SCH pet glamors?

I feel a bit cheated that SMN got Egi glamors and SCH didn't get nothing. I thought be cute to make Selene a red carbuncle or something

They gave use Egi glam because they screwed the SUM job, we have only 3 pets when we were supposed to get more (but IIRC they were afraid of balance issues) so it's their way to make it up to us for giving us a non pet SUM class ^^"

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Originally Posted by Celef

They gave use Egi glam because they screwed the SUM job, we have only 3 pets when we were supposed to get more (but IIRC they were afraid of balance issues) so it's their way to make it up to us for giving us a non pet SUM class ^^"

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Unfortunately, Summoner still essentially only gets three pet. We literally are just summoning Ifrit-egi, Garuda-egi, and Titan-egi with a different appearance as explained by the quest. It would also explain why the animations remain unchanged.

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Originally Posted by Blueyes

Unfortunately, Summoner still essentially only gets three pet. We literally are just summoning Ifrit-egi, Garuda-egi, and Titan-egi with a different appearance as explained by the quest. It would also explain why the animations remain unchanged.

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I know that, the Egi glam was introduced to give us the illusion we are real SUM because we'll have "plenty of pet" although it will, indeed, only be glamour :)

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Originally Posted by Celef

They gave use Egi glam because they screwed the SUM job, we have only 3 pets when we were supposed to get more (but IIRC they were afraid of balance issues) so it's their way to make it up to us for giving us a non pet SUM class ^^"

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They spent an entire expansion (citation needed) on this feature, only to give it to one of 3 pet jobs. Not giving it to SCH is wasting resources in my opinion, as they have severaly limited the audience of this feature. I still hold out hope that SCH gets it soon (shouldn't be difficult if the system is already in place), though we should voice our opinions on the matter so that the devs see it

We only just got Egi glamours, something they've implemented brand new.
Give them time and I'm sure Scholars will also get glamours for their fairies.

Summoners are accompanied by pets, Scholars by fairies.

Fairy glams, sure. Same options as Summoners, no.

Scholars already have fairies that actually look like fairies. They have face.

Summoners have glowing blobs. The glamour isn't a "new" model, they are just allowing us to revert to Carbuncle's appearance so that we have an actual character model with semi-defined features as a pet.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Same options as Summoners, no.

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You are right, but both should get carbuncle. SCH came from ACN too remember.

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Originally Posted by Darkstride

The glamour isn't a "new" model, they are just allowing us to revert to Carbuncle's appearance so that we have an actual character model with semi-defined features as a pet.

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The devs said they will be adding a new egi glamour every patch if they can, carbuncle is just the initial system being implemented.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

You are right, but both should get carbuncle. SCH came from ACN too remember.

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True, Scholar should probably be reworked as an advanced job at this point though. It has enough of its own identity to justify the split.

I wouldn't say you'd get carbuncle, but SCH might get glamour fairies later. Maybe they'll introduce them in ways like he carbuncles. Or maybe a SCH boss that uses a fairy, or could just be regular trash mobs. Would be annoying but nice to see a mob that has some of the stuff a SCH has, and get a dark fairy in return glamour wise.

We got our glamour because of how SMN wasn't designed, and the fact there were a ton of threads on it compared to actually fixing the problems. Though I wonder if they'll stick with the egi route, or find a way to upgrade them.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

They spent an entire expansion (citation needed) on this feature, only to give it to one of 3 pet jobs. Not giving it to SCH is wasting resources in my opinion

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I agree with you one the waste of ressources but my guess is that they might be afraid of SCH reaction.

If you get access to Carby like we do (and I agree you should be abble to, you are after all, ARC just like us), what will happen if they give us Shiva or Sophia glam but not to SCH ?
Some will understand SCH should not have access to because Egi are SUM part of the job but others will create hundreds of topics to whine that "we should have them too !!!!"

So basically, imho, they won't give this feature to reasonable SCH because of the "not reasonable" ones which is both a waste of ressources and sad for those of you who just want Carby :/

I feel cheated too everyday by SCH's. It's a shame that SE doesn't give me the fairies as glamour for my titan egi.

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Originally Posted by Celef

what will happen if they give us Shiva or Sophia glam but not to SCH ?
Some will understand SCH should not have access to because Egi are SUM part of the job but others will create hundreds of topics to whine that "we should have them too !!!!"

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So give SCH their own glamours. Phoenix, male fairies, recolours, moogles.

And as for lore reasons (spoiler for allied beast quest 2.0):

There was a sylph that became a human to blend in, there is no reason why the same technology couldn't be used to hide Lily from suspicion

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Originally Posted by Celef

They gave use Egi glam because they screwed the SUM job, we have only 3 pets when we were supposed to get more (but IIRC they were afraid of balance issues) so it's their way to make it up to us for giving us a non pet SUM class ^^"

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So screwed that they were the DPS of choice at several points over the last 4 years. Yes, totally screwed...

::rolls eyes::

Both come from Arcanist, Arcanist uses carbuncles. By all means use glamors for your Egi, but a) you have 3 things you can summon, and b) why would only Summoner be able to summon forth a carbuncle, when Scholar is just as much an Arcanist as you are?

If they give Scholars some form of glamour option for Eos and Selene then it either needs to be some form of carbuncle, or a skin/costume change for them. Either way, SMN is hardly 'hard done by', so stop claiming that you got the glamours as some kind of compensation for being a great DPS job with 3 pets which you found lack-luster.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

So screwed that they were the DPS of choice at several points over the last 4 years. Yes, totally screwed...

::rolls eyes::

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Imagine Summoner had come out in 3.0 instead of 2.0. Instead of Machinist we got Summoner, it's identical to Machinist except the turrets look like Ifrit and Garuda and the job quests go on about the mighty power of your fearsome "primals".

It would be a good class, sought after for raids, but it would be a pretty rubbish version of Summoner. Not everything is about the numbers.

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

So screwed that they were the DPS of choice at several points over the last 4 years. Yes, totally screwed...

::rolls eyes::

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Not talking about the class "power" as a DPS, talking about the class in itself, the way it was designed and how they screwed the summoning part in summoner.

::rolls eyes:: too

You can't call "Summoner" a class that gives you only 3 different pet to use and focuses on DoT, especially considering the background of SUM in FF history (juste take Yuna from FF10 for instance, 10 different Eons, each one with it's "personality").
That's not a SUM, that's, at best, a "kawaï necro" because SE does not want us to play with dead things while using diseases as our main way to DPS^^"

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Originally Posted by Celef

Not talking about the class "power" as a DPS, talking about the class in itself, the way it was designed and how they screwed the summoning part in summoner.

::rolls eyes:: too

You can't call "Summoner" a class that gives you only 3 different pet to use and focuses on DoT, especially considering the background of SUM in FF history (juste take Yuna from FF10 for instance, 10 different Eons, each one with it's "personality").
That's not a SUM, that's, at best, a "kawaï necro" because SE does not want us to play with dead things while using diseases as our main way to DPS^^"

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Sounds more like you are upset that you can't have the full size Titan at your right hand or Garuda at your left. Honestly, if SMN was implemented the way you appear to wish, the balance of jobs would be destroyed, not because of the job's power, but because of the ridiculous amount of effort that would be poured into that one job.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Imagine Summoner had come out in 3.0 instead of 2.0. Instead of Machinist we got Summoner, it's identical to Machinist except the turrets look like Ifrit and Garuda and the job quests go on about the mighty power of your fearsome "primals".

It would be a good class, sought after for raids, but it would be a pretty rubbish version of Summoner. Not everything is about the numbers.

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Except allowing players to summon real primals would break the lore and logic of the setting, it would also make SMN the only job to play since who would want to play anything else if there is a job that let's you bring forth a real primal at your command? I honestly think that sticking to that kind of expectation for Summoner is really unrealistic, and complaining about it now to defend a lopsided pet glamour, just comes over poorly - IMHO.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Imagine Summoner had come out in 3.0 instead of 2.0. Instead of Machinist we got Summoner, it's identical to Machinist except the turrets look like Ifrit and Garuda and the job quests go on about the mighty power of your fearsome "primals".

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SMN is nothing like MCH though

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Sounds more like you are upset that you can't have the full size Titan at your right hand or Garuda at your left. Honestly, if SMN was implemented the way you appear to wish, the balance of jobs would be destroyed, not because of the job's power, but because of the ridiculous amount of effort that would be poured into that one job.

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Not really the big ones, but at least more than just 3 to choose from if we keep that system, procs on my spells adding little ones for example, basically a gameplay based on the summons and not just me DoTing and using my egi abilities when up.

I used to call summoners class (in all games) "classe a bebette" in French wich you can transltate by....euh....class with a lot of minions maybe ? Because you have that feeling of having a lot of creature at your service, some of them being just the way your attack looks like (for example the witch doctor in D3 that through jars full of spiders at the enemy, it's just a simple attack but the spiders in it gives you that idea that you control the creatures) or being a gameplay mechanic (like WoW's warloc % of proking "adds" on the ennemy when using specific attacs)

I agree with on the fact it would be impossible to balance and so does SE thus we have Egi glam, a way to give us the illusion we have multiple choice and summons ^^"

Plus I don't see why we could not have bigger (not more powerful) Egi like in "It-Which-Must-Not-Be-Named" just for the look :)
http://www.nephilim-x.com/images/ffxi_zilss3_02.jpg
that's a pretty succub....Shiva :p
(consol limitation maybe ? I'm very bad when it comes to technologies so I don't know how powerfull they are^^")

This glams are pointless and such a waste of money and time.

That time and money should of been used in something more relevant tbh.

Would be cool if SCH fairies could be glamoured into imps would make it feel like a "dark" healer.

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Originally Posted by Mature

This glams are pointless and such a waste of money and time.

That time and money should of been used in something more relevant tbh.

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And gaming isn't a waste of time? What someone considers a waste of time might be valueable for someone else.

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Originally Posted by Mature

This glams are pointless and such a waste of money and time.

That time and money should of been used in something more relevant tbh.

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And I find it a waste of time when they created the feature to hide Gauss Barel, or the DK's dark aura, or when they say they'll work on ninja so people with bad connection can work their mudra properly (and when they developed WM for bards :p) because i don't play those jobs but hey, if it makes other players happy well, i'm ok with it

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

Except allowing players to summon real primals would break the lore and logic of the setting, it would also make SMN the only job to play since who would want to play anything else if there is a job that let's you bring forth a real primal at your command? I honestly think that sticking to that kind of expectation for Summoner is really unrealistic, and complaining about it now to defend a lopsided pet glamour, just comes over poorly - IMHO.

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I didn't say anything about summoning real primals, in fact, I've never said anything about summoning real primals.
The job only needs relatively minor tweaks to make it feel significantly more 'Summoner-esque' IMHO. Wouldn't even need to change the moment to moment gameplay much from how it is now.

I'd go into detail but not really sure it's the right thread for it.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

SMN is nothing like MCH though

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SMN is quite a bit like MCH in one way, neither really do much summoning ;).

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Originally Posted by Celef

Not really the big ones, but at least more than just 3 to choose from if we keep that system, procs on my spells adding little ones for example, basically a gameplay based on the summons and not just me DoTing and using my egi abilities when up.**snip**
Plus I don't see why we could not have bigger (not more powerful) Egi like in "It-Which-Must-Not-Be-Named" just for the look :)
http://www.nephilim-x.com/images/ffxi_zilss3_02.jpg
that's a pretty succub....Shiva :p
(consol limitation maybe ? I'm very bad when it comes to technologies so I don't know how powerfull they are^^")

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LOL, well, if the Egi looked anything like those (Shiva), I'd play an ice summoner a lot... ;)

There are two issues here for me, and they are separate.

1) the Egi are just not what people were expecting or hoping for, myself included. It looks to me that the designers were going for a mere representation of the named primals. I do think that the designs of the Egi could have been closer to a chibi version of the primal being summoned, along with a signature move for each.

2) Pet glamours. If this had been used to give Summoners improved skins for their Egi, like a more Titan like Titan, It would be nice and would not create the problem we have now. What I mean is that by using carbuncles for the glamours, it automatically raises a question about Scholars since they too are based on Arcanist. Since both Summoner and Scholar are based primarily on Arcanist, why are Summoners the only ones that can still summon forth a pet with the appearance of a carbuncle?

Had the Egi glamours simply been enhanced designs of the original Egi, along with additional ones in future, then I think Scholars might have still wondered a little about it. But because the system immediately uses colored carbuncles, when short of unqeuiping a soulstone, Scholars cannot summon their faithful carbies at all, this system creates a problem with Scholars feeling left out.

I honestly don't mind the "concept" of egi's but they should have spent more effort/time building them because they are plain ugly and only one is used because it's OP I hope in 4.0 they put it into their list of projects. And make them bigger its difficult to see them. (And ifrit is still broken plz fix him he sucks compared to Garuda.)

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Originally Posted by Kosmos992k

scholar issue

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I'll auto quote myself because lazy ^^"

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Originally Posted by Celef

I agree with you one the waste of ressources but my guess is that they might be afraid of SCH reaction.

If you get access to Carby like we do (and I agree you should be abble to, you are after all, ARC just like us), what will happen if they give us Shiva or Sophia glam but not to SCH ? (I even add "when they add them" cause they said they will someday)
Some will understand SCH should not have access to because Egi are SUM part of the job but others will create hundreds of topics to whine that "we should have them too !!!!" (Because pretty and they had access to Carby before)

So basically, imho, they won't give this feature to reasonable SCH because of the "not reasonable" ones which is both a waste of ressources and sad for those of you who just want Carby :/

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And i think they started by Carby just because not enought people available right now while Carby was already existing, whici makes me wonder why only those 3 when we already know about 5 in total with black and white ( #lovelovegimmegimme)

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Originally Posted by Brightshadow

And make them bigger its difficult to see them. (And ifrit is still broken plz fix him he sucks compared to Garuda.)

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Agreed on that, I keep loosing my Garuda when I use the "sit" command ^^"

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

You are right, but both should get carbuncle. SCH came from ACN too remember.

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What this argument misses is that the fairies are pretty well different pets entirely, while the egis are still basically the carbuncles. Emerald and Garuda are the same. Topaz and Titan are the same. With Ruby tacked on because Arcanist doesn't get an Ifrit-equivalent. So the glamour system so far is just admitting the egis were a disappointment to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Brightshadow

And gaming isn't a waste of time? What someone considers a waste of time might be valueable for someone else.

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Your example does not apply to the relevant topic. Pet glam is completely pointless useless and a waste of THEIR time and THEIR money . that could of been put onto something more USEFUL like give us a new Egi or fix the broken pets or make Titan more relevant or remove pets all together and use their skills as a SMN skills and not pets skills.

This Glamour NONSENSE (because that's what it is at the end of the day) doesn't do a thing to your basic skill/ rotation but to >colour and hide< something that needs urgent reviewing and looking into it rather than colour it blue.

I main Smn and this is something totally worthless.

The text that you have entered is too long (4309 characters). Please shorten it to 1000 characters long.

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Originally Posted by Hasrat

What this argument misses is that the fairies are pretty well different pets entirely, while the egis are still basically the carbuncles. Emerald and Garuda are the same. Topaz and Titan are the same. With Ruby tacked on because Arcanist doesn't get an Ifrit-equivalent. So the glamour system so far is just admitting the egis were a disappointment to begin with.

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I'll resist the urge to spell out why and how you have particularly bad taste and instead explain that you're not exactly correct on the Eos/Selene being substantively different from Carbuncles to the point where there'd be any incompatibility.

Eos has 3 animations. Spell charging (Embrace, Whispering Dawn), Embrace Casting, and a third Twirling Casting animation used for the execution of Whispering Dawn, as well as the instant abilities Fey Illumination and Fey Caress.

Selene also uses those same 3 animations. Selene is, in effect, already herself a Pet Glamour, honestly even more so than our newly released Carbuncles are for Garuda, Titan, and Ifrit.

Emerald Carbuncle has 4 animations. Spell charging curl-up (Gust, Downburst), Spell casting uncurl (Gust, Downburst), Shining Emerald's unique animation, and a "scratch behind the ears with hind legs" animation used in Backdraft.

Not relevant to SCH but worth mentioning, Topaz Carbuncle has 4 animations unique to it. Gouge makes up its Malee attack by way of a somersaulting tackle, Shining Topaz is a standing spin attack, Curl is a unique standing self-buff animation, and Storm is a slightly different variation on Gouge.

As you can pretty plainly see, Emerald Carbuncle clearly has enough animations already existing to be able to take the place of Eos or Selene, especially since those two are in fact pretty barebones as animations go.

I would however like to take a moment to address the outright silly comment you chose to close your post with, as it's a baffling mentality I've seen echoed about a fair bit in response to the likes of Egi and Egi Glamour.

The Egi Glamour system is no more "just admitting the egis were a disappointment to begin with" as the Clothing Glamour system is "just admitting that everything you wear in the game is ugly except the things I or you like." Egi Glamour is a thoughtful response to the fact that, had they introduced new Egis without some system to encourage Summon Rotation (that is to say, rotating between different summons during battle), we'd be in the exact same position we found ourselves in without additional summons. You know it, I know it, everybody knows it. For just about anything you do right now, Garuda-Egi is the go-to Summon for the job. A new summon without a reason to use multiple summons in a single encounter would only accomplish one of two things. It would either replace Garuda-Egi as the one-and-only Summon, or it would be markedly worse than Garuda-Egi and not see common use until a buff comes along and changes our situation to the one where it replaces Garuda-Egi. Even you must admit that neither of those are desirable outcomes.

Additionally, limiting 'new' Summons strictly to future expansions adding a Summon IV, Summon V, etc kind of sets a hard limit on what summons we could ever feasibly acquire. Like, at that point we'd be lucky to get anything beyond Leviathan, Ramuh, Shiva, and possibly but very unlikely a Bahamut or Odin.

Instead, a much more sustainable long-term idea was proposed. An idea to reduce summons to individual roles and leave their appearance up to the player. Yes, implementation of Egi Glamour has been extremely slow (taking until the penultimate patch of the expansion to make good on their promise) AND only starting with a pretty sparse offering (not even an Obsidian or Diamond Carbuncle, despite bothalready being perfectly present within the game), but I think it's a step in the correct direction. What this means is, in the future, we can potentially receive Egi corresponding to just about any Primal we encounter. And really, having been a SMN enthusiast prior to Heavensward, the idea of being able to pick and choose which Summons I use is more than I could have asked for.

Now the only long shot is whether or not we'll ever be graced with the majesty of a Remora-egi.

The fairies don't need glamours, they already look nice.

Egis on the other hand had many many complaints and I can understand why.

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Originally Posted by Adire

The fairies don't need glamours, they already look nice.

Egis on the other hand had many many complaints and I can understand why.

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Egis don't need changing, attitudes do.

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Originally Posted by Mature

Your example does not apply to the relevant topic. Pet glam is completely pointless useless and a waste of THEIR time and THEIR money . that could of been put onto something more USEFUL like give us a new Egi or fix the broken pets or make Titan more relevant or remove pets all together and use their skills as a SMN skills and not pets skills.

This Glamour NONSENSE (because that's what it is at the end of the day) doesn't do a thing to your basic skill/ rotation but to >colour and hide< something that needs urgent reviewing and looking into it rather than colour it blue.

I main Smn and this is something totally worthless.

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Go ahead and use a Glamour Dispeller on everything you wear, too. After all, it doesn't do anything to your basic skill rotation, so it's totally worthless. Don't forget to remove any dyes you have applied to your outfit or weapons, too. Worthless!

wait for 4.0, maybe then you could summon anima herself

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Originally Posted by Rawrz

In the live letter it was said:

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Q: What’s the status on the glamours for summoner’s egis?

A: After assessing the resources needed to make this happen, we discovered that we need an immense amount, so we are planning to release them one patch at a time. We’re working towards implementing them starting from Patch 3.4, so please hang in there a bit longer.

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Was SCH considered in part of this glamour system?

I know that the question was directly for summoners, but it's an opportune time to ask. Allot of scholars just want their carbuncles back. Fairies do glamour themselves in most mythology so I feel the lore would be flexible.

I understand this has been asked 1000 times, but I thought I'd ask again.

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That's was posted forever ago. No response so far

I remember from one of the Fan festivals that Yoshi-P said something about wanting to start with the Summoner class and give players the option of changing the skin of their Egi. This in time would be expanded into things like Shiva, Ramuh bahamut etc, if the playerbase would be excited about this of course. Then after that they would look at the scholar class but that was just speculation.

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Originally Posted by GMERC

As you can pretty plainly see, Emerald Carbuncle clearly has enough animations already existing to be able to take the place of Eos or Selene, especially since those two are in fact pretty barebones as animations go.

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Although I agree with you on that point I'm asking again : What will happen when they add other Egi glam that Carby to SUM but not to SCH ?
(real question, not trolling or anything so please if you answer give some arguments so we can all work this out together and show SE we can have a peacefull debat :) )
Carby is justified by the fact SCH and SUM are both ARC to begin with so yes, imho both should have access to Carby but we all know some of them will also want Shiva for example the day she's added to SMN, what should SE do about it ? give them access to all glam just like SMN while they are not SMN at all just to please everyone ?
The real issue is not with animation but with players reaction imo

I can understand why adding Carby to SCH is a tricky question for SE, even if, again, I agree they should ad least have access to it because shared summon in the begining but in the end, some won't be satisfied by just Carby, will want more and more ans will whine again and again :/

If I remember my lore correctly, the fairy is a (at least semi)sentient being with its own memories, desires, thoughts, etc.
If you gave the soul crystal to someone else they'd summon the same fairy as you once did.

Carbuncles and egi's are constructs, the crystal helps you summon and bind Ifrit and co, but if you gave the soul crystal away they'd be gone. The new summoner would have to bind new incarnations.

Doesn't seem right to make a thinking humanoid take the form of a glowing dog thing.

EDIT: Reading through the journal entries for Scholar seems to confirm, the fairy is an independent entity that slept within the soulstone for 1500 years. Your aether is probably what gives it substance, but you didn't make it like an Arcanist or Summoner makes their pets.

Theoretically though Scholars should be able to summon carbuncles instead of the fairy. Can't see that happening though :p.

Recolouring the Fairy's would be nice, that way I can colour coordinate my pet to my glamour :D
I don't think Scholars should have the Carbuncles though, if we did it would be really hard to tell who is a Scholar and who is a Summoner at first glance and would just lead to confusion.