What Will Become of Dun Scaithe?

Dun Scaithe is a literal waste of space after the raid. It's original inhabitants necer got to the city, and its demon hosts are now gone. Are the adventurers really going to leave it? It's the size of a city state, and certainly not a complete ruin like the lost city of Mhach. Personally, I think that scholars could study it, and maybe even begin a new civilization. The only problem I see is that it is so isolated. Perhaps it could be a sky pirate city? I'd hate for it to fall into more monsters hands.

That really applies to a lot of things in the Sea of Clouds.

New housing ward?

I want Ishgardian Housing.

If, however, the teased new housing ward for 4.0 isn't Ishgard, I would take Dun Scaith.

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Originally Posted by ZhaneX

I want Ishgardian Housing.

If, however, the teased new housing ward for 4.0 isn't Ishgard, I would take Dun Scaith.

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You know, it looks kind of like ishgard, and since it's kind of it's own dimension, it could be instanced. Dunscaiths city area could just be the town.

Most of my FC seems to think it'll become the next housing area, though I'd be happy if it was just turned into a town akin to Idyllshire.

It'll probably be left to nature, with a few explorers visiting here and there.

I don't think populating an old demon's den floating on some obscure island is high on any settlers' list of priorities though.

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Originally Posted by CGMidlander

It'll probably be left to nature, with a few explorers visiting here and there.

I don't think populating an old demon's den floating on some obscure island is high on any settlers' list of priorities though.

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But I wanna make friends with demon senpai.

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Originally Posted by CGMidlander

It'll probably be left to nature, with a few explorers visiting here and there.

I don't think populating an old demon's den floating on some obscure island is high on any settlers' list of priorities though.

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So...cheap housing then? I'd take it, I'm sure the neighbors will become more friendly after a couple of stabs and blasts.

Just another wasted zone. So so many wasted zones in this game.

I made a post back in arr I think asking to make zones open after completion. Adding NMs or gathering spots. It's there, it's already designed, what's stopping them from making them open world zones or using them for something different later on? Such a dang waste.

This is prime real estate, you think people like the members of the syndicate aren't going to cash in on something like this? They can literally grab it freely and sell off the buildings and plots. Or someone isn't going to jump at the chance to create a whole new city they can be the leader of?

Also how are there enough air travel that sky pirates became a thing and no one noticed a giant, complete, flying city before now? Seriously?

Same way no one apparently noticed the landmass hovering above Dravania, the weird pillars of floating rock above Abalthia's Spine, or the ancient Allagan research facility surrounded by yellow-green clouds.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

Also how are there enough air travel that sky pirates became a thing and no one noticed a giant, complete, flying city before now? Seriously?

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Probably because nobody lived to tell about it

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/WbYHbKiHRiM/maxresdefault.jpg

There's this guy

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

Just another wasted zone. So so many wasted zones in this game.

I made a post back in arr I think asking to make zones open after completion. Adding NMs or gathering spots. It's there, it's already designed, what's stopping them from making them open world zones or using them for something different later on? Such a dang waste.

This is prime real estate, you think people like the members of the syndicate aren't going to cash in on something like this? They can literally grab it freely and sell off the buildings and plots. Or someone isn't going to jump at the chance to create a whole new city they can be the leader of?

Also how are there enough air travel that sky pirates became a thing and no one noticed a giant, complete, flying city before now? Seriously?

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I'm pretty sure no one is willing to migrate from Ul'dah all the way to the Sea of Clouds to live in a cursed floating city where until just now there were voidsent living.

The entire presence of the Five Races in the Sea of Clouds has been a small Roegadyn clan, an Ishgardian camp where people from the house no one likes get sent to when their careers are dead, and flighty sky pirates. It's not hard to imagine no one's actually bothered to go out far enough to find Dun Scaith, or that most laypeople would not want to go there even if we've made it 'safe'.

Cause no one ever migrated to hostile, far away lands with hopes of a better future? There are no refugees, everyone has jobs and stability, life in Eorzea is perfect as is.

Even taking rl factors outside of things, this is the exact opposite of what Eorzean lore tells us. Migration and taming of hostile lands is very much part of Eorzean history.

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Originally Posted by MicahZerrshia

Cause no one ever migrated to hostile, far away lands with hopes of a better future? There are no refugees, everyone has jobs and stability, life in Eorzea is perfect as is.

Even taking rl factors outside of things, this is the exact opposite of what Eorzean lore tells us. Migration and taming of hostile lands is very much part of Eorzean history.

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Yes, the poor refugees will TOTALLY have access to Airships, know about a pre-built city of Mhach that almost noone else knows about AND be able to beat back all the Voidsent there. Including being able to defeat Deathgaze before even getting there on there somehow gotten airships and then beat Diabolos and Ferdiad when they suddenly show up.

If ANYONE was going to actually take over that place to live in it before we got there it would have been the Garleans, if they even knew about it.

But Dun Scaith is not reasonable in even that context, for a myriad of reasons.
1) It would be incredibly expensive. Camp Cloudtop is expensive and as a military installation is already cutting costs on things such as food. Dun Scaith has no apparent military use and the people going there "for a better life" wouldn't much appreciate paying all this money and still eating hard tack.
2) Movement is not free or safe. Getting from Ul'dah or Limsa or Gridania to the Sea of Clouds would be expensive in itself. Why would a refugee who's already barely scraping by squander all that money to go someplace that doesn't even have any opportunities or infrastructure? Especially considering they are likely to die along the way as they can't just aetheryte port to Camp Cloudtop.
3) There is no reason for the Syndicate to invest in it. They would need to actually get a return on that investment. Refugees are poor so that's not likely to happen. And the rich don't need to move there because they already have their very nice Costa del Sols and mansions and such.
4) People are superstitious. Eorzea has actual real life demons who will kill you so in this case rightfully so. People are not gonna put themselves through so much financial and physical trouble to hang out in a demon's den unless they are of the reckless sort (ie your average adventurer).
5) Most people don't know the significance of Dun Scaith. Given the large stratification of knowledge of Eorzea's past, let alone the significance of Mhach, let alone the existence of Dun Scaith which isn't even common knowledge, people aren't going to see any need to preserve the place, especially given the cost and danger. Much easier to let nature handle it's course in some rock a thousand miles away since it's not gonna affect them any.

If anything, I can see the location of both Mhach and Dun Scaithe be kept a secret on the behest of Cait Sith. Or the location sold to the highest bidders like Rowena, Sharlayan scholars and maybe even the Thaumaturge or Conjurer's guild.

Also, despite killing the Voidsent, there still might be a possibility that Voidal rifts are present.

Does anyone want a residential district in Dun Scaith?

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Originally Posted by Zohar_Lahar

Does anyone want a residential district in Dun Scaith?

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Those place might looks more modern like Ishgard tho, so it's pretty good to live there imo.

I doubt we'll ever get areas for use that are part of earlier content, simply because in an MMO, there are always people who have not yet reached that part of the story.
If I'm a new player and join a FC at, let's say, lvl 28 and then teleport to the FC mansion...located in Dun Scaith, that will make no sense whatsoever because in my storyline, that place is still a void-infested place I don't even know about yet.
Yada yada story getting in the way of gameplay - whatever! There are limits to how much logic you can break.

I recently asked why we can't have Ishgard rebuilt, the war has been over long enough and we see NPCs doing repair work all the time (and Idyllshire has grown crazily in the same amount of time!),
and yet when I run towards the city gate, it's all still completely in scambles and freshly-injured knights drag themselves up the slope. Why? Because it would break the immersion if someone entered Ishgard who has not yet hit 3.3 and everything was all nice and dandy.

There are already places in game that have a different appearance and different NPCs depending on how you've progressed in the game. One easy example is the setting for the Moogle beast tribe quests - that area gets refurbished and built up over the course of the quests. All that really needs to be done is ensure that in "rebuilding" Ishgard, any place that is an obstacle to movement now needs to remain and obstacle after it's rebuilt, so that newer players don't see older players walking around on thin air or whatever. (Giant hole in the ground? After being rebuilt, put a potted plant there so people still can't walk there. That kind of thing.) Stuff like the crawling wounded soldiers are even easier to be rid of.

It basically boils down to how much SE is willing to invest in this kind of thing, and I'm guessing that this kind of thing would be pretty low on their list of priorities.

Housing in Dun Scaith, though, is another matter entirely. Dun Scaith is an instanced area. If they were to make Dun Scaith housing, it would be a separate instance from the raid instance. There'd be no danger of folks running Dun Scaith and passing by a ginormous Piassa-themed mansion with six Christmas trees in the front yard, because the Dun Scaith housing area is a completely different zone from the Dun Scaith raid area. It just is designed to look like Dun Scaith. Consider Haukke Manor. Just because Haukke Manor was involved in last year's Halloween event did not prevent players from continuing to run Haukke Manor for their Main Scenario progression. Folks didn't enter Haukke Manor (Hard) to find it filled with wacky decorations, either - the Halloween instance was a completely separate thing from the Haukke Manor and Haukke Manor (Hard) instances.

I don't actually think that Dun Scaith will become a housing area, but the fact that a raid takes place there is not an obstacle.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

There are already places in game that have a different appearance and different NPCs depending on how you've progressed in the game. One easy example is the setting for the Moogle beast tribe quests

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The difference with those is that they have the same conditions for everyone. Every player that has reached the area can move around in it. Every player can stand on the same things (for example, at the Moogle place you can't stand on the low, crushed foundation of the well, even though it looks like you should be able to - which makes sense, because players that have already done the questline have an entire fountain there).

You can do that kind of thing for a small part, like a pillar or two, or put a different texture on the floor depending on a player's story progress, but rebuilding an entire city while also keeping places that now have rubble have other things of exactly the same height in exactly the same position? That's way more effort than it's worth, which is why places with a lot of remodeling (like Mor Dhona and Idyllshire) grow the same for ALL players, regardless of their story progession.

But having an instance be something completely unrelated, taking all the meaning out of actually running it later on? That's ruining stuff for the newer players.
Haukke Manor was filled with imps and skeletons and all kinds of voidsent, just the way it is during the actual dungeon. Saying "We sneaked around in a haunted house but didn't fight the monsters there" and later returning once you hit lvl..27 or whatever it is, to now actually slay the creatures that during the event you could just sneak past because you were still just a little beginner? That makes sense within the narrative.
The same can't be said about seeing a freed and cleaned up Dun Scaith City being readily available to everyone only to THEN be told "Oh btw, go clean it up, it's this unknown place filled with monsters that no one has ever reached!". See the break in logic?

You can argue that adventurers who have been to that place liked the look of it and tried to recreate it on the ground when they built their new housing area, but the OP asked what will/should happen with the place itsself, not a copy of it or something like that. And people moving into content that will still be relevant to someone down the line does not make for a good..well, anything, really. Because anything that is publicly available there breaks the story if it's available before clearing said content.

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Originally Posted by Atoli

The difference with those is that they have the same conditions for everyone. Every player that has reached the area can move around in it. Every player can stand on the same things (for example, at the Moogle place you can't stand on the low, crushed foundation of the well, even though it looks like you should be able to - which makes sense, because players that have already done the questline have an entire fountain there).

You can do that kind of thing for a small part, like a pillar or two, or put a different texture on the floor depending on a player's story progress, but rebuilding an entire city while also keeping places that now have rubble have other things of exactly the same height in exactly the same position? That's way more effort than it's worth, which is why places with a lot of remodeling (like Mor Dhona and Idyllshire) grow the same for ALL players, regardless of their story progession.

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This... is exactly what I wrote in the second half of the first paragraph... Yes, this is exactly how they'd need to do it, if they were to refurbish Ishgard. Hence my potted plant example. Alexander is another example. Before you get the cutscene where he rises from the lake, there's a rock formation where his hand is going to be planted. Can't walk on it before, can't walk on it after. Ditto his other hand - and before you unlock the Creator, there's a chunk of rock you can stand on up in the shield where his head pops out.

And yes, I also wrote words to the effect of "way more effort than it's worth" (the stuff about what SE's willing to invest). So you and I are in agreement there, as well. The purpose of my writing was to show that it was feasible, not that it was likely to happen. So, yeah, you spent your first two paragraphs agreeing with and repeating what I just wrote.

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But having an instance be something completely unrelated, taking all the meaning out of actually running it later on? That's ruining stuff for the newer players.
Haukke Manor was filled with imps and skeletons and all kinds of voidsent, just the way it is during the actual dungeon. Saying "We sneaked around in a haunted house but didn't fight the monsters there" and later returning once you hit lvl..27 or whatever it is, to now actually slay the creatures that during the event you could just sneak past because you were still just a little beginner? That makes sense within the narrative.
The same can't be said about seeing a freed and cleaned up Dun Scaith City being readily available to everyone only to THEN be told "Oh btw, go clean it up, it's this unknown place filled with monsters that no one has ever reached!". See the break in logic?

You can argue that adventurers who have been to that place liked the look of it and tried to recreate it on the ground when they built their new housing area, but the OP asked what will/should happen with the place itsself, not a copy of it or something like that. And people moving into content that will still be relevant to someone down the line does not make for a good..well, anything, really. Because anything that is publicly available there breaks the story if it's available before clearing said content.

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Since you apparently think that the Haukke Manor example wasn't enough, how about Hullbreaker Isle? You know how new players running Hullbreaker Isle are all confused because this lost island has all kinds of Maelstrom-built fortifications on it, and training areas for battling wild beasts right? Of course you don't, because that doesn't happen. New players running Hullbreaker normal don't see these things. Hullbreaker normal and Hullbreaker (Hard) are two different instances. They exist comfortably side-by-side.

This game's Hard Mode dungeons show that SE is willing to update places to show what has become of them after the players initially ran them, and as far as I know, no players have any issue with this. Players find it perfectly acceptable to go back to Halatali and find that it's been cleaned up and converted into a gladiator-style training area and arena. There's no break in logic, because no one can see the clean Halatali until they've seen the dirty one. The same would be true of Dun Scaith.

So, the insistence that the OP must mean that they need to set up houses RIGHT THERE in the same area that newer adventurers are adventuring through is nonsense. A new instance patterned on the old dungeon, accessible only after the old dungeon is completed, is perfectly fine, and something that has already been done in this game time and again with EVERY hard mode dungeon. The only change in this case would be that the new instance is a housing area instead of a new dungeon.

The fact that you'd only be able to access Dun Scaith housing after completing Dun Scaith is the biggest reason why I don't believe it would happen. That's too restrictive a requirement - and if they simply ignored the requirement, and let folks march into Dun Scaith housing at level 5 (the same point in development where they could access the other housing areas), it would be simply ridiculous, just as you say. I don't think ANYONE asking for housing in Dun Scaith is suggesting you should be able to enter it at the same time you can enter any other housing area.

Seriously, though, housing that you can only access late in the game may be just what the doctor ordered for many of the problems facing housing. Folks complain about players buying houses with their low-level alts - well, now, they'd need to get their alts most of the way through Heavensward before they could buy up the properties. Ditto for RMT buying houses, if RMT buying houses is even really a thing.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

So, the insistence that the OP must mean that they need to set up houses RIGHT THERE in the same area that newer adventurers are adventuring through is nonsense. A new instance patterned on the old dungeon, accessible only after the old dungeon is completed, is perfectly fine, and something that has already been done in this game time and again with EVERY hard mode dungeon.

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You appearently do not understand me.
I never once said it should be the same instance, nor did I assume that's what the one who suggested making it a housing area meant.

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

The only change in this case would be that the new instance is a housing area instead of a new dungeon. The fact that you'd only be able to access Dun Scaith housing after completing Dun Scaith is the biggest reason why I don't believe it would happen. That's too restrictive a requirement - and if they simply ignored the requirement, and let folks march into Dun Scaith housing at level 5 (the same point in development where they could access the other housing areas), it would be simply ridiculous, just as you say.

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THIS is what I say is the problem. So congrats, you also just spent several paragraphs agreeing with me? xD

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Originally Posted by LineageRazor

I don't think ANYONE asking for housing in Dun Scaith is suggesting you should be able to enter it at the same time you can enter any other housing area.

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Housing areas are not exclusive to house OWNERS, though. Should non-Stormblood-ready players in your FC not be allowed to enter the area their FC house is located in until they eventually beat Heavensward?
That's completely ridiculous. Making them unable to participate in FC events taking place there, unable to use housing perks like crafting buffs and free chocobo feeding, unable to even meet up with FC members unless they specifically come to meet you in scrub city because you can't come to them?
No, I can never see that kind of thing happening. Especially not with SE's heavy focus on new players and their enjoyment.

(Btw, you already need to be lvl 50 and fullfill several other requirements - like rank 2 in your GC and so on - to buy houses right now, so people who say low-level alts are buying up all the housing plots are lying or oblivious to that requirement. If those requirements should be raised is debateable, but I'll consider that a topic for another day :))