DEV REQUEST: 4.0 job adjustments before Stormblood

So this might sound a bit silly, but given how we know that we're getting major tweaks and changes for various jobs, wouldn't it make more sense to allow players to get a feel for their current job before 4.0 so they would have a more comfortable footing going into the expansion rather than getting a good bit into the expansion to find out they hate how the job they've been playing before is now horrible to play?

The purpose of this would be to allow players to better understand what will happen to the jobs they normally play and give them a feeling for what job or jobs they would want to start off with so that they won't find themselves feeling as if they've been wasting their time leveling a job they used to like but has become less attractive due to the job changes. This is not something that was as necessary for Heavensward since there was not much change beyond new skills, but due to the emphasis of battle mechanic updates and job overhauls, I believe that earlier access for the players to at least the job adjustments on some level would provide a greater boon to players who want to make sure they can enjoy the game without feeling like they picked the wrong job partway through the starting storyline.

This isn't necessarily asking specifically for a 3.59 patch or any actual live implementation to bring the changes into the game early. This could also be something done through a benchmark program (like what was done for Heavensward) or an implementation of a simulator designed to test jobs (which could also double for a setup for job jump potions).

Yes, the new mechanics and job changes can be explained through live letters and other means, but even if each job is explained in every iota of detail--more so than they were for Heavensward--I still don't believe that this would be enough if the changes are as major as they have been claimed.

Again, the goal is to give players more adequate information on the job adjustments for players because those adjustments could make or break the current views of those jobs for players, which is not something I think players would like to learn midway through the leveling process.

Whilst I think it makes sense I think it's unecessary as any changes can be picked up by just going though the expansion.

If you find you don't enjoy the changes you play something else just like people had to do when BRD got WM/BLM got Enochian. These were two very drastic changes to two jobs that played very differently beforehand.

No time has been wasted leveling a job you've enjoyed playing at any point in time imo.

Ya, to be fair this game isn't like WoW where changing your class suddenly makes your character unplayable/takes the fun out of it. least in XIV if they changed a job to the point of making it less fun for you, you have the option of leveling another job with xp bonus. So even if you see that lv 60 as "boring" now you can at least level another job quicker than before.

i think a detailed explanation and video of all the changes would suffice.

while letting the player base have access to it would be cool, i think releasing it to us can be more troublesome than helpful, seeing as we are also getting now weaponskills and abilities as well. I'm sure they won't want to release them to us, but the battle revamps is probably being built around the new skills as well.

It would just be easier to let them release it along with the expansion, since im sure it wont be that hard to pick up on.

Or you could let them actually finish the expansion, and all of the job changes. Game development is fluid, and testing can bring back issues with game balance and job changes, and anything they add with the expansion can impact that. I would rather they give us the changes fully fleshed out and tested in the expansion, than get them early and have them need to be changed in the expansion.

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Originally Posted by Lambdafish

Or you could let them actually finish the expansion, and all of the job changes. Game development is fluid, and testing can bring back issues with game balance and job changes, and anything they add with the expansion can impact that. I would rather they give us the changes fully fleshed out and tested in the expansion, than get them early and have them need to be changed in the expansion.

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It wouldn't have to be right this second. They'd probably have everything done by no later than early April (if they haven't done it already) since the release is June 20, which means they could easily give us the fully fleshed-out changes a good bit before release.

Also in the cases of Wanderer's Minuet and Enochian, those did require changes midway through the expansion. Wanderer's Minuet simply wasn't strong enough of a bonus to warrant using it when it came out, and Enochian only factored in Astral Fire/Umbral Ice duration as long as the Black Mage stood completely still and didn't move at all, which was why Astral Fire and Umbral Ice had their durations increased by 2 seconds to compensate for having to move during a fight.

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If you find you don't enjoy the changes you play something else just like people had to do when BRD got WM/BLM got Enochian.

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Yeah, no one likes to do that. No one wants to be told that what they're playing is horrible and they need to go play something they don't want to. Every Bard I knew hated the thought of playing something else because it wasn't bard, and either quit the game or came back to the job once it got somewhat of a fix. Black Mages that I knew did have as much of an issue with Enochian, but Bards having to deal with Wanderer's Minuet early on had a much rougher time.

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No time has been wasted leveling a job you've enjoyed playing at any point in time imo.

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That's the point of all this: to ensure that players are on something they enjoy playing. This isn't about the past. This is about the future in this case.

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This is not something that was as necessary for Heavensward since there was not much change beyond new skills

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I actually know a few people who changed jobs by the end of Heavensward because of how the focus / rotations changed by level 60 so it may have been useful (in theory.)

Personally, knowing the skills before SB comes out will not really bother me. You know what would bother me? Getting my Red Mage to 70 and finding It gets awful, going back to dragoon and never touching RDM ever again. That would feel like i wasted my time. I feel like writing a changelog of some sort would be good. One for each class that details how the new skills work. They could post it some time before launch and it would not hurt SB in anyway for me. It might make it even better actually. Thats just my opinion though.

If potd floors get a level 70 adjustment, you will have a simulator/preview of every job at level 70 available right away, no leveling required.

i like live video to explain job adjustment i fear thing like NCE of star wars galaxies when people mention job adjustment this picture go through my head. have live video will still it.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

So this might sound a bit silly, but given how we know that we're getting major tweaks and changes for various jobs, wouldn't it make more sense to allow players to get a feel for their current job before 4.0 so they would have a more comfortable footing going into the expansion rather than getting a good bit into the expansion to find out they hate how the job they've been playing before is now horrible to play?

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I think the biggest issue is that the jobs are going to be adjusted primarily to be balanced at level 70, once they have their full tool kit.

It might be difficult for them to ensure that something that feels good at 60 post-changes, while lacking the 61-70 abilities/traits/etc, will feel just as good at level 70. It's very possible that the job and/or rotation at 60 won't be reflective of the job and/or rotation at 70. Just look at the differences in rotation for most of the DPS jobs between level 50 and level 60 for evidence of that.

I know I stopped playing bard, which had been my go-to DPS job in 2.x, once I hit 60, because it simply didn't feel like the same job with the new mechanics. Unless they'd spent a significant amount of time letting us play with the level 60 abilities at level 50, there would have been no way to know I was going to feel that way prior to leveling to 60.

They will show us animations and they will go into a little detail about the new jobs. When early access patching starts we'll datamine skill descriptions, but that's still a lot of room for Wanderer's Minuets to change up how a job plays.

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Originally Posted by Kazrah

This is not something that was as necessary for Heavensward since there was not much change beyond new skills...

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Enochian, Dreadwyrm Trance, Wanderer's Minuet, and to a lesser extent Blood of the Dragon say "Hello". >w>

Some of the issues I see with implementing 4.0's adjustments earlier:
-They would also have to adjust all the current fights to accommodate those changes
-Some of the adjusted skills might include mechanics and skills that we won't get until the 61-70 range, like how they retroactively added Aethertrail Attunements to some of ACN and SMN's abilities for Dreadwyrm Trance.

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Originally Posted by Ibi

I think the biggest issue is that the jobs are going to be adjusted primarily to be balanced at level 70, once they have their full tool kit.

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Although they probably will be balanced for 70, that still doesn't mean the can't warn the players about how vastly their jobs will change as soon as Stormblood starts. Yes, it will be different from 60 to 70 just like it was from 50 to 60, but that's not what I'm asking for. I'm asking for something more of a heads up of how things will be at level 60 when we start out in the new expansion.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

Some of the issues I see with implementing 4.0's adjustments earlier:
-They would also have to adjust all the current fights to accommodate those changes
-Some of the adjusted skills might include mechanics and skills that we won't get until the 61-70 range, like how they retroactively added Aethertrail Attunements to some of ACN and SMN's abilities for Dreadwyrm Trance.

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-If they know their game (which I suspect they do), there shouldn't be any need to change any fights to accommodate for that, and if they did have to, then something went horribly wrong.
-Thing about that is that those skills like burning Aetherflow stacks for abilities still worked at 50. The only difference was that you just don't get Aethertrail Attunement from it until you get the level required for Dreadwyrm Trance.

With all the mechanic changes, they still have to make sure the jobs work and have complete rotations (which don't necessarily have to be the current full rotations) at 60 just like they have for level 50.