New Tanks - PLEASE look at this

I'm seeing so many new tanks just stop dead mid pull and leaving all the mobs facing towards the party. You need to keep your party safe, especially your casters/healers, this is your job! Run through the mobs, facing them away from your group. Tanking 101.

By facing mobs towards your group, you also force your melee to run behind them for their attacks meaning they could easily and accidentally pull more mobs than you were ready for.

Enemies should -always- face away from the party.

Please look at this beautiful guide someone made on Reddit.

Now you are making tanking more boring than usual.

Hey DPS, don't stand behind the mobs like christmas tree, move your ass to flank or behind.

Good guide. So many think tanking is just keeping hate and dpsing.

It's a nicely done mini guide with funny pictures :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saccharin

Good guide. So many think tanking is just keeping hate and dpsing.

---

And big pulls. don't forget the big pulls. we get kicked if we don't pull enough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fluffernuff

And big pulls. don't forget the big pulls. we get kicked if we don't pull enough.

---

That was sarcasm, right?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fluffernuff

And big pulls. don't forget the big pulls. we get kicked if we don't pull enough.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Balipu

That was sarcasm, right?

---

Not so sarcastic. When I first tanked these current experts I was in 3.0 upgraded creed gear (210) with the pre-relic stage weapon. I made small pulls because I wasn't geared enough and was told to pull more. A few experts later I made bigger pulls and got told to tank properly.

The forums are a vocal minority at best. Aint nobody gonna see this but endgame regulars and the few curious new players.

*Saves image*

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Balipu

That was sarcasm, right?

---

go look for the "I am not a mass pull tank" thread from a few weeks back. Most of the answers were along the line of "Hurr, well then I'm gonna be a douche and only spam one attack, durr!"
(Then again, what the forum says is entirely anecdotal at best. I personally only had a healer complain about too small pulls once in Brayflox normal)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by swiss_Momo

go look for the "I am not a mass pull tank" thread from a few weeks back. Most of the answers were along the line of "Hurr, well then I'm gonna be a douche and only spam one attack, durr!"
(Then again, what the forum says is entirely anecdotal at best. I personally only had a healer complain about too small pulls once in Brayflox normal)

---

Well I utterly despise large pulls when i go with my main (ninja). Walking behind a mob train for minutes then hacking at and endless pile of monsters is hardly fun. Especially if you have minimal AoE skills. Not to mention how much I love overlapping AoE markers. Uhh. As for the healer? Let him/her die a few times. You and you alone know how many mobs you can control at a time. And if you lose one, most likely the healer will die first.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Balipu

Well I utterly despise large pulls when i go with my main (ninja). Walking behind a mob train for minutes then hacking at and endless pile of monsters is hardly fun. Especially if you have minimal AoE skills.

---

DEATH BLOSSOM
DEATH BLOSSOM
DEATH BLOSSOM
Uhh, what's next?
Ah, right.
DEATH BLOSSOM!!!

Tbh, that's the reason I do ex roulettes with my Bard nowadays.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SilkaN

DEATH BLOSSOM
DEATH BLOSSOM
DEATH BLOSSOM
Uhh, what's next?
Ah, right.
DEATH BLOSSOM!!!

Tbh, that's the reason I do ex roulettes with my Bard nowadays.

---

Nowadays I am healing. Being a healer is fun. ONe heal here, one buff there, a deubb to that monster and dot to another one. I'm like a freakin strategist. A shame I like the lore of ninjas too much. Can we have a far east inspired healer job? Samurai maybe? Or just more fun mundra combinations?

I remember seeing that picture ages ago, still a really good reference guide. The Novice Hall for tanks goes over some of that but still falls short on the finer points, like positioning and what/what not to stand in.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Balipu

Nowadays I am healing. Being a healer is fun. ONe heal here, one buff there, a deubb to that monster and dot to another one. I'm like a freakin strategist. A shame I like the lore of ninjas too much. Can we have a far east inspired healer job? Samurai maybe? Or just more fun mundra combinations?

---

I wish there was a job similar to rogues without the whole Ninja aesthetic. All other jobs have nice looking artifact and PvP gear, but the Ninja ones look like crap imo.
But oh well, I am playing a Final Fantasy game after all.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Balipu

Well I utterly despise large pulls when i go with my main (ninja). Walking behind a mob train for minutes then hacking at and endless pile of monsters is hardly fun. Especially if you have minimal AoE skills.

---

True, ninjas' AoE pales in comparison to a monks and especially casters, but they are still fairly efficient at it after the recent buffs. Open up with a Katon, then Kassatsu into Doton, and spam Death Blossom. Katon again if Doton hasn't fallen off yet (otherwise refresh it), and throw an Armor Pierce combo at one of them to keep Huton up. It all does quite a bit of damage, I never have a problem AoEing when I queue into Expert on my own NIN.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SilkaN

I wish there was a job similar to rogues without the whole Ninja aesthetic. All other jobs have nice looking artifact and PvP gear, but the Ninja ones look like crap imo.
But oh well, I am playing a Final Fantasy game after all.

---

What you are asking for is pretty much the ninja we have now. Most of the gear doesn't look like ninja gear at all and mundras are pretty much discouraged because of GCD clipping. Outside of doing the class quests i don't really feel like a ninja. That's why i'm going to main a healer in SB most likely. Although the red mage might be too fabulous to ignore.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hakuro89

True, ninjas' AoE pales in comparison to a monks and especially casters, but they are still fairly efficient at it after the recent buffs. Open up with a Katon, then Kassatsu into Doton, and spam Death Blossom. Katon again if Doton hasn't fallen off yet (otherwise refresh it), and throw an Armor Pierce combo at one of them to keep Huton up. It all does quite a bit of damage, I never have a problem AoEing when I queue into Expert on my own NIN.

---

The problem is it's freaking boring especially if the number of mobs is in the double digits. Aso for Doton, most tanks avoid them like the plague. I actually commended a tank for not moving monsters out of the doton circle.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Balipu

...and mundras are pretty much discouraged because of GCD clipping.

---

...What? Huton and Suiton (Trick attack) are both very much encouraged and they most certainly clip the GCD. Well maybe not huton because it should already be up and maintained... but sometimes you just auto-pilot and it goes away.
the only mudra that's really discouraged is Raiton and thats because it's going up against fuma which does not clip and actually has very comparible DPS to raiton. Raiton is discouraged without Foe's or kussatsu, but mudras are not. Please use your mudras.
Doton and Katon are both much higher potency in AoE so clipping isn't really as relevant to that when you only really have death blossom

For the ranged mob: YES PLEASE.
Also, when it is not possible to pack ranged mob (which is rare), please WHM, you have FLUID AURA which is the only skill that bump in the game, USE IT :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Balipu

mundras are pretty much discouraged because of GCD clipping

---

...are you sure you mained a ninja?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Arutan

Also, when it is not possible to pack ranged mob (which is rare), please WHM, you have FLUID AURA which is the only skill that bump in the game, USE IT :D

---

Also MCH has Blank, and Garuda-Egi has Shockwave, both are bump skills. While positioning Garuda-Egi to bump properly can be awkward, MCH should definitely be helping knock strays back into the pack!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hakuro89

...are you sure you mained a ninja?

---

I am. And I did not care much about GCD clipping till I ventured into the DPS forum to talk about what changes I want to see for ninja in SB. They pretty much called me a n00b for not realizing that any mundra that needs more than one button (so all of them beside fuuma) is a huge risk at best.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Balipu

I am. And I did not care much about GCD clipping till I ventured into the DPS forum to talk about what changes I want to see for ninja in SB. They pretty much called me a n00b for not realizing that any mundra that needs more than one button (so all of them beside fuuma) is a huge risk at best.

---

Venturing into those forums you're going to find a lot of number crunchers that really don't care about anything short of min/maxing their dps as high as it will possibly go, and you really don't need to do that. That entails tunnel visioning, something really only Monks can get away with in practice during raid. Ninjas are a lot closer to a utility class than Monk or Dragoon, having been given skills to either raise/lower/redirect enmity, and restore TP, or provide a slash debuff for themselves and the tanks if a WAR isn't present. And it goes without saying that Trick Attack is an invaluable asset, giving the whole party a brief 10% damage boost every so often (spread across 8 people it adds up a lot). Take what that forum tells you with a grain of salt, I never even go there for information or to talk about what I'm playing, because you'll always be wrong there. I've been maining Ninja since its release, and never once have I had anyone tell me I was doing it wrong or that my DPS was lacking, far from it.

Thanks, Hakuro. I appreciate that. It is true that suiton+trick/sneak takes a lot of buttons to launch but it hits like a truck. A huge Allagan truck. And it's also one of the most ninja things I'm allowed to do.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Balipu

Thanks, Hakuro. I appreciate that. It is true that suiton+trick/sneak takes a lot of buttons to launch but it hits like a truck. A huge Allagan truck. And it's also one of the most ninja things I'm allowed to do.

---

i love using sneak attack in low levels, but its a shame it shares a CD with trick attack... that makes using sneak attack worse than trick attack 100% of the time. the frontal requirement is kinda sketchy too, when you consider boss cleaves....

but as I said before, as far as GCD clipping goes...
you need huton up, and that will clip if it falls off.

Suiton grants you a TA. trick attack is always a gain for yourself and your party, and suiton will also clip.

Katon doesnt actually clip that terribly because its only 2 mudras

Doton clips pretty bad, but makes up for the potential loss if it's hitting enough targets

Hyuton clips, but... binds in pvp. I've never pvp'd as ninja, so not sure quite how used it is

Raiton clips, but does the higest potency... however, the loss in min/max DPS makes it lose to fuma (i think you lose like 1-2 DPS using raiton vs fuma? something like that?)

Raiton needs foe's requiem and/or auto-crit to be better than fuma after clipping (i think it was mentioned somewhere where raiton with these effects is ~7dps gain vs fuma?)

Fuma is just all-around the best go-to for mudras in single target without a bard around.

alot of the time you're using your other mudras... the only time i would think you'd be "forced" into fuma is tank and spank boss encounters. even then, you can use raiton as well. it's such a marginal decrease(2 whole dps when we're in the 2ks now?) overall, that if anyone really kicks a stink over it, then they are...well.... those people tend to just be unpleasant in general so might just deserve the boot.

Funny thing about Fuma is that it is the longest range ninjutsu but to buff it up enough to make it hit close to raiton you need dacing edge on the target, so you need to be closer than with Raiton. I think it would be better for Fuuma to replace Dagger throw as a trait and maybe get a bonus to damage based how far you are from the enemy. Hyoton is basically a pvp skill so I wouldn't mind moving it up there. And voila, we have four onused mundra combinations to fill with new skills without taking up action bar space.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fluffernuff

i love using sneak attack in low levels, but its a shame it shares a CD with trick attack... that makes using sneak attack worse than trick attack 100% of the time. the frontal requirement is kinda sketchy too, when you consider boss cleaves....

but as I said before, as far as GCD clipping goes...
you need huton up, and that will clip if it falls off.

Suiton grants you a TA. trick attack is always a gain for yourself and your party, and suiton will also clip.

Katon doesnt actually clip that terribly because its only 2 mudras

Doton clips pretty bad, but makes up for the potential loss if it's hitting enough targets

Hyuton clips, but... binds in pvp. I've never pvp'd as ninja, so not sure quite how used it is

Raiton clips, but does the higest potency... however, the loss in min/max DPS makes it lose to fuma (i think you lose like 1-2 DPS using raiton vs fuma? something like that?)

Raiton needs foe's requiem and/or auto-crit to be better than fuma after clipping (i think it was mentioned somewhere where raiton with these effects is ~7dps gain vs fuma?)

Fuma is just all-around the best go-to for mudras in single target without a bard around.

alot of the time you're using your other mudras... the only time i would think you'd be "forced" into fuma is tank and spank boss encounters. even then, you can use raiton as well. it's such a marginal decrease(2 whole dps when we're in the 2ks now?) overall, that if anyone really kicks a stink over it, then they are...well.... those people tend to just be unpleasant in general so might just deserve the boot.

---

Doton is amazing if a mob stays in it for the entire duration, given that it has much greater overall potency than Katon. And just as you said, the more targets in it the bigger the numbers get.
After the buff to mudra recast time in their attempt to help alleviate lag issues, they made Raiton feasible. Now it only clips a small fraction of a second, such a minuscule difference in dps brings it down to personal preference really. You can use either one, it's nearly impossible to notice unless you're crunching the numbers on paper.

I myself prefer to use Raiton, the only time I ever use Fuuma is to hit something from a long distance I couldn't reach with Raiton.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hakuro89

I myself prefer to use Raiton, the only time I ever use Fuuma is to hit something from a long distance I couldn't reach with Raiton.

---

^This + when Dancing Edge / Storm's Eye is active.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Saccharin

Not so sarcastic. When I first tanked these current experts I was in 3.0 upgraded creed gear (210) with the pre-relic stage weapon. I made small pulls because I wasn't geared enough and was told to pull more. A few experts later I made bigger pulls and got told to tank properly.

---

Always ask. Its not insulting to ask if a healer is ok with big pulls. Also keep in mind of what group comp you have. 2 dragoons will have a hard time aoe bursting large mobs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kurogaea

Always ask. Its not insulting to ask if a healer is ok with big pulls. Also keep in mind of what group comp you have. 2 dragoons will have a hard time aoe bursting large mobs.

---

but if i stop to ask, then flaming arrows and shadowflares get dropped and people have little tantrums about it :c

Healers and DPS can move too. If you see a tank that isn't turning around, there is nothing stopping you from moving yourself.

I am pretty new and just started up again.

I started a Warrior, as that was what I played a few years ago (only got to about level 40ish) and I have to say, people in dungeons are MEAN!

I always keep the group moving, don't go AFK ever, pull multiple groups ONLY if the healer is DPSing more than Healing and I have at least one defensive up to counteract the initial damage burst. I line of sight ranged mobs, use AoEs as I run in to drag them into optimal positions for the group ... and I still have been yelled at in almost every dungeon I have run so far in the last week.

Either I don't pull enough, or not fast enough, or I am too squishy (I am doing the dungeons at level, not sync), or I roll need on tank gear ... because I need it ...

I am really starting to see why the FFXIV community is so starved for tanks, you people are horrible to them! (well, not YOU people, but the Duty Finder community in general)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kindread

I am pretty new and just started up again.

I started a Warrior, as that was what I played a few years ago (only got to about level 40ish) and I have to say, people in dungeons are MEAN!

I always keep the group moving, don't go AFK ever, pull multiple groups ONLY if the healer is DPSing more than Healing and I have at least one defensive up to counteract the initial damage burst. I line of sight ranged mobs, use AoEs as I run in to drag them into optimal positions for the group ... and I still have been yelled at in almost every dungeon I have run so far in the last week.

Either I don't pull enough, or not fast enough, or I am too squishy (I am doing the dungeons at level, not sync), or I roll need on tank gear ... because I need it ...

I am really starting to see why the FFXIV community is so starved for tanks, you people are horrible to them! (well, not YOU people, but the Duty Finder community in general)

---

This is generally true. However, you have to understand, they aren't complaining because you are a bad tank. They are complaining because they have some twisted backwards logic that dictates complaining validates their own perception of their alleged skills. A great many people are stuck in the emo middle school mentality that it's cool to complain and to say that everything sucks. Heaven forbid that they be caught admitting they like something or had fun once in a while...

The best way around this is to run with at least one more friend (preferably three). If the random person is complaining, vote kick them on the grounds of harassment. Your friend(s) can accept, and *po0f*! Emo middle schooler gone! You only need 2 people, which includes you, to succeed a vote kick.

The best way to get the random complainer to shut up, is to get your friend to speak up on your behalf (with you doing the same for them if/when the situation arises). Most people will feel far less brave about complaining when they realize others are not on their side. Don't be afraid to use that wonderful tool of Vote-Kick.

http://i.imgur.com/sTm7wSB.png

You'll be amazed how much more power you have by simply taking one buddy with you into Duty Finder...

there should be a guide like that for dps to , like dont stand in front of mobs and eat cone attacks :P

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Khemorex

there should be a guide like that for dps to , like dont stand in front of mobs and eat cone attacks :P

---

Or for any ranged caster: No need to stand in melee range and eat all aoe-

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kindread

I started a Warrior, as that was what I played a few years ago (only got to about level 40ish) and I have to say, people in dungeons are MEAN!

---

I always find it perplexing to see posts like this, as my experience in duty finder has been completely different. 95% of the time, folks are neither hostile nor friendly - it's just a quiet run from start to finish with little or no communication. Of the remaining, where people actually talk, folks are typically friendly. It's only once in a very rare blue moon that I run into a bad egg.

On the topic of going AFK - please be sure that you let your group know that you are going afk. Also, if you believe you're going to be gone for a long time (longer than, say, five minutes) let them know, and encourage them to vote kick you if that is unacceptable. Never start a run if you think there's a good possibility you're going to be called away for a long period of time while in the dungeon. Unexpected things happen from time to time, and that's fine - but there's really no excuse if you waste everyone's time by entering a dungeon only to afk for a half hour because you need to pick up your girlfriend from work or whatever, and knew ahead of time that that was going to happen.

If you feel like you're being abused, remember that you are a tank. Due to the scarcity of tanks, they need you more than you need them. More than any other job, as a tank if you attempt a vote kick of the harasser and it fails, you have the freedom to say, "I've had enough of this. I'm out." and drop the duty. Yeah, you'll have a 30 minute penalty, but when that's up you can dive right back in, whereas a DPS doing that will have to tack on another twenty minutes or more waiting in queue. Meanwhile, the folks you left behind in the dungeon will be lucky if they get another tank in that same thirty minutes, and that's assuming the healer didn't bail seconds after you did. Harassment is never okay, whether toward a tank or a dps or a healer, but victimized tanks have more power than anyone else to do something about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by LineageRazor

snip

---

Well my data set is very limited at this time. As of my last post I think I had run 4-5 dungeons total. As I said every one of them had at least one person that was a jerk to me.

Last night I ran 2 more, one of them had a DPS that decided to lead the group, pulling mobs and then started yelling at me because I was not taunting off him ... I don't even have taunt yet ...

The other dungeon was the first time I had a decent group. We got through it very quickly, even though the DPS was rather low. There was very little talking, but when there was it was something positive.

BTW I always start a dungeon by saying, "I am a new tank, please bear with me and I learn the dungeon."

Not sure what you meant with the AFK part of your reply .. I said I never go AFK. I always make sure I am good and ready before I queue up. It's a pet peeve of mine when someone goes AFK in a dungeon that generally only takes 20-30 minutes.