Going agaisnt the grain , but I hope its ok

So quick question, so I was reading that the avg item level for the expert dungeons is 210, Im figuring that for the next ones it prob will only go up to like 230 or 220 max. The current ilvl for sophia the highest primal atm is 235, and for the last tier in Alexander is 225 ilvl I have a point to all of this its just a question.

So assuming I keep all my accessories the same rings, necklace etc, for each job can I get away with mix and matching my gear for the sake of glamour. What I mean is just now as Im leveling Its really annoying that my tanks wear the same gear like very annoying same for healers, dps I dont mind to much because I dont do much dps. But for instance can I wear different level pieces, for chest, pants, gloves, and head pieces and still be geared properly for any of this content I haven't done it yet so that's why I'm asking. Im hoping that as long as I keep max accessories, that I can get away with my other gear being in between levels 230 - 260 so each class can have its on gear identity instead of all wearing the same thing. Does anyone else do this are is it not a big deal to share the gear for most?

You'll probably find minmaxers who get specific pieces for BiS for every job they have, and you may see people glamouring their gear every time they switch to a different job that shares that main stat, but I think most players just equip whatever is highest on a given job and go.

I know for me, it's not that big of a deal. All of my tank jobs have the same Fending set assigned to them, and I've been able to find glamours for the axe, greatsword, and sword-and-shield that match (so in the fantasy, my character is literally just pulling out a different weapon).

The only argument about keeping lower-item-level gear equipped for alt jobs that I can see would be that it makes you play suboptimally, which, if you listen to some people here, is tantamount to murdering your teammates in cold blood.

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

You'll probably find minmaxers who get specific pieces for BiS for every job they have, and you may see people glamouring their gear every time they switch to a different job that shares that .

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Aesthetics is just a major part of the game for me , right now my warrior and drk are wearing the same gear I just find it super boring, same for my scholar and astro, they dont share a set with my whm because they are already level 60. Im also a crafter so Im hoping to be able to craft 250 gear , but I don't know how much different crafter gear is compared to the other options. I wish they would just allow you to get two sets of tomes gear that would solve the whole shared gear issue but i dont figure thats coming anytime soon.

i don't have enough inventory for that.

but i wouldn't care if your WAR was in Scripture gear, your DRK was in Creator Normal gear and your PLD was in melded i250 gear. even better if you raid and have 1) Savage gear, 2) Augmented Scripture gear 3) regular Scripture gear.

if you're going to gimp yourself below i240 that's just too vain.

You CAN do this, but you shouldn't. The loss in power is significant, and you're doing yourself and your teammates a disservice.

to say it right, accessoires have the least potency to your statwise performance. to give you an example, upgrading your tomestome chest piece from 260 to 270 will give you more gain than upgrading your whole set of accessoires from 260 to 270, depending on the secondary stats, also legs, weapons are even more potent in this and hands, feet and head are 2 accessoires worth.

For "expert" this wont do much to your performance by the "low" requirements, but in Extreme trials or Raids, especially savage, you will extreme underperform with just maxed out accessoires and all other so low you only get the average min. ilvl requirement. And don't forget every left side equipment gives you axtra VIT.

If you try to take this way of gimping your left side gear just for the look you can extremly underperform for your ilvl and in more difficult duties you can bring the wipe to your party especially by party wide heavy damage, cause of your lower HPs from your missing VIT. But if you are trying you should always keep all your gear above the average min ilvl

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Originally Posted by Legion88

but in Extreme trials or Raids, especially savage, you will hardly underperform with just maxed out accessoires and all other so low you only get the average min. ilvl requirement.

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it's not like people constantly switch jobs for Savage. my best gear is on SCH, it's not like anyone in my group knows what my AST or WHM set is.

Why not just use the glamour system?

It's pretty much fulfills vanity while allowing for maximum stat allocation...unsure why the debate of using lower ilvl gear instead of utilizing the glamour ability.

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Originally Posted by WeekendSoja

Why not just use the glamour system?

It's pretty much fulfills vanity while allowing for maximum stat allocation...unsure why the debate of using lower ilvl gear instead of utilizing the glamour ability.

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The very reason I want to wear different gear is because with the glam system, when you glam it just makes every jobs gear the same. like its currently doing for my warrior and drk, and scholar and astro. This shared glam system , is one of the worse features in the game to me if they are suppose to be different jobs then why do the have to wear the same gear with just a different weapon.

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Originally Posted by Jpec07

The only argument about keeping lower-item-level gear equipped for alt jobs that I can see would be that it makes you play suboptimally, which, if you listen to some people here, is tantamount to murdering your teammates in cold blood.

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No. I couldn't care less if your gear is at least adequate for the content. Anything else only means my patience with your will be less. Ironworks in The Vault? If you can actually maintain hate as a tank, it's all good. If aggro is bouncing all over the place and we wipe a couple times. I vote kick you.

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Originally Posted by SendohJin

it's not like people constantly switch jobs for Savage. my best gear is on SCH, it's not like anyone in my group knows what my AST or WHM set is.

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I didn't say anything from switching jobs and this is not just an example for savage, but also for other things, like people trying to get into duties with maxed out accessoires and extreme bad other stuff just to beat the average min ilvl cause they are to stupid/lazy to compare gain and cost...
For a numerical example:
1 shire accessoires 260 to 270 will bring you +6 points on your mainstat and +4 points on your secondaries in average
1 shire chest 260 to 270 will bring you +12 points on your mainstat, +6 on VIT and +10 points on your secondaris in average
1 shire weapon 260 to 270 will bring you +13 points on your mainstat, +16 points on VIT, +10 on your secondaries +1 weapon strength (~9 mainstat for damage)

so i have to retcon my previouse statment by chest and legs are worth ~3 accessoires upgrades, weapons 5+, head, hands and feet ~1.5 from the overall stats.
For just the output, chest and legs are worth 2 accessoires upgrades, weapons ~3-4, head, hands and feet ~1.2

In this example upgrading your weapon has the same worth or more like upgrading your complete set of accessoires and even just getting better chest/legs has more worth then getting 2 accessoires (while 2 accessoires are more pricey than 1 chest/legs)

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

No. I couldn't care less if your gear is at least adequate for the content. Anything else only means my patience with your will be less. u.

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Well I was figuring as I was lookin at the gear that shire would be most immediate goal, because I know about rng and drop rates for Alexander cause I have friends that do it. So I mean I really dont see myself forming a static and just spamming this content, unless it just proves to be something super fun, but most of my friends either have theirs are really dont care about the idea of raiding. So I was thinking not counting the Alexander 270 stuff that, I could go 260 shire, 250 hq crafted, and then 240 augmented gear, but I also could just go with two of the same crafted sets at 250. If I was luckly Id throw in some alex gear but most people I know only have a piece or two from there.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

The very reason I want to wear different gear is because with the glam system, when you glam it just makes every jobs gear the same. like its currently doing for my warrior and drk, and scholar and astro. This shared glam system , is one of the worse features in the game to me if they are suppose to be different jobs then why do the have to wear the same gear with just a different weapon.

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Than just redo the glamour when you make the change?

I have people in my static who take glamour more seriously the savage raiding...cause we only get together to clear everything once a week while these 3 change their glamour multiple times in a single day...so why gimp yourself when you can just redo the glamour?

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Originally Posted by Legion88

I didn't say anything from switching jobs and this is not just an example for savage, but also for other things, like people trying to get into duties with maxed out accessoires and extreme bad other stuff just to beat the average min ilvl cause they are to stupid/lazy to compare gain and cost...
)

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So with 3.5 you will be able to upgrade your gear to 270 as opposed to 260?

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Originally Posted by WeekendSoja

Than just redo the glamour when you make the change?

I have people in my static who take glamour more seriously the savage raiding...cause we only get together to clear everything once a week while these 3 change their glamour multiple times in a single day...so why gimp yourself when you can just redo the glamour?

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I dont exactly have a main I switch between all three tanks, and astro and whm, so I change jobs several times in any given day but I think Im understanding what you guys are saying the only reason I asked the question is from just reading what it says on eorzea database the differences in the gear stats didnt seem extremely different.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

Aesthetics is just a major part of the game for me , right now my warrior and drk are wearing the same gear I just find it super boring, same for my scholar and astro, they dont share a set with my whm because they are already level 60. Im also a crafter so Im hoping to be able to craft 250 gear , but I don't know how much different crafter gear is compared to the other options. I wish they would just allow you to get two sets of tomes gear that would solve the whole shared gear issue but i dont figure thats coming anytime soon.

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Use glamours they may have the same gear sets but the skins will be different.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

Well I was figuring as I was lookin at the gear that shire would be most immediate goal, because I know about rng and drop rates for Alexander cause I have friends that do it. So I mean I really dont see myself forming a static and just spamming this content, unless it just proves to be something super fun, but most of my friends either have theirs are really dont care about the idea of raiding. So I was thinking not counting the Alexander 270 stuff that, I could go 260 shire, 250 hq crafted, and then 240 augmented gear, but I also could just go with two of the same crafted sets at 250. If I was luckly Id throw in some alex gear but most people I know only have a piece or two from there.

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240-260 would be fine. I would suggest gearing any tank you fancy closer to 260 because you will have aggro struggles with highly geared DPS.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

So I was thinking not counting the Alexander 270 stuff that, I could go 260 shire, 250 hq crafted, and then 240 augmented gear, but I also could just go with two of the same crafted sets at 250. If I was luckly Id throw in some alex gear but most people I know only have a piece or two from there.

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There's also i250 Alex Normal gear.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

So with 3.5 you will be able to upgrade your gear to 270 as opposed to 260?

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yes and you can buy another 260 piece if you have the scripture. and there will be i260 from the Alliance Raid. 3.5 will give you many adequate options for alternate sets of the same role.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

No. I couldn't care less if your gear is at least adequate for the content. Anything else only means my patience with your will be less. Ironworks in The Vault? If you can actually maintain hate as a tank, it's all good. If aggro is bouncing all over the place and we wipe a couple times. I vote kick you.

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There's a very large difference between suboptimal and incompetent.

Some people are so impatient that even the idea of taking another five minutes in a dungeon is so offensive that they will attempt to eviscerate anyone who even hints at it. To them, asking permission for even an extra five seconds for any reason whatsoever is akin to asking permission to kill their firstborn. These are the extremely vocal minority.

Then there's people like you who are reasonable and cool (and generally in the majority), and don't mind taking some extra time, so long as you get the clear.

Neither type of person tolerates incompetence, but the majority can tolerate suboptimal play so long as it still works.

having 3 sets of gear for different glamour themes - say: i260 scripture, i250 creator normal, i250 crafted for your roles that share the same gear (say tanks or healers), is fine if you don't plan to do anything above expert roulette, but like for example as tank with 3 different glams (based on the aforementioned for DRK/WAR/PLD), if you want to try your hand at savage or ex trials you may find that one set drowns you in accuracy and parry (hello, scripture gear!) and the other has good stats but less than adequate accuracy... you will run into problems for those type of content and you will be forced to min-max your set pcs if you want to have an easier time.

but if all you're going to do is expert dungeons, diadem, potd, etc. and below it's all good ^^

but then there's also another problem, if you play other jobs/roles and have crafters leveled up, your armory chest is going to explode!

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Originally Posted by Astyrah

having 3 sets of gear for different glamour themes - say: i260 scripture, i250 creator normal, i250 crafted for your roles that share the same

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I have 4 retainers, and I will do trails and alexander but really with savage i kinda see myself doing it to just clear once so i can see what its all about and not really spaming it constantly for a ten point difference in item level. But my question is if people are just starting Alexander then what else would they be wearing other than scripture gear.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

my question is if people are just starting Alexander then what else would they be wearing other than scripture gear.

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they can wear the i250 crafted gear :) it's enough to get you thru all current (as of 3.4) content and up to a10s without much optimizing/minmaxing

you can have a crafter friend craft it for you, craft it yourself, or earn some gil and buy them

eventually we will also have the last 24man raid that would likely award i260 stuff so there's that too!

While I don't see anything wrong with your plan for lower tier content, if you do Savage or Extremes then make sure you put on your best gear regardless of what job you are. So if you typically run around with your shire gear on PLD and crafted gear on WAR/DRK but decide you want to do Extreme Zurvan on WAR/DRK - equip your Shire gear on it before you go in. Those types of content you need to be prepared to play to your absolute best.

Normal modes you can get away with pretty much whatever you want as long as you meet the ilvl requirement.

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Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor

Ironworks in The Vault? If you can actually maintain hate as a tank, it's all good. If aggro is bouncing all over the place and we wipe a couple times. I vote kick you.

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I always hate meeting tank at Vault who still using ironwork gear, especially ironwork gear on left side. It's just make those tank squishy and healer "might" need heals hard (or don't have DPS time) because squishy tank. Just IMO.

Don't listen to the don't gimp yourself argument. As long as you are meeting the item level reqs it's fine. You could sync yourself to the lowest ilevel if you wanted anyway so it doesn't even matter.

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Originally Posted by DaikiKiyoshi

Don't listen to the don't gimp yourself argument. As long as you are meeting the item level reqs it's fine. You could sync yourself to the lowest ilevel if you wanted anyway so it doesn't even matter.

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It's not really fine, I got a healer in Great Gubal Hard yesterday who had full 230 left and right slots but a 145 weapon... The run was far from fine.

Well, what you actually can do is: With weekly scrib gear upgrade you can buy the 260 pieces again and then give 2 roles a mix of 270/260. That is, if you have the scribs...
On the other side, with job-based gear it would be expensive to gear many jobs, too.

But if you also got some Alex pieces or a well melded crafted gear it's enough for 3 jobs. And alex normal will be uncapped next week, too.

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Originally Posted by Eul

I always hate meeting tank at Vault who still using ironwork gear, especially ironwork gear on left side. It's just make those tank squishy and healer "might" need heals hard (or don't have DPS time) because squishy tank. Just IMO.

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Depending on what ironworks we are talking about the augmented or normal. Because, if we look at just VIT alone between augmented and normal, a full augmented ironworks gives a total of 451 VIT vs 394 nonaugmented. The only other options available at the first time you run the Vault are Orthodox and the 56 Titanium set, which the Orthodox gives a total of 457 VIT, the 56 Titanium HQ gives 464, and NQ gives 414. So ya, nonaugmented ironworks might be pushing it, but augmented puts you right in the middle of the available gear sets. But no matter what the set that is available, the Vault is going to wreck everyone because the damage scale is much higher than any previous dungeon, kind of like how Brayflox was harder then any dungeon before hand as well.

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Originally Posted by Underdog2204

It's not really fine, I got a healer in Great Gubal Hard yesterday who had full 230 left and right slots but a 145 weapon... The run was far from fine.

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That's not a gear problem. That's a skill problem.

The fact that jobs that wear the same gear can't have different glamour without gimping their stats is a problem that the devs are aware of. They occasionally talk about how they'd like to change it, but doing so would require a pretty significant overhaul of the glamour system. If, as many people facetiously claim, "glamour is the true endgame", it's likely that this is a problem the devs are seriously thinking about, and we may actually get that complete overhaul someday.

For now, though, yeah, you either have to put up with looking the same on all of your healer/tank/mage jobs, or swap in sub-standard gear when you think you can get away with it for the sake of your alternate look.

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Originally Posted by DaikiKiyoshi

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Originally Posted by Underdog2204

It's not really fine, I got a healer in Great Gubal Hard yesterday who had full 230 left and right slots but a 145 weapon... The run was far from fine.

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That's not a gear problem. That's a skill problem.

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actually ilvl isn't everything, even if that healer had full i230 armor and accessories, having an i145 weapon means their weapon damage is significantly lower than what is required for the dungeon and weapon damage affects the healing potency so i can imagine the heals were not enough even if the tank was using cooldowns properly

They could always look at the how the fashion gear in Xenoblade Chronicles X was handled and apply it to sets while using a log that once spirit bounded would store the item's soul so that it could be used as a glamour anytime. And, it could save our inventory space too. Unless you just have to keep a collection or something.

I will 100% agree that it would be amazing to glamour by job and not by gear directly.

I will also say it is 100% a stupid idea to gimp yourself for the sake of it.

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Originally Posted by Astyrah

actually ilvl isn't everything, even if that healer had full i230 armor and accessories, having an i145 weapon means their weapon damage is significantly lower than what is required for the dungeon and weapon damage affects the healing potency so i can imagine the heals were not enough even if the tank was using cooldowns properly

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Okay, I'm sorry. I missed the part where it said it was Hard Mode. Using an iLevel 145 weapon in that situation would indeed be kind of dangerous. Still possible if you are a good healer but that's really really pushing it. My bad. In the case of the OP though (if I understand them right) every single piece of gear they would be using would still meet the min ilevel reqs for the dungeon. In that situation I feel it's fine. Abusing high ilevel gear to go in with one or more pieces that are horribly under leveled just for the lols or to challenge yourself is kinda not nice in a group of ransoms randoms.

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Originally Posted by Astyrah

actually ilvl isn't everything, even if that healer had full i230 armor and accessories, having an i145 weapon means their weapon damage is significantly lower than what is required for the dungeon and weapon damage affects the healing potency so i can imagine the heals were not enough even if the tank was using cooldowns properly

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Bingo ^^

Even normal pulls were a huge problem.

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Originally Posted by bswpayton

OP snip..

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Your issue is one of the biggest problems with the current glam system that hopefully gets revamped in 4.0. If your gear is unique, you have no choice but to use it for all the jobs of a particular role. The alternative is a sub-optimal gear set for you to glam. If you're leveling, you can use hand me downs and keep the other job(s) lower than the main one, but eventually, they will all be 60 unless you gate leveling.

Now, it can be argued that as long as you meet the minimum iLv you'll be ok, but I would personally feel like I don't even belong in that instance knowing I have better gear that I refuse to use due to aesthetics. Not so bad in casual content where no one will really care, but for the stuff that really counts, there is just no way I will even queue unless I am content with my build.

with all these glamour related threads including that other thread about removing restrictions, i hope SE community reps are watching and forwarding these concerns to the dev