Shatter complaints

Ice . It's annoying to constantly lose matches because of one gc hitting ice, while the other gc is full of battle highs and fevers but still loses. developers promised changes to this but nothing changed yet. Also about people I see in matches. They are so, so focused on hitting a 90% big ice with 4 casters while the other gc is at 960 points farming kills and about to win in a few seconds. A lot of people have no common sense and just go hit ice even if it won't help anything or the leading gc is about to win. . It's seriously annoying and demotivating for the people who actually do pvp in shatter instead of hitting ice. I don't even know how people like queuing for pvp only to go hit ice a whole match long. People even go in to suicide themselves inbetween 20 of the opposing gc's just to hit ice. I mean, I don't mind hitting ice, especially if it will give the win, but it's really boring to constantly hit ice, I always stop after one ice because I'm bored by already hitting one ice.

I hear your complaints, but I've said to many people before that the good and bad thing about Shatter is that there's no one way to win. If you're good and coordinated enough to farm kills to win, do it. If capping bases will gain your team the advantage, do that. And if it means hitting ice all match, you hit that ice and get the win. How you get it doesn't matter. Being adaptable and ready to switch tactics as necessary is everything. Sure it's bragging rights to have a team full of highs and fevers, and really high damage numbers, but if you lose, it means nothing. Similarly, if you try to rely on one strategy, but your opponents change theirs, again, you're setting yourself up for failure.

I get that ice perhaps awards far too many points, or that it's easy for one team to capitalize on the other two skirmishing constantly, but in fairness, many people show up to the chess match trying to play checkers all the while, and THAT is where the problem really lies. Thing is, before when the point goal to win was 1800 (in a 72 man setting), more often than not, once all the ice was gone, there was always the zerg on the 1st place team by 2nd and 3rd. Great for the sake of actually PvPing, but it was generally a total screw over for the 1st place team. So lowering the point value of ice isn't really the fix either.

im amazed you just noticed this problem.

It was always like that since first Frontlines. People were hitting Interceptor Drones and Nodes in Secure and there are a couple of titles for hitting these. Then there were Assault Systems in Slaughter which gave various buffs so people loved them.
But most new players have started with meaty Seal Rock (which was an exception to the formula) so returning of classical PvE objectives seems like no fun to them.
But SE adapts content for players of different skills. Hitting ice is indeed boring, bust many casual players love it because crystals don't fight back and you don't need any skills to deafeat it and likely win because of enormous points they give.

I didn't 'just' notice this problem, but I'm talking about the people who are all starting to pvp now because of the garo event, they have no idea what to do and always, always go hit ice while another gc is just about to win, they just don't understand that you need to push to the winning gc to stop them, instead of going to hit a 90% ice. And when I tell them about it they start complaining about me not hitting that ice.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

So lowering the point value of ice isn't really the fix either.

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I like Shatter for that, that you need to find balance between kills, ice and bases, but sometimes it just feels too boring. I feel like lowering ice points is a good thing since it'll allow for more fighting to get that first place. I personally liked the fights at the leading gc's base, they were fun and intense. But they didn't always lead to the leading gc losing, because people from the 2 other gc's still attack each other, whenever they see someone low they jump on them, which causes fights between the other gc's too. It's just sad that this is the 'normal' mode now because of everyone queuing for it instead of seal rock. Which is probably because of the white ads which is quite easy to obtain compared to other mounts.

I don't think anyone cares tbqh, they are there just for free tomes. Nobody reads the chat. Most are autoattacking while watching youtube/netflix.

They will start using their head only if they will get ZERO tomes and ZERO wolf marks for 2nd/3rd place.

Without any incentive to perform better they'll never perform better, why bother if 1st and 3rd place get the same amount of tomestones.

How is seal rock any different? You win by doing objective. Capturing node is a objective. Ice in shatter is a objective.

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Originally Posted by Kai_Lee

How is seal rock any different? You win by doing objective. Capturing node is a objective. Ice in shatter is a objective.

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In Seal Rock you don't have to hit ice, and you need to fight over a node, and usually the team that fought the best got the node. That's more fun than hitting ice. Sure, in Shatter you need to fight over who can hit most of the ice but again, especially big ice, takes so long to kill which is extremely boring.

basically to much pve in pvp that doesnt matter.

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Originally Posted by Kai_Lee

How is seal rock any different? You win by doing objective. Capturing node is a objective. Ice in shatter is a objective.

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The biggest difference is you capture and hold nodes in Seal Rock. It's not enough to just capture it, you've got to defend it (which I admit was arguably the most fun part). This promoted active combat, from both sides. Either you're fighting to cap it first, or you're fighting to keep it. Either way, you were fighting, and I understand the frustrations with Shatter seeming a bit more passive in that regard.

Still, you can't play Shatter like Seize, and vice versa. Nor should you. But objectives to win are, and always will be priority over kills.

I see all these issues, but at the same time... these objectives where everyone has to gather together to beat on an objective are where AoE debuffs like aetheric burst and holy spam shine. Pleasant change of pace from the usual healer gameplay.

I still miss classic Frontlines where WHM got to both debuff folks around the node, and had plenty of nearby cliffs to FUS ROH DAH and actually get kills.

I heard Aetheric Burst is really bad, has wrong description and reduces skill speed by like 0.01 second in practice. Maybe thats only in The Feast where nobody stacks skill speed.

And Holy spam... I'm always triggered by mindless crowd control spam, you can't really damage anyone with it, just immobilize for a few seconds, but they all will be stun-resistant when it'll be actually needed (like before limit break or Between the Eyes, so many fails because of that resistance). If you want to spam something, it's better be Repose.

While it can't come close to my hatred of Seal (any mode that allows you to win with 0 pvp by just standing at a safely placed node surrounded by teammates who can come up with every excuse NOT to engage), shatter and the mindless "Go beat up some icecubes at point X X" comes close.

I get that people want a little variety and twist in their pvp over simply mindless killing.....that an objective or two adds a little life and taste to a fight. But when it gets to the point that the pvp is forced into 2nd place in view of the objective...its no longer pvp.....its pve. Plain and Simple. And since the rise of Seal...too many times, Ive been getting blessedly wonderful teammates who can't say the 'Pull back, stop fighting, ice > fighting' lines quick enough, as if the only way to win was via non-combat objective. Oh ya...and 3 (really 2+) tank pts in shatter...because that lazer shooting, lala eating ice really really really needs to be stunned. Sorry, venting.

Really though...shatter mode needs to die as it is currently. Or simply fix it. Make kills give 2-3 times as many points as they do currently since PvP is the game type..not pve while crystals count for 1/2 as much as they do currently, if that much.


.....or just bring secure back with the addition of LBs/ high/fever.

Either way, come next patch, will be so wonderful to have cross server pfing options and being able to not have to deal with people only there for the objectives lol (...or pld/drks -cough*)

let pour some http://i.imgur.com/FflohQi.gif on your wounds maiboi

My preference in Frontline modes is something like:

1. Secure 72 player
2. Slaughter 24 player
3. Secure 24 player
4. Seal Rock 24 Player
5. Slaughter 72 player
6. Seal Rock 72 Player
7. Shatter 72 Player
8. Shatter 24 player

I don't think the RNG PVE spawn elements of 3.x Frontlines has done much favors. But that RNG element works 'closer to as intended' in Seal Rock than in Shatter, so that's why I prefer Seal Rock. IMO 72 player modes of Shatter / Seal Rock just don't perform like the 72s of Secure/Slaughter did for whatever reasons. The silver lining of Shatter / Seal Rock is those games complete faster than Secure, which I guess is overall better for queue times and grind (well, ought to be, but where the players go?)

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Originally Posted by Mirch

overused gif and sarcasm

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You took the time to post. Now how about perhaps contributing something relevant to the discussion?

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Originally Posted by Vaeria

But when it gets to the point that the pvp is forced into 2nd place in view of the objective...its no longer pvp.....its pve. Plain and Simple.

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PvP is a term used for when two or more non-computer controlled players compete against each other.
The mode Shatter is a mode where three teams of human players fight over objectives, gaining points to reach a point total to win the game.
This is akin to certain game modes present in other games like Domination and Capture the Flag where the objective takes priority over kills. I could get 100 kills and lose because my team and I captured the flag less/had less points than the other team. The mode isn't Team Deathmatch as much as you want it to be...

The objective is king in this game mode; kills help secure the objective when there are people around to contest. If no one's contesting, then it's free. Kills disable a player and prevents them from getting the objective.

Well said!

You know, they gave us a TDM mode before. It was called Borderland Ruins (Slaughter), and apparently everyone hated it.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

You took the time to post. Now how about perhaps contributing something relevant to the discussion?

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He did that on another thread I commented in as well and I don't even know that guy

And again, I don't really mind the objectives, I always try to go for objectives as well. But my main problem are a lot of people in Shatter. It's just that they are so tunnel visioned on ice that they think dps'ing a full hp ice will stop the 990 points gc from winning. People think they only have to hit ice and that's the only way to gain points or 'stop' a gc form winning. Every time I tell people that they either ignore me, open their big mouths or start pointing fingers out to me for not hitting ice. People need to know that you don't always have to hit the ice and you actually need to go fight a gc to stop them from winning.

You're right, and this goes back to my point about "there's no one way to win Shatter". Ice as an objective is important, but if a team is in the lead AND holding all 3 bases, you may want to send a few players to recapture a base or two, if only to slow down their point acquisition. Similarly, if you can directly engage and take down several of that team's players, you can deal a huge hit to their points. And of course, say you're 2nd place and last place decides to focus that leading team, leaving you to attack ice uncontested. . . take advantage of that.

I can't say it enough; there is no one way to win Shatter. You'll have to be ready to switch up tactics to suit the flow of battle or to counter a change in your enemy's tactics at any given time.

Can't a guy just put on some Beethoven and murder some ice, I'm offended by this post.

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Originally Posted by MisterAdri

But my main problem are a lot of people in Shatter.

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You can lead a horse to water...

Basically, the objectives are (for the most part) tolerable, but it just sounds like you're frustrated with people who lack situational awareness; no amount of SE fixes are going to help that without dumbing down the mode, and even then, those same people will find a way to ruin it if they haven't learned by then.

The biggest problem with shatter really is the 24-man fights with giant ice, because the ice HP does not scale with less people, and you can literally finish the game before the 2nd ice goes down. However in small ice 24-man maps, yes, you do have to play for ice since they are worth the points and go down reasonably faster. You actually need to play differently between large and small ice maps, because a team that controls all the bases while one or both teams chip away at a large ice for the entirety of 8 minutes or so can win with no actual points from ice. A lot of people don't understand that and latch on to the "must kill ice" stigma.

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Originally Posted by Odessium

Can't a guy just put on some Beethoven and murder some ice, I'm offended by this post.

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Make sure to go caster for it!

Everytime you enter the Shatter map, there needs to be a manditory CS with an npc where a ball and chain are attached to your leg, you're handed an icepick, and ff7- Corel Desert Prison music starts playing. 30 min que...to go put the fear of god in...some ice. ....Woo.