Sprint can not use TP

Good day

Dear SE, I think it is not right, that sprint uses all the TP. Magic classes can freely use it anytime and it really helps in many battles, but all physic classes cant use the sprint wherever they want, because they will not be able to attack

Please, rework the sprint mechanic

Thank you

Your just being silly now.

Sorry, but this is kinda weird. You could also say: "Casters have to stop moving to attack. Melees don't. Please fix that." ._.

I think it's absolutely fair, since Melees (including Tanks) can attack while moving around, that the casters can freely stay on spot a sec longer, than use Sprint and run to a safespot. :o

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Originally Posted by AmeliaVerves

I think it's absolutely fair[...]

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Well, PvP already proved it to be unfair. It's also unfair in PvE, people just usually don't care that much there, especially since you move less in general, so the dis/advantage isn't as pronounced as in PvP.

How about a Sprint meter and a Sprint button? Maybe make it the left shift key or something.

This is not silly at all, and let's not forget Bards and Machinist have to stay in place casting too, and yet they can't freely empty their TP for sprint.

Sprint should be available equally for everyone, or not available in raids at all.

Bards and Mechs can turn off the Wanderer's Minuet/Gauss Barrel while they wish to move around quickly and still be able to perform many of their attacks, while the magic classes can't mostly do anything while moving (including sprinting)
and they both can have access to Invigorate to replenish half ot their TP every 2 minutes.

There's a reason we get Weapon Throw in PvP: Sprint actually is unfair. :P

It does make sense when you also consider that sprint will tend to be a magic job's only movement ability (BLM has manip but they need a good target for it to be at all useful... use with mouseover for a good time!). Most melee jobs have some method of engaging/disengaging quickly and/or repeatedly. Tanks get kind of hosed there but they don't tend to have to run around nearly as much in any event. BRD and MCH can turn off their bow/gun mage stance and run around all they want until they're in position and can turn it back on again.

Now what I'd like to see is getting disconnected NOT draining your entire TP pool. That's some bs right there.

Saying "PvP proves Sprint is unfair" makes no sense, because the specific situations that require sprint in PvP do not exist in PvE.
You need sprint in PvP to either catch up or run away from a target that is also using sprint (which is possible ONLY because your opponents are real players too).
Opponents in PvE do not have sprint, therefore anything and everything can be reached/outrun/evaded without sprint.

If you are calling for an ability that makes it easier for you to evade AoEs as a melee, I'm going to call for equal HP pool and def on mage as melees have + the removal of the need to stand still during casting,
otherwise that would not be fair and balanced either, that melees can get hit more and can keep attacking WHILE evading AoEs while I have to cancel everything just to move.
Some things are just differences in role design, not actual imbalances. I vastly prefer these differences over everyone being exactly the same, just the weapon animations being different >.>

I don't understand the PvP argument since Sprint doesn't cost TP there anyways, unless that was somehow the point and I was misreading it ;

I use sprint regularly as a warrior. This is what Equilibrium is for.
Every TP using class save for Paladin has something to restore TP.

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Originally Posted by Xyno

Good day

Dear SE, I think it is not right, that sprint uses all the TP. Magic classes can freely use it anytime and it really helps in many battles, but all physic classes cant use the sprint wherever they want, because they will not be able to attack

Please, rework the sprint mechanic

Thank you

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than please remove all the jump and movement skills from melees and tanks as well pls.... - u can't be serious... ^^'

Maybe I'm biased because I play PLD, where our idea of mobility is standing still even harder with Tempered Won't.

I think it makes sense to keep it the same. Really? My husband who is a DRG would be sprinting and jumping into more aoe's. That's just ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Knahli

I don't understand the PvP argument since Sprint doesn't cost TP there anyways, unless that was somehow the point and I was misreading it ;

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That's the entire point of the argument. Sprint used to cost TP in PvP, but then they removed the cost because it was unfair towards jobs that used TP.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

I use sprint regularly as a warrior. This is what Equilibrium is for.
Every TP using class save for Paladin has something to restore TP.

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Warriors have the highest possible TP restore out of all the TP jobs that have a TP restore CD. And unless a fight as a lot of breaks, I'll likely need to use that TP restore to keep on dpsing.

I don't really see the issue of removing the TP cost from sprint.

Agreed.

Casters can use it freely but Tanks and Melee can't and that shit sucks for some fights, like grabbing towers when you get shoved all the way to the back in Sephirot. I could sprint if I was a caster, but not as a Tank... Who, you know.... Actually needs to get those towers.

I see no reason for it to cost TP--especially not all of my TP in one go. It has a 30 second cooldown anyway. Why does it cost all of it?

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

That's the entire point of the argument. Sprint used to cost TP in PvP, but then they removed the cost because it was unfair towards jobs that used TP.

Warriors have the highest possible TP restore out of all the TP jobs that have a TP restore CD.

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Dude idk what WAR you're playing but we only restore 200 with Equilibrium. Invigorate for DRG is 500.

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

How about a Sprint meter and a Sprint button? Maybe make it the left shift key or something.

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The only issue I'd have with that is that it'd quickly point out how many wasted opportunities we have for skill/ability alteration (via 'from stealth' or 'from sprint', etc.). Or maybe that'd be a good reasons to make the change? Hmm.

I'd personally like for it to still cost TP, but to offer more control over the amount of TP consumed. For instance, make it drain over time that gradually becomes more efficient until a given minimum drain rate. At that point, non-casters can actually use the damn thing, but it's still best used in long stretches. Further, you could give it two modes, a channel and a toggle. Press and hold to seriously dash out of there while held, though incapable of most other actions while channeling, and release to let it fall to just the normal sprint. Hit again to kill the effect / toggle it off.

That's just my personal preference that mobility should actually cost something—worthwhile in some situations and not in others, rather than being a free resource that should be maximized. Even that, though, would warrant making casters have some actual, regular use of TP... in some, distant, TP-revised future...

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Originally Posted by Xyno

Good day

Dear SE, I think it is not right, that sprint uses all the TP. Magic classes can freely use it anytime and it really helps in many battles, but all physic classes cant use the sprint wherever they want, because they will not be able to attack

Please, rework the sprint mechanic

Thank you

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Every mele class has a gap closer and moving out of an AoE is not hard to do. If you know the fight, you'll know when you need to use a gap closer and save it.

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Originally Posted by Pyrali

Dude idk what WAR you're playing but we only restore 200 with Equilibrium. Invigorate for DRG is 500.

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Dude idk what WAR you're playing, but I've never seen them have TP issues in fights where I (as a DRG) would otherwise end up TP starved.

There's more to TP restore than just looking at the number on the tooltip. To put it simply:
A WAR's combo starts with a 70 TP ability, followed by the rest of the combo at 60 TP per ability, fracture at 80 TP. They can restore 400 TP every 120 seconds (2x Equilibrium at 60 second CD).
A DRG's combo starts with a 70 TP ability (both full thrust and chaos thrust combo), but it also has heavy thrust at 70 TP and Phlebotomize at 90 TP. They can restore 500 TP every 120 seconds (the CD on Invigorate).

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Originally Posted by Llus

Every mele class has a gap closer and moving out of an AoE is not hard to do. If you know the fight, you'll know when you need to use a gap closer and save it.

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But BLM has a gap closer to a friendly target.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

But BLM has a gap closer to a friendly target.

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IDK what that has to do with removing sprint TP cost, ranged doesn't need a gap closer to make up for a possible loss to a GCD on avoiding AoEs. They eat the GCD loss, avoid the AoE and go back to DPSing. Mele, eat the GCD loss, move out of AoE, gap closer and get back to DPSing. If you find you're having to sprint to avoid AoEs, then you're probably being greedy and hurting overall raid DPS anyway making your heals play catch-up when they could be either focusing a priority heal or DPSing as well. Same goes for casters that refuse to move out of an AoE because they're about to finish their cast. Eat the GCD loss and move on, stop being greedy. TP management on an extended fight is a completely different issue.

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Originally Posted by Nezerius

That's the entire point of the argument. Sprint used to cost TP in PvP, but then they removed the cost because it was unfair towards jobs that used TP.

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"Unfair" is quite subjective I think. I play Paladin and Bard in PvP and the changes surprised me. I'd even argue that I dislike them more for the extended cooldown that came with them since next to everyone had Enliven AND Invigorate to compensate for the loss of TP anyways.

Regardless, as has already been touched upon, there's a very clear difference between the two modes as PvE does not involve chasing enemies nor bosses that are running faster than you can jog. Throwing an odd sprint into the mix just makes avoiding AoEs all the easier, especially those tightly-timed ones that I always imagined were suppose to make you tense up with uncertainty as you watch the visuals disappear right before the damage is dished out. If sprint was made the norm for dodging a bunch of AoEs throughout a fight then they'd likely have to adjust the timings to force you to use it at certain times just to compensate for the lessened difficulty.... and aside from thereby losing your freedom over it by instead turning it into an unnecessary gimmick, I really don't think the devs ever intended it to be a prominent mid-battle feature.

Losing your TP is the penalty for having to use Sprint in the first place, having to move at all - sprint or no - is the penalty Casters have to face, I would imagine.

But that's just me, a non-raider talking.

as a noob, im just here still wondering why its an ability with CD in the first place. are the devs really that paranoid about travel? why cant it be a simple stamina system?

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Originally Posted by Mysticdraggon

as a noob, im just here still wondering why its an ability with CD in the first place. are the devs really that paranoid about travel? why cant it be a simple stamina system?

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I imagine it's a mixture of wanting:
- To keep it weak outside of general travel
- Wanting it to require little keystroke time
- Wanting something of an "all in" feeling

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

I imagine it's a mixture of wanting:
- To keep it weak outside of general travel
- Wanting it to require little keystroke time
- Wanting something of an "all in" feeling

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it just feels off and a lot different than the other stamina systems in general. it feels like it could be simplified. or, maybe from a different perspective, its too simple and could use more development.

that is not to say that your points are invalid, but its not impossible to develop a different system while keeping the same limits and function.

Positioning is a key part of every job. Tanks and melee maximise their dps through uptime on the boss and by minimising travel time to deal with mechanics/adds. Ranged and Casters benefit from minimising movement and dodging. There isn't a job in the game which couldn't take advantage of movement tools such as gap closers. You can't really argue that movement and positioning problems are specific to casters alone.

Instead of creating a new gap closer clone for every job that clamours for it, why not just re-purpose sprint? Remove the TP cost, give it a set recast, make it oGCD, and have it make you dash forward a fixed distance when you're in combat. You could even keep its out of combat functionality the same as before if you just want to run around town or something. If anything, casters will like it better because you're cutting down on travel time and it would be easier to squeeze between casts.

The TP cost for sprint in PvE is both balanced and a positive addition to the game.

The PvP change is not an indication that the skill is unbalanced in PvE. Skills get PvP-only balance changes all the time because these environments are so different. For example, Repose was nerfed for PvP, that doesnt make it overpowered for PvE. It's one of the more useless skills. In the context of PvP, sprint allows players to engage/disengage. In PvE, sprint is almost solely about repositioning.

It is balanced because melee characters have a front-loaded attack and can move while attacking. For example, assume you activate a skill, need to move out of an AoE, and move back.
Without Sprint:
Castor: interrupts cast, moves, starts casting, hits
Melee: attack hits, moves, moves again, hits

With sprint:
Castor: finishes cast, sprints, starts casting, hits
Melee: attack hits, moves, moves again, hits
(not to mention, the melee character has more survivability if they do get hit)

If you want to make the argument that the TP cost should be removed, it needs to be in the context of the PvE environment. What benefits would it have? pros/cons/etc?

Personally, I think it is good that sprinting is discouraged with the TP cost, because it adds several positive things to the game:
* Swiftsong and other movement speed increases have additional value.
* Healers can sprint ahead to pickup keys and unlock gates for their tanks.
* A pickup group is less likely to get split because of sprint activations and cooldowns.

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Originally Posted by Xyno

Good day

Dear SE, I think it is not right, that sprint uses all the TP. Magic classes can freely use it anytime and it really helps in many battles, but all physic classes cant use the sprint wherever they want, because they will not be able to attack have a cross cls skill which instantly restore 40% of their TP.

Please, rework the sprint mechanic

Thank you

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don't be fuzzy... it's okay the way it is : /

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Originally Posted by Xyno

Good day

Dear SE, I think it is not right, that sprint uses all the TP. Magic classes can freely use it anytime and it really helps in many battles, but all physic classes cant use the sprint wherever they want, because they will not be able to attack

Please, rework the sprint mechanic

Thank you

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Welp, looks like they agreed with you! This change is especially good for melee DPS who simply cant afford to waste TP to avoid close range aoes/mechanics AND be expected to churn out the deeps.

I'm all for removing TP costs for sprint.
In the latest raid tier we frequently saw mechanics that required all party members to position in certain spots, usually spread all over the field and not rarely with long ways to go. Example would be Inception in A12S, the boss isn't even targetable at that point, yet the melee and tanks have a far harder time to get into the correct postionions than healer and caster, who can use sprint. Effectively this forces classes who can't sprint to react and reposition far sooner than magic classes. And since the boss jumps at that point, not providing a target, all their fancy gap closing skills are useless to them.

Well they confirmed they're removing the TP cost from Sprint outside PVP as well, the OP got his wish and everyone argued for it to stay the same? SE says you're wrong. :P

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Originally Posted by Khalithar

Well they confirmed they're removing the TP cost from Sprint outside PVP as well, the OP got his wish and everyone argued for it to stay the same? SE says you're wrong. :P

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Careful what you wish for. It might be exactly as good as it sounds..... Or they may have added some other negative for balance reasons. Ex, some other sprint cost, changes to PBAoEs, etc

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Originally Posted by winsock

Careful what you wish for. It might be exactly as good as it sounds..... Or they may have added some other negative for balance reasons. Ex, some other sprint cost, changes to PBAoEs, etc

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They're probably going to have it work just like it does in PVP. 10 second sprint with a 20 second cd to be used at the right moment.

well, we got what we wanted, but now sprint takes a minute to cool down (40 seconds at the end of sprinting). didn't it used to be shorter or is my mind playing tricks on me.

EDIT: yep, it used to be shorter. they doubled the cool-down to compensate for the removal of sprint costing TP.

....why?

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Originally Posted by winsock

Careful what you wish for. It might be exactly as good as it sounds..... Or they may have added some other negative for balance reasons.

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Originally Posted by Mysticdraggon

they doubled the cool-down to compensate for the removal of sprint costing TP.

....why?

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Alot of ppl in the thread we're talking about the factors that impacted the old Sprint's balance. It was pretty clear it wasn't going to be the old sprint minus the tp cost if they were to change it at all.

The CD helps ensure skills like swiftsong (or whatever it is called) stay useful. Casters also got quite a bit of mobility CD and such help with the reduced sprint.

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Originally Posted by winsock

Alot of ppl in the thread we're talking about the factors that impacted the old Sprint's balance. It was pretty clear it wasn't going to be the old sprint minus the tp cost if they were to change it at all.

The CD helps ensure skills like swiftsong (or whatever it is called) stay useful. Casters also got quite a bit of mobility CD and such help with the reduced sprint.

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yeah, but that still does not answer such a simple question.

i honestly do not see how original sprint would break the game, nor do i see a reason for the devs to be so paranoid about it.

sure, its great for TP users, but gatherers, casters, healers, and new players did not deserve this nerf at all.

so how would 30 CD with now TP cost "break the game" THAT much.

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Originally Posted by Mysticdraggon

snip

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As I said, you'll want to review the thread.
IMO the biggest issue is because casters need to have better mobility cooldowns than melee to be competitive with melee. Not landing a GCD can cause terrible issues, which is why ACC was historically the most important secondary stat up to the cap. Gatherers dont matter very much because they can mount and mount speeds have increased. Other caster we're given additional mobility to compensate. Ex: rdm dual cast, whm CD reduction to skills like assize and benediction + the addition of DB and PI, BLM can triple cast and teleport back to LL, etc.