself sucks, he's supposed to either RR it or turn it in for another card if no one else in the party needs it.

Is that so aberrant that different jobs have different play style with both strengths and weaknesses ?

Malefic II VS Stone III ? +10 potency for stone.
20% chance free dispell , 15% free Cure II , 20% that Medica cost half MP.
5y more range for Medica II than Aspected Helios
and so on.

And I don't even talk about 4 free heals (Benediction, Asylum, azzize(+MP and dmg), Tetragrammaton) Vs 2 ( Essential Dignity, and Collective Unconscious but you can't move )

3 Healers in the game,
all 3 are powerfull and unique.
WHM got most powerfull heals (single and group), and more healing skills and burst DPS
SCH got shields, fairy with micro management, mobility tanks to Dots and great MP effiency.
AST can be replacement for both, but slightly weaker for specialty, and cards.

don't forget that Lightspeed reduces mp consumption by 25% ^^/

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Originally Posted by Tint

don't forget that Lightspeed reduces mp consumption by 25% ^^/

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and reduce atk spell dmg by 25%

It also reduce cast time, which increase the mp consumption again (more spells get casted)

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Originally Posted by basketofseals

SE just threw everything but the kitchen sink at AST to try to push it into viability. It's...really not a very well designed job, so they only way to make it relevant was to overtune it.

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This is more or less the answer, yes. Since AST has no real niche in terms of its healing ability, and instead is just a poor hybrid of both other healers, the only way SE could make it viable was to make it OP. Why on earth they ever thought it was a good idea to combine two existing healing roles to make a new one is beyond me.

Because getting rid of half your Enmity on every enemy is stronger than doing less enmity for a while... I guess...

Probably because they have no idea how to balance healers, reason why hopefully we don't get another healer in 4.0.

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Originally Posted by Lone-wolfe-02

Probably because they have no idea how to balance healers, reason why hopefully we don't get another healer in 4.0.

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The problem is they made the balancing job far harder than it needed to be.

True balance is almost impossible to achieve without homogenisation rendering all the options meaningless. The best solution is to ensure that no two classes in a game ever work the same way. If they added a third healer that used a different mechanic (spending HP or TP to heal instead of MP, a lifetap healer, a debuffing healer, etc.) then balance would be much more easily achieved because it would be much harder to directly compare the jobs. Instead they added AST, which does exactly what both WHM and SCH already did, and thus it is extremely easy to directly compare the numbers and see which is objectively superior.

As long as AST uses MP to heal or create shields they will always be either over-powered compared to the other healers, or under-powered.

Because WHM has more consistent options to restore MP. You get to have abilities like Assize on top of that, as well as a free cure 2 spell 15% of the time. The AST is a crit instead, still paying full out, and outside of Lumin Aether, requires me to not only rely on a 1/6 chance on a card, but demands me to use it on myself selfishly instead of spreading something like Balance later on the line.

And as to the comment about the jobs being similar, or having to "make it op to be played," it wasn't needed. People had trouble trusting it thanks to how release was, while people who played it from release not caring about it being weak (Such as myself,) tend to be more confused. And to be honest, I much prefer playing an AST over a WHM, even before buffs. I found WHM boring to play, where with AST I had a whole card system to toy with and change the flow of battle.

But I guess as the partner healer in 8/24 mans, for the love of god stop spamming cure II/III and never using regular cure. I'm not sparing Ewers for that.

I think the best answer to everyones questions is, Play Scholar, XD.

Because AST master race. also to be honest i never really noticed the enmity reduction in these abilities. Like i forgot that was even part of it until the OP's post.

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Originally Posted by Edewen

Freecure
Play better. If you are having mp issues it is your fault. Stop fishing for a way to blame the other guy. This is not politics.

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I just want to know WHY. Simple question. Stop fishing for a way to pick a fight. Gitgud in understanding.
And no, I don't have mana issues unless people are dropping like flies to things they shouldn't.

IMO, it's just based on the fact that WHM has 2 ways of getting back MP while AST only has 1.
So SE being SE decided they have to buff AST's LA to balance things out.