Do Scholars use 'White Magic'

like the title says. what kind of magic do scholars wield. they depend on the magic of 'elemental' spirits and use their powers to grant succor and purify various taints. Their magic is similar but it just seems that sch magic pales in comparison (from what I've seen) to true white magic like in lost Amdapor (hard).

Could it be that sch magic was a developing magic before the plague hit?

No lore book ready, but I don't think they do. After all they deal "unaspected damage" which suggests non-elemental. They wield arcane magic. Whatever that might mean. Back in the days the three cities each had different magical arts, Amdapor had white, Mhach had black, and Nym had arcane. And they were all at war.

They use a type of spell casting called arcanima, which is distinct from both white and black magic.

As for whether arcanima was a new form of magic that the Nymian's used or were developing, I don't believe so. Summoning was first invented by the Allagans in the 3rd astral era at the height of their empire. 3000 years later, the Nymians used a derivative form of that magic when summoning their Fae. That it was compatible with arcanima (as well as the existence of summoners and arcanists) suggests that arcanima itself is either a closely related derivative form or even the same derivative form of Allagan summoning magic. Today's arcanists use what remnants of Nymian arcanima knowledge that remains.

Here's a pretty informative link about it:
http://ffxiv-roleplayers.com/showthr...0025#pid200025

I think there is some confusion with this. From what I understand, and I could be wrong, what defines a White and a Black Mage is in how they power their spells. Unlike most casters White and Black Mages power their spells by drawing Aether from the world around them rather than just relying on their own Aetheric reserves to power their spells. This is as far as we know apparently unique to White and Black magic (and possibly Red Mages).

When people talk about White or Black magic that is what I see it as. White magic is curative magic, empowered by the external drawing method and as such is capable of much more powerful spells. More power, more you can do with it. Same with Black magic and destructive spells. Using this definition then no, SCH don't use White Magic. However if we are saying restorative magic when we say White Magic then there are possibly similarities when you get down to a base Aetheric level. The method is still probably different since modern White Magic is based of Conjury while SCH arts are advanced Arcanima.


Actual use of White and Black magic is still extremely rare. In most cases its still considered Forbidden Knowledge. There is some good reason for this. Both forms of magic are highly prone to abuse and the consequences can be literally catastrophic.

Your question has been answered, I'd say. However, it feels like we're dancing around something larger.

In terms of Final Fantasy magicks, many of us are used to categorizing the spells themselves. If it cures, it's a "white" magic. Raw damage, it's a "black" magic. Buffs and debuffs might be "Green" or "Time" magicks, and so on. That doesn't seem to be the case in Final Fantasy XIV. Spells do have a few objective qualities; one being the elemental alignment. However, the names and categories given to spells seem to reflect an organic and changing set of traditions in the game. Geography and chronology tends to end up mattering more than anything else.

Think of it this way: if Cure is considered a conjury spell, and conjury was invented ~500 years ago to commune with the elementals, and an Allagan clone casts Cure... did the Allagans know conjury? Or did they know a magic very similar if not identical to conjury that was called something else?

Rather than say a scholar uses "white magic", it might be better to say that both scholar and white mage use some healing magicks. You wouldn't call Pepsi "a Coke", but you could call them both "colas". And no matter what the grandmothers of the world have to say about it, not every gaming platform is a "Nintendo".

The way in which a spell is cast, the energies that it uses, the effect that is has, and its power efficiency might overlap in one or all four ways with another spell. I bet we could play the role of the Sharlayan and break down all of the various schools of magic into more "appropriate" categories based on those conditions.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

In terms of Final Fantasy magicks, many of us are used to categorizing the spells themselves. If it cures, it's a "white" magic. Raw damage, it's a "black" magic. Buffs and debuffs might be "Green" or "Time" magicks, and so on. That doesn't seem to be the case in Final Fantasy XIV. Spells do have a few objective qualities; one being the elemental alignment. However, the names and categories given to spells seem to reflect an organic and changing set of traditions in the game. Geography and chronology tends to end up mattering more than anything else.

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Question: Would it be useful to look at the three healing classes' mana regenerative abilities and how they take in aether? These skills [Shroud of Saints(WHM), Aetherflow(SCH), and Luminiferous Aether(AST)] are simply given to us, rather than being explained in a class quest. While they all tap into external sources, I lack the sleep and energy to think too deeply about the where, how, etc.

One case that bothers me is Luminiferous Aether, which I may currently be misunderstanding is several different directions. Is it tapping into the general aether of the stars, or perhaps specifically The Ewer? On a more literal level, it could be simply the light of the stars, which is effectively solar energy? 0.o'
Just occurring to me now too, if Aetherflow taps into the aether network around Eorzea, and Shourd of Saints takes from local surroundings(?), how much harder would it be to channel to distant stars? Maybe Aetherflow and Luminiferous Aether are two sides of the same coin, but Luminiferous Aether is affected by celestial factors. Similar to the way the moon creates waves in the ocean.

Luminiferous Aether taps into the energy of the stars drawing power from the constellations and celestial bodies above Eorzea.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

Think of it this way: if Cure is considered a conjury spell, and conjury was invented ~500 years ago to commune with the elementals, and an Allagan clone casts Cure... did the Allagans know conjury? Or did they know a magic very similar if not identical to conjury that was called something else?.

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But youre also forgetting that cure doesnt exclusively belong to conjury. Amdapoor existed long before the rise of Conjury, and we know how they developed white magics in reaction to Mhach with the creation of black magic. So in truth its very very possible that White magic was taken from something much much older than Amdapoor, most likely even predating the Allagans.

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Originally Posted by Yiazy

But youre also forgetting that cure doesnt exclusively belong to conjury. Amdapoor existed long before the rise of Conjury, and we know how they developed white magics in reaction to Mhach with the creation of black magic. So in truth its very very possible that White magic was taken from something much much older than Amdapoor, most likely even predating the Allagans.

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The world may never know!

I wish I'd thought of this metaphor in the original post, but to illustrate what I meant, think of language.

A single word (it's unique, exact combination of spelling, pronunciation, definition, connotation, etc.) might not exist for very long at all. But those who knew that word carry its soul across time and space, where it gives birth to new combinations. The spelling changes, sections are added or removed, people change how it is spoken; perhaps it takes on an entirely new meaning or connotation. Perhaps only some of those facets are still valuable, perhaps invaluable parts are carried on forever. The root of the English word Gymnasium means "a place to be naked", but we understand it as a "place to exercise" because the people who gave birth to the soul of the word undressed for physical training.

I assume that spells are much the same. The soul of the spell lives on, but how it the incantation is spoken, what energies are utilized, how the mage wields those energies, and the power that spell is capable off all might change along the way, branching into spells with similar effects, spells with spells with similar names, spells with similar effects and similar names, spells that bear only the slightest hint that they were ever related to that original seed.

Whether or not any are "the same" spell ... the pedants will probably never stop arguing over that one.

With examples like Cure I personally think your probably looking at a situation similar to what you see a lot in real world Martial Arts. While many aspects of Martial arts are quite different there are a lot of similarities. For example, a lot of the grappling and choking techniques used by Jujitsu are almost identical to similar techniques you see in old Western Martial art Journals. The reason is simple. Mechanically its the most practical and efficient way to achieve the grapple/choke.

With spell casting it could likely be the same thing. Curative magics would be exceptionally valuable. Realistically there is probably only so many ways to efficiently manipulate Aether to create such magics. It wouldn't be surprising that people would develop methods of spellcasting that are similar since mechanically Aether works the same regardless of where you are in the world.

Is the magic that Garlean conscripts use Conjury? Maybe not exactly but I would think it very likely its a close relative.

Here is the thing about White Magic though which makes it stand out. Power. No other form of healing magic which doesn't use things like supportive tech would be able to generate as much Aether for a single spell, at least from a mortal. All that extra power means that White Mages would be able to perform spells and do things that were just literally impossible otherwise. For me this is why White Magic and Black Magic are more tied to the Aetheric Drawing method. Due to all that extra power they can do things that are simply impossible otherwise.

I wonder what a red mage will do to draw aether?

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Originally Posted by ChandraNoctis

I wonder what a red mage will do to draw aether?

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Wear dat pimp outfit. It draws chicks and aether. Like a magnet.

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Originally Posted by Anonymoose

A single word (it's unique, exact combination of spelling, pronunciation, definition, connotation, etc.) might not exist for very long at all. But those who knew that word carry its soul across time and space, where it gives birth to new combinations. The spelling changes, sections are added or removed, people change how it is spoken; perhaps it takes on an entirely new meaning or connotation. <snip>

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Bolded part is my emphasis, but take that + the book in Gubal HM about the Council of the Magi's decision to rename their Cure spells from Cure, Cura, Curaja, etc. to Cure, Cure II, Cure III, etc. for that exact scenario. Assuming some of the surviving Amdapori went back to the Shroud after the flood to take refuge in what became Gelmorra, or any part of the Shroud (after all, it was Hyurs that became Padjal) they would have had to change the way the magic worked, but kept the same effect of what they wanted.

The fairies, at least, seem to be based on Elementals.